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Goldson more important than rodgers......

  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,538
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by buck:
No matter what???

Think you are being a bit dogmatic.

Explain to me how Shawntae Spencer is more important to the team or has more value on the open market than either Dashon Goldson or Donte Whitner.

I think that corner backs have, in general terms, more value than safeties, but not always or not not matter what.

were talking in terms of franchise tagging

for example if a team wanted to franchise a qb it is like 15 million no matter if it is tom brady or jamarcuss russel

The thread is, in my opinion, much broader than the question of franchising.

You are correct about the franchise price for a position.

So, if that franchise cost were the sole determinant of comparative value or worth, you would be correct.
Why has Aaron Rodgers (very uncommon spelling) superseded Rogers as the common spelling of that name in peoples minds. Strange

Anyway. You can argue about the individuals themselves if you believe that Rogers wont maintain level of play or Goldson wont etc. But is it really arguable thad you'd much rather have a Pro Bowl corner than a Pro Bowl Safety if you had to pick one or the other?
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
~ He's younger than Rogers.
~ Rogers will be 31.
~ Dashon is 27.
~ Rogers play will drop off soon. Sooner than people think.
~ S is cheaper than CB on the salary cap. A huge CB salary is a salary cap buster.

In that context yes he is more important. Somebody will probably overpay for Rogers this offseason. I hope it's not us. I wouldn't mind him back at a reasonable price.

Not one of those reasons even remotely validates thinking a good safety is more important than a good CB.

And LOL @ trying to pass off your opinion as fact. You have no clue if Rogers will decline soon. There's also no guarantee Goldson will maintain his level of play. He was decent his first year as a starter and absolutely awful in 2010. He hasn't maintained any level of play (good, bad or otherwise) for more than one year.

You know Goldson wasn't fully healthy in 2010 right? Rogers will decline. CB's rely on speed. Somebody will overpay him. He's not going to be 37 and a top CB. Not going to happen. It would be nice to have him back. I just wouldn't overpay. I never said a safety is more important than a CB. They are both important. But Goldson is younger and therefore more valuable. You don't overpay an old player with a few top years left.

Walt Harris was our best CB at a higher age. Look at Charles Woodson. And you remember Darrel Green?

Its not always about how fast you are. If your technique is better you can cover faster players. The older, wiser guys have better technique and have seen every route known to man.

Charles Woodson declined a lot in terms of speed and physicality. He just has good ball skills so he gets int's. But he's not as good. Green declined too but was still pretty good. Those guys are exceptions. Not the rule. A huge deal for a CB above 30 is not a good idea. A reasonable deal is.
I think we would be smart to let rogers walk. Hes not getting any younger, and he really didnt help much in the playoffs. I really think if we resign rogers to a long term deal, its going to be another walt harris situation. Goldson Is young, and hes a play maker! He deserves a long term deal. I think Culliver could step in to rogers spot and progress in to a really good corner. GO NINERS!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Shoot I can't even remember when the last time the 9ers ever drafted a Safety in the 1st round.

How are Safeties easier to find than CB's you ask......didn't we get Goldson in the 4th round???

How about Zack Bronson who went undrafted, or Tony Parrish in free agency, Donte Whitner thru free agency, Mark Roman (sure he wasn't a Pro Bowl but coaches started him 6 years straight).

dana hall
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,106
Originally posted by Allx9er:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Shoot I can't even remember when the last time the 9ers ever drafted a Safety in the 1st round.

How are Safeties easier to find than CB's you ask......didn't we get Goldson in the 4th round???

How about Zack Bronson who went undrafted, or Tony Parrish in free agency, Donte Whitner thru free agency, Mark Roman (sure he wasn't a Pro Bowl but coaches started him 6 years straight).

dana hall

LOL 20 years ago, how'd that work our for us.
Uhhh this is the easiest decision you can make as a GM.

a. Sign or franchise young safety whose wage demands are significantly less and the player will last longer in the league.
b. Sign older cornerback whose wages will be higher, with less upside and less years of service.

C'mon do we really have to think about this?

Sign the young safety first. If you can get the corner into a reasonable contract great, if not let him walk.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,106
Originally posted by gavindirishmen:
Uhhh this is the easiest decision you can make as a GM.

a. Sign or franchise young safety whose wage demands are significantly less and the player will last longer in the league.
b. Sign older cornerback whose wages will be higher, with less upside and less years of service.

C'mon do we really have to think about this?

Sign the young safety first. If you can get the corner into a reasonable contract great, if not let him walk.

Easier decision.

Franchise the young Safety on Feb. 20th, which will only be 6 mil in 2012. Feb 21st neg. a long term contract with Rogers.
How about sign both?
Originally posted by 1swift:
Why has Aaron Rodgers (very uncommon spelling) superseded Rogers as the common spelling of that name in peoples minds. Strange

Anyway. You can argue about the individuals themselves if you believe that Rogers wont maintain level of play or Goldson wont etc. But is it really arguable thad you'd much rather have a Pro Bowl corner than a Pro Bowl Safety if you had to pick one or the other?

would you rather have Nnamdi or Revis or Polamolu or Reed?
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by 1swift:
Why has Aaron Rodgers (very uncommon spelling) superseded Rogers as the common spelling of that name in peoples minds. Strange

Anyway. You can argue about the individuals themselves if you believe that Rogers wont maintain level of play or Goldson wont etc. But is it really arguable thad you'd much rather have a Pro Bowl corner than a Pro Bowl Safety if you had to pick one or the other?

would you rather have Nnamdi or Revis or Polamolu or Reed?

Revis > Polamolu > Reed > Nnamdi (last season, may switch positions for Reed and Nnamdi this coming year due to Reed's age)
Hope we tag Goldson soon (he'll be more quaint to taking one compared to Carlos, who's looking for a complete 3+ year contract so he can settle down, while Carlos has been living in the bay for almost 5 years).
Originally posted by 1swift:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by 1swift:
Why has Aaron Rodgers (very uncommon spelling) superseded Rogers as the common spelling of that name in peoples minds. Strange

Anyway. You can argue about the individuals themselves if you believe that Rogers wont maintain level of play or Goldson wont etc. But is it really arguable thad you'd much rather have a Pro Bowl corner than a Pro Bowl Safety if you had to pick one or the other?

would you rather have Nnamdi or Revis or Polamolu or Reed?

Revis > Polamolu > Reed > Nnamdi (last season, may switch positions for Reed and Nnamdi this coming year due to Reed's age)

Nah the 2 teams with the bad ass safeties made the playoffs last year, the teams with the CBs didn't do s**t. Safeties cause more problems for an offense because they can effect the whole field, play the run, and make game changing plays. A shutdown CB can mainly make the game 10 on 10 instead of 11 on 11. And even then they still get roasted sometimes. Stevie Johson made Revis his b***h earlier this year. Nnamdi got pwned switching off on Crabtree and Morgan, and was pretty helpless to do anything to stop us from making that large comeback. Rogers was great this year but in the end he got burned by Victor Cruz. Good Safeties or Pass rushers>>>Lockdown CBs IMO. Having good corners is important but I'd rather have 2-3 pretty good ones than 1 great 1 and some average 1s because QBs and recievers can still go after your 2nd/3rd CB or exploit the middle of the field if your FS is weak.
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by 1swift:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by 1swift:
Why has Aaron Rodgers (very uncommon spelling) superseded Rogers as the common spelling of that name in peoples minds. Strange

Anyway. You can argue about the individuals themselves if you believe that Rogers wont maintain level of play or Goldson wont etc. But is it really arguable thad you'd much rather have a Pro Bowl corner than a Pro Bowl Safety if you had to pick one or the other?

would you rather have Nnamdi or Revis or Polamolu or Reed?

Revis > Polamolu > Reed > Nnamdi (last season, may switch positions for Reed and Nnamdi this coming year due to Reed's age)

Nah the 2 teams with the bad ass safeties made the playoffs last year, the teams with the CBs didn't do s**t. Safeties cause more problems for an offense because they can effect the whole field, play the run, and make game changing plays. A shutdown CB can mainly make the game 10 on 10 instead of 11 on 11. And even then they still get roasted sometimes. Stevie Johson made Revis his b***h earlier this year. Nnamdi got pwned switching off on Crabtree and Morgan, and was pretty helpless to do anything to stop us from making that large comeback. Rogers was great this year but in the end he got burned by Victor Cruz. Good Safeties or Pass rushers>>>Lockdown CBs IMO. Having good corners is important but I'd rather have 2-3 pretty good ones than 1 great 1 and some average 1s because QBs and recievers can still go after your 2nd/3rd CB or exploit the middle of the field if your FS is weak.

True.

Ronnie Lott made more game changing plays while playing safety. He was able to use his skill set from sideline to sideline instead of just on one guy.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by 1swift:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by 1swift:
Why has Aaron Rodgers (very uncommon spelling) superseded Rogers as the common spelling of that name in peoples minds. Strange

Anyway. You can argue about the individuals themselves if you believe that Rogers wont maintain level of play or Goldson wont etc. But is it really arguable thad you'd much rather have a Pro Bowl corner than a Pro Bowl Safety if you had to pick one or the other?

would you rather have Nnamdi or Revis or Polamolu or Reed?

Revis > Polamolu > Reed > Nnamdi (last season, may switch positions for Reed and Nnamdi this coming year due to Reed's age)

Nah the 2 teams with the bad ass safeties made the playoffs last year, the teams with the CBs didn't do s**t. Safeties cause more problems for an offense because they can effect the whole field, play the run, and make game changing plays. A shutdown CB can mainly make the game 10 on 10 instead of 11 on 11. And even then they still get roasted sometimes. Stevie Johson made Revis his b***h earlier this year. Nnamdi got pwned switching off on Crabtree and Morgan, and was pretty helpless to do anything to stop us from making that large comeback. Rogers was great this year but in the end he got burned by Victor Cruz. Good Safeties or Pass rushers>>>Lockdown CBs IMO. Having good corners is important but I'd rather have 2-3 pretty good ones than 1 great 1 and some average 1s because QBs and recievers can still go after your 2nd/3rd CB or exploit the middle of the field if your FS is weak.

True.

Ronnie Lott made more game changing plays while playing safety. He was able to use his skill set from sideline to sideline instead of just on one guy.