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What keeps the offense from begin elite

  • ImaMod
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Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
ok lets take the qb out of it

out of all the offenses you see in history of nfl

how many offenses (or defenses) have been elite when they implement so many new offenses so often (every year) let alone a new offseason

i would love an answer

Great point dude. We need continuity. You cant just master an offense in one year and expect to be elite right away. Harbaugh said it himself that it will take 2 to 3 years for the players to master his offense.

You cant expect us to be elite when we have a different offense every year
  • teeohh
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Alex
Im just curious. So one of the main reasons our offense wasnt very good in a lot of your eyes, was that we didnt have continuity and time in the offense. Well you guys who keep saying that are also the same guys saying that we need to upgrade our WRs.

Well wouldnt that mean we wouldnt have continuity? Wouldnt that mean these new WRs would still need time in a new offense? I swear its a vicious cycle of excuses/reasons why our offense isnt very good. When will it end?
11
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
11

Whoops, I clicked "Post This Reply" early on accident.

It was supposed to read:

"11 men learn a new offense at their own pace, and must have time to learn their roles, and what to expect from the people around them. They will need extended time in the system before we can point to any one player as a weak link to the overall unit, other than obvious physical/athletic shortcomings."
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Im just curious. So one of the main reasons our offense wasnt very good in a lot of your eyes, was that we didnt have continuity and time in the offense. Well you guys who keep saying that are also the same guys saying that we need to upgrade our WRs.

Well wouldnt that mean we wouldnt have continuity? Wouldnt that mean these new WRs would still need time in a new offense? I swear its a vicious cycle of excuses/reasons why our offense isnt very good. When will it end?

we need time but our WR arent exactly world class brett swain and hastings ssaw time because of injuries

an UNDFA and swain a castoff who was sitting on the couch till week 6 or 7 when we picked him up

and continuity is in terms of playbook and system
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Im just curious. So one of the main reasons our offense wasnt very good in a lot of your eyes, was that we didnt have continuity and time in the offense. Well you guys who keep saying that are also the same guys saying that we need to upgrade our WRs.

Well wouldnt that mean we wouldnt have continuity? Wouldnt that mean these new WRs would still need time in a new offense? I swear its a vicious cycle of excuses/reasons why our offense isnt very good. When will it end?

we need time but our WR arent exactly world class brett swain and hastings ssaw time because of injuries

an UNDFA and swain a castoff who was sitting on the couch till week 6 or 7 when we picked him up

and continuity is in terms of playbook and system

Your first two lines are irrelevant in terms of continuity and time in a system.

Your last line is exactly the point I was making. These new WRs that you and others want to bring in will have ZERO continuity in terms of playbook and system. So once again, there will be a built in excuse for having a subpar offense in 2012.
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Im just curious. So one of the main reasons our offense wasnt very good in a lot of your eyes, was that we didnt have continuity and time in the offense. Well you guys who keep saying that are also the same guys saying that we need to upgrade our WRs.

Well wouldnt that mean we wouldnt have continuity? Wouldnt that mean these new WRs would still need time in a new offense? I swear its a vicious cycle of excuses/reasons why our offense isnt very good. When will it end?

we need time but our WR arent exactly world class brett swain and hastings ssaw time because of injuries

an UNDFA and swain a castoff who was sitting on the couch till week 6 or 7 when we picked him up

and continuity is in terms of playbook and system

Your first two lines are irrelevant in terms of continuity and time in a system.

Your last line is exactly the point I was making. These new WRs that you and others want to bring in will have ZERO continuity in terms of playbook and system. So once again, there will be a built in excuse for having a subpar offense in 2012.

We currently have 2 WRs and Joe Hastings. We need some receivers, and it would be cool if they were good at football.
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Im just curious. So one of the main reasons our offense wasnt very good in a lot of your eyes, was that we didnt have continuity and time in the offense. Well you guys who keep saying that are also the same guys saying that we need to upgrade our WRs.

Well wouldnt that mean we wouldnt have continuity? Wouldnt that mean these new WRs would still need time in a new offense? I swear its a vicious cycle of excuses/reasons why our offense isnt very good. When will it end?

we need time but our WR arent exactly world class brett swain and hastings ssaw time because of injuries

an UNDFA and swain a castoff who was sitting on the couch till week 6 or 7 when we picked him up

and continuity is in terms of playbook and system

Your first two lines are irrelevant in terms of continuity and time in a system.

Your last line is exactly the point I was making. These new WRs that you and others want to bring in will have ZERO continuity in terms of playbook and system. So once again, there will be a built in excuse for having a subpar offense in 2012.

How are the first 2 lines irrelevant to time in a system?
Swain was picked up 6-7 weeks into the season, and Hastings was brought up from the practice squad IIRC when Braylon was released. They are perfect examples of having no time in a system. When your missing your starters due to injuries and you have no one currently in the depth charts to bring up to take over the starter position it becomes an issue within the WR core because you don't have enough people within that core, with enough familiarity with the new system to make your receivers anything more then bodies on the field. So I do agree to a certain extent, that WR's aren't the total issue, depth is. I also believe that we do need to upgrade our core with someone to take over Braylon's spot. Because Swain or Hastings do not belong anywhere other then a practice squad for now, I don't think Kyle is quite ready for starter duties, and we need a receiver that will force just as much attention as Vernon does.
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Im just curious. So one of the main reasons our offense wasnt very good in a lot of your eyes, was that we didnt have continuity and time in the offense. Well you guys who keep saying that are also the same guys saying that we need to upgrade our WRs.

Well wouldnt that mean we wouldnt have continuity? Wouldnt that mean these new WRs would still need time in a new offense? I swear its a vicious cycle of excuses/reasons why our offense isnt very good. When will it end?

we need time but our WR arent exactly world class brett swain and hastings ssaw time because of injuries

an UNDFA and swain a castoff who was sitting on the couch till week 6 or 7 when we picked him up

and continuity is in terms of playbook and system

Your first two lines are irrelevant in terms of continuity and time in a system.

Your last line is exactly the point I was making. These new WRs that you and others want to bring in will have ZERO continuity in terms of playbook and system. So once again, there will be a built in excuse for having a subpar offense in 2012.

How are the first 2 lines irrelevant to time in a system?
Swain was picked up 6-7 weeks into the season, and Hastings was brought up from the practice squad IIRC when Braylon was released. They are perfect examples of having no time in a system. When your missing your starters due to injuries and you have no one currently in the depth charts to bring up to take over the starter position it becomes an issue within the WR core because you don't have enough people within that core, with enough familiarity with the new system to make your receivers anything more then bodies on the field. So I do agree to a certain extent, that WR's aren't the total issue, depth is. I also believe that we do need to upgrade our core with someone to take over Braylon's spot. Because Swain or Hastings do not belong anywhere other then a practice squad for now, I don't think Kyle is quite ready for starter duties, and we need a receiver that will force just as much attention as Vernon does.

Look, you are missing the point. Yes, Brett Swain and Hastings had no time in our system. I agree. The point I was making was that the new WRs we bring in ALSO will have had no time in our system. So like I said, in 2012, we will once again have a built in excuse for the offense being below average. Where do the excuses/reasons end?
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Look, you are missing the point. Yes, Brett Swain and Hastings had no time in our system. I agree. The point I was making was that the new WRs we bring in ALSO will have had no time in our system. So like I said, in 2012, we will once again have a built in excuse for the offense being below average. Where do the excuses/reasons end?

they were learning mid season

VD and others said it took them about 12 weeks and that was while preparing for teams

the new WR will ahve more help from the players not to mention what is it? 8- weeks of offseason i believe? and full exposure to preseason games where unlike the preseason games we had last year will have a foundation of the system in place and only have to worry about learning the playbook and dont have to worry about gameplanning or film watching of other teams

it will go by a lot quicker its like last year they were trying to learn calcullus without learning algebra first no matter how good your teacher is if you dont have a foundation you will struggle

we have a foundation now the newer players will learn the system a lot faster than what it took last year
[ Edited by 49ersalldaway126 on Feb 28, 2012 at 10:07 PM ]
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Look, you are missing the point. Yes, Brett Swain and Hastings had no time in our system. I agree. The point I was making was that the new WRs we bring in ALSO will have had no time in our system. So like I said, in 2012, we will once again have a built in excuse for the offense being below average. Where do the excuses/reasons end?

But in the situation we bring in an experienced FA receiver they will take less time learning the system, as would if we were picking up a high end QB (which wont happen). I am not missing your point, I get it, but we do have one large blank spot on our roster with Braylon not being on the team, that require immediate attention.
Last season it was in this order
1) Wide outs who could not gain separation
2) A QB who does not like to throw into coverage, can't blame him who likes int's?
3) A "Bell Cow" that is past his prime.

I think we can and will address all of these points this offseason!
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Look, you are missing the point. Yes, Brett Swain and Hastings had no time in our system. I agree. The point I was making was that the new WRs we bring in ALSO will have had no time in our system. So like I said, in 2012, we will once again have a built in excuse for the offense being below average. Where do the excuses/reasons end?

What point are you trying to make? Everybody except, apparently, you understands that this O is evolving. I don't see any problems with reasons in this context. Why do you feel the need to post this? Are you hoping that we won't draft anyone at all or something? Or is it just an argument.

Why must an explanation be an excuse?
The biggest barrier the past season was the lockout. Whatever chance we had to develop an "elite" offense (whatever that means) went out the window.

Roster-wise, the needs are pretty obvious:

A #1 WR is at the top of the list. Harbaugh's decision to bring in Edwards, a former high #1 pick demonstrated the need. Edwards was a failure.

Morgan and Crabtree have, at best, played like #2/3 WRs. Part of that was due to the lockout, the other part was the injuries. Ginn is a returner who sees field time only when other WRs are injured.

RG is staffed by a journeyman who just does not have the strength to move strong DTs.

Gore is past his prime.

VD took a long time to learn the system. (Blame the lockout) I still need to see him consistently make correct reads and adjustments before I consider him "elite." Just being able to outrun a safety or LB does not come close to making him a top TE. He needs to complete the package. (Drafting Fleener would not surprise me at all.)

Alex Smith has not yet learned to trust his receivers.

Most of these things can be cured with a full off-season/training camp. However, the WR situation will only be solved via draft/FA. The long-term answer at RB is not on the roster at this point. (I expect a RB at some point in the draft.) We can hope that Kilgore will solve the RG need but considering he did not see the field last season despite the obvious need, that does not seem likely, hence a guard in the draft, perhaps even with the #1 pick seems the most logical.

Did I miss anything?