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It's official 49ers have the worst red zone offense in the league

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
It's not just all Alex, I want to know WHY we have receivers like Ginn and Braylon in our redzone packages and not Crabs or Williams... Alex and Braylon just cannot if their life depended on it connect on those damn back shoulder throws whatsoever..... And the ball is never thrown inside the endzone, always outside to the sideline. If we've learned anything from Alex THIS season it's that his accuracy seems to be a lot better when thrown in the middle of the field, deep middle, or to crossing routes. Not understanding the play-calling/personnel groupings at all when it comes to inside the 20....

Of course its not just Alex. But he is the QB and has a big hand in the woes.

Alex rarely uses the back shoulder throw,. I've seen it a handfull of times this year. This requires accuracy and confidence in your abilities and confidence in your WRs. Alex has none of these attributes.

The ball is never thrown inside because we have a scared QB. There are always routes in the middle like crab slants on short crossing patterns. Alex doesn't pull the trigger and chooses the safe sideline throws. This is true even when not in the endzone. He RARELY throws the ball deep middle of the field, effectivly giving up opportunity to make big plays. This is evident as we barelty have any big gains pasing. In fact, we have bigger total gains in the run, which is sad.

The play calling is handcuffed with a guy who is to afraid to pull the trigger.

Not at all. I don't believe that nonsense that he is "scared" one bit. Why was it he was one of the most efficient Qb's in the redzone the past 2 seasons and not this one? Obviously it's because of the playcalling and personnel we have in that area. And to cap it off obviously sub-par execution. Those throws to the sideline are "designed" plays. Alex see's before the ball is snapped Braylon is in man with the CB opposing him and goes to him immediately. I have said Alex does not have good sideline accuracy, and this backs it up. He is more accurate when throwing to crossing routes and deep routes down the middle then anything down the sideline. Crabs and Williams were HARDLY utilized this last game in the redzone and instead Ginn and BYraylon were used which is BS.

All the niners should practice this week is nothing but redzone offense IMO. And Alex SERIOUSLY needs to take more/extra reps with Braylon.

Thats the only explanation on why he doesn't fire balls in the middle of the redzone like other QBs regularly do. And his "great Red zone rating" is a result of minimilazing ints and checking the ball down....cause he's scared. You can put up great red zone numbers if you have little opprtunities and don't take chances

This year this problem is exemplified because we are in a playoff position race and we are in the redzone way more often.

You are right in that his sideline accuracy is worse then his middle passes. Too bad he sticks to the sidelines on majority of the throws because those are safe.

Again, I will continue to disagree with the he's "scared" argument. I think he is limited for better terms. He had 35 TD's and only 1 INT in the redzone coming into this year. That's not scared, it's playing smart. Whether it's bad chemistry, "limited" or, "scared" pass play-calls, OR ineffective personnel, saying the reason why we are ineffective in the redzone because Alex is scared is laughable.

And I never said his sideline accuracy is "worse" than his middle passes. You said that. I said he is more accurate when throwing to intermediate passes in the middle of the field. He has relatively good accuracy there. We saw more passes in the middle of the endzone last year and the year before than this year. It's not Alex 'playing it safe' and throwing to the sideline, it's designed play-calling. In terms of the redzone..

I'm not sure about smart. Can we come to a middle ground and say he plays cautious in the red zone? I think that would be the most fail assessment.


Saying that he is more accurate when throwing in the middle, is the same thing as saying that his sideline passing is worse. Just because its worse doesn't mean its "bad." He may have goof sideline accuracy but as you stated, it is not as good as the middle passing.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
It's not just all Alex, I want to know WHY we have receivers like Ginn and Braylon in our redzone packages and not Crabs or Williams... Alex and Braylon just cannot if their life depended on it connect on those damn back shoulder throws whatsoever..... And the ball is never thrown inside the endzone, always outside to the sideline. If we've learned anything from Alex THIS season it's that his accuracy seems to be a lot better when thrown in the middle of the field, deep middle, or to crossing routes. Not understanding the play-calling/personnel groupings at all when it comes to inside the 20....

Of course its not just Alex. But he is the QB and has a big hand in the woes.

Alex rarely uses the back shoulder throw,. I've seen it a handfull of times this year. This requires accuracy and confidence in your abilities and confidence in your WRs. Alex has none of these attributes.

The ball is never thrown inside because we have a scared QB. There are always routes in the middle like crab slants on short crossing patterns. Alex doesn't pull the trigger and chooses the safe sideline throws. This is true even when not in the endzone. He RARELY throws the ball deep middle of the field, effectivly giving up opportunity to make big plays. This is evident as we barelty have any big gains pasing. In fact, we have bigger total gains in the run, which is sad.

The play calling is handcuffed with a guy who is to afraid to pull the trigger.

Not at all. I don't believe that nonsense that he is "scared" one bit. Why was it he was one of the most efficient Qb's in the redzone the past 2 seasons and not this one? Obviously it's because of the playcalling and personnel we have in that area. And to cap it off obviously sub-par execution. Those throws to the sideline are "designed" plays. Alex see's before the ball is snapped Braylon is in man with the CB opposing him and goes to him immediately. I have said Alex does not have good sideline accuracy, and this backs it up. He is more accurate when throwing to crossing routes and deep routes down the middle then anything down the sideline. Crabs and Williams were HARDLY utilized this last game in the redzone and instead Ginn and BYraylon were used which is BS.

All the niners should practice this week is nothing but redzone offense IMO. And Alex SERIOUSLY needs to take more/extra reps with Braylon.

Thats the only explanation on why he doesn't fire balls in the middle of the redzone like other QBs regularly do. And his "great Red zone rating" is a result of minimilazing ints and checking the ball down....cause he's scared. You can put up great red zone numbers if you have little opprtunities and don't take chances

This year this problem is exemplified because we are in a playoff position race and we are in the redzone way more often.

You are right in that his sideline accuracy is worse then his middle passes. Too bad he sticks to the sidelines on majority of the throws because those are safe.

Again, I will continue to disagree with the he's "scared" argument. I think he is limited for better terms. He had 35 TD's and only 1 INT in the redzone coming into this year. That's not scared, it's playing smart. Whether it's bad chemistry, "limited" or, "scared" pass play-calls, OR ineffective personnel, saying the reason why we are ineffective in the redzone because Alex is scared is laughable.

And I never said his sideline accuracy is "worse" than his middle passes. You said that. I said he is more accurate when throwing to intermediate passes in the middle of the field. He has relatively good accuracy there. We saw more passes in the middle of the endzone last year and the year before than this year. It's not Alex 'playing it safe' and throwing to the sideline, it's designed play-calling. In terms of the redzone..

I'm not sure about smart. Can we come to a middle ground and say he plays cautious in the red zone? I think that would be the most fail assessment.


Saying that he is more accurate when throwing in the middle, is the same thing as saying that his sideline passing is worse. Just because its worse doesn't mean its "bad." He may have goof sideline accuracy but as you stated, it is not as good as the middle passing.

I'm sure about smart, maybe cautious is a better term. But I have seen him sling it into the endzone numerous times last year and the year before that and hardly ever at all this year... That leads me to believe the play-calling needs to "trust" in Alex.

Tell you what, I'll make this easier and just grade his areas of accuracy based on my opinion. And you can do yours if you'd like.

Deep Ball Sideline Accuracy: D-
Deep Ball Middle Accuracy: C+
Short/Medium Sideline Accuracy: C-
Short/Medium Middle Accuracy: B
Originally posted by valrod33:
Its the playcalling. Harbaugh is getting to cute down there. Call plays that go for the endzone and dont take Crabtree out in the Redzone he is our best WR

exactly
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by OC49erLuVeR:
Can anyone tell me what happened to Delanie??? I'm in South Orange County and they don't show the games down here all the time. I just watch the stats and highlights. When VD had double coverage, they go to Delanie through most of the season. I haven't seen any stats from him the last 3 or so games...any insight would be great.

Dropping Balls, thats what he has been doing
He dropped one ball yesterday and it was a punt type pass that went from one side of the field to the other. He dropped it because he heard footsteps (watch his eyes in the replay). He probably thought he was about to get lit up, so he snuck a peek right before the ball got there.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by OC49erLuVeR:
Can anyone tell me what happened to Delanie??? I'm in South Orange County and they don't show the games down here all the time. I just watch the stats and highlights. When VD had double coverage, they go to Delanie through most of the season. I haven't seen any stats from him the last 3 or so games...any insight would be great.

Dropping Balls, thats what he has been doing
He dropped one ball yesterday and it was a punt type pass that went from one side of the field to the other. He dropped it because he heard footsteps (watch his eyes in the replay). He probably thought he was about to get lit up, so he snuck a peek right before the ball got there.

Delanexcuses
Originally posted by susweel:
Every time we are in the red zone I dont expect a TD anymore. It sucks and pisses me off.


Its like wining and dining a chick and at the end of the night all you get is a peck on the cheek.

Its way worse. It's like one tug that gives you a semi, then she bails.
I would use Dixon in short yardage situations--he is the biggest back--we have to be able to run the ball--smash em--in this regard Jimmy Raye and Singletary were right. I wouldn't use the fade routes too much--it isn't something Smith is good at throwing nor the receivers catching. The other options are passes more in the middle part of the field to the TE and RB's---Miller/ Dixon/ Hunter--and to the WR's. I am not an offensive genius--but we need coaches who can call some good plays.

The Niners should look at film of what worked in the past. It could also be Smith not wanting to force a turnover is just way too extra cautious in the red zone.

I'd like to see a Dixon/Hunter backfield inside the 7
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
It's not just all Alex, I want to know WHY we have receivers like Ginn and Braylon in our redzone packages and not Crabs or Williams... Alex and Braylon just cannot if their life depended on it connect on those damn back shoulder throws whatsoever..... And the ball is never thrown inside the endzone, always outside to the sideline. If we've learned anything from Alex THIS season it's that his accuracy seems to be a lot better when thrown in the middle of the field, deep middle, or to crossing routes. Not understanding the play-calling/personnel groupings at all when it comes to inside the 20....

Of course its not just Alex. But he is the QB and has a big hand in the woes.

Alex rarely uses the back shoulder throw,. I've seen it a handfull of times this year. This requires accuracy and confidence in your abilities and confidence in your WRs. Alex has none of these attributes.

The ball is never thrown inside because we have a scared QB. There are always routes in the middle like crab slants on short crossing patterns. Alex doesn't pull the trigger and chooses the safe sideline throws. This is true even when not in the endzone. He RARELY throws the ball deep middle of the field, effectivly giving up opportunity to make big plays. This is evident as we barelty have any big gains pasing. In fact, we have bigger total gains in the run, which is sad.

The play calling is handcuffed with a guy who is to afraid to pull the trigger.

Not at all. I don't believe that nonsense that he is "scared" one bit. Why was it he was one of the most efficient Qb's in the redzone the past 2 seasons and not this one? Obviously it's because of the playcalling and personnel we have in that area. And to cap it off obviously sub-par execution. Those throws to the sideline are "designed" plays. Alex see's before the ball is snapped Braylon is in man with the CB opposing him and goes to him immediately. I have said Alex does not have good sideline accuracy, and this backs it up. He is more accurate when throwing to crossing routes and deep routes down the middle then anything down the sideline. Crabs and Williams were HARDLY utilized this last game in the redzone and instead Ginn and BYraylon were used which is BS.

All the niners should practice this week is nothing but redzone offense IMO. And Alex SERIOUSLY needs to take more/extra reps with Braylon.

Thats the only explanation on why he doesn't fire balls in the middle of the redzone like other QBs regularly do. And his "great Red zone rating" is a result of minimilazing ints and checking the ball down....cause he's scared. You can put up great red zone numbers if you have little opprtunities and don't take chances

This year this problem is exemplified because we are in a playoff position race and we are in the redzone way more often.

You are right in that his sideline accuracy is worse then his middle passes. Too bad he sticks to the sidelines on majority of the throws because those are safe.

Again, I will continue to disagree with the he's "scared" argument. I think he is limited for better terms. He had 35 TD's and only 1 INT in the redzone coming into this year. That's not scared, it's playing smart. Whether it's bad chemistry, "limited" or, "scared" pass play-calls, OR ineffective personnel, saying the reason why we are ineffective in the redzone because Alex is scared is laughable.

And I never said his sideline accuracy is "worse" than his middle passes. You said that. I said he is more accurate when throwing to intermediate passes in the middle of the field. He has relatively good accuracy there. We saw more passes in the middle of the endzone last year and the year before than this year. It's not Alex 'playing it safe' and throwing to the sideline, it's designed play-calling. In terms of the redzone..

I'm not sure about smart. Can we come to a middle ground and say he plays cautious in the red zone? I think that would be the most fail assessment.


Saying that he is more accurate when throwing in the middle, is the same thing as saying that his sideline passing is worse. Just because its worse doesn't mean its "bad." He may have goof sideline accuracy but as you stated, it is not as good as the middle passing.

I'm sure about smart, maybe cautious is a better term. But I have seen him sling it into the endzone numerous times last year and the year before that and hardly ever at all this year... That leads me to believe the play-calling needs to "trust" in Alex.

Tell you what, I'll make this easier and just grade his areas of accuracy based on my opinion. And you can do yours if you'd like.

Deep Ball Sideline Accuracy: D-
Deep Ball Middle Accuracy: C+
Short/Medium Sideline Accuracy: C-
Short/Medium Middle Accuracy: B

This looks like a fair assessment. I'll agree with those grades. Maybe give him a C+ on Short/Medium Middle Accuracy.

And you are right, he did fire it into the endzone more times last year. Maybe its the play calling or maybe Alex is really trying to avoid the game killing mistake that has pagued his career. It may be a combonation of both.

There is a thin line between cautions and smart. I think Smith falls somewhere in the middle. We need him to be aggressive AND smart to have a shot at being great.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
I'm sure about smart, maybe cautious is a better term. But I have seen him sling it into the endzone numerous times last year and the year before that and hardly ever at all this year... That leads me to believe the play-calling needs to "trust" in Alex.

Tell you what, I'll make this easier and just grade his areas of accuracy based on my opinion. And you can do yours if you'd like.

Deep Ball Sideline Accuracy: D-
Deep Ball Middle Accuracy: C+
Short/Medium Sideline Accuracy: C-
Short/Medium Middle Accuracy: B
Are we discussing Tebow or Alex Smith?
Full panic mode!!!!
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by susweel:
Every time we are in the red zone I dont expect a TD anymore. It sucks and pisses me off.


Its like wining and dining a chick and at the end of the night all you get is a peck on the cheek.

Its way worse. It's like one tug that gives you a semi, then she bails.

lol
Originally posted by 49ersswagger:
Why wont we throw the ball to Vernon Davis? two years ago he had 13 TD's tied gates for most TD's by a TE in NFL history a record recently broken by patriots TE we are having problems scoring in the red zone only 3 TD's in last 20 trips inside to redzone vernon davis had 1 reception for 32 yrds vs cardinals he is clearly our best reciever so why wont we use him

.
They need to get away from 'protecting the 3 pts' mentality from the coaches on down to the players , but instead going for the 7. Comes down execution though. I think this whole team was taught to play safe since Nolan. Smith play safe. WRs try to protect the ball from a possible INT instead of fighting for the catch. If you can't get it make sure the DB don't. NO! You have to get it and catch it because the game is on the line whether it's 1st or 4th quarter.
Originally posted by Squidp:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
I'm sure about smart, maybe cautious is a better term. But I have seen him sling it into the endzone numerous times last year and the year before that and hardly ever at all this year... That leads me to believe the play-calling needs to "trust" in Alex.

Tell you what, I'll make this easier and just grade his areas of accuracy based on my opinion. And you can do yours if you'd like.

Deep Ball Sideline Accuracy: D-
Deep Ball Middle Accuracy: C+
Short/Medium Sideline Accuracy: C-
Short/Medium Middle Accuracy: B
Are we discussing Tebow or Alex Smith?

Do you see the word "Tebow" anywhere mentioned in our conversation?
  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 640
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
They need to get away from 'protecting the 3 pts' mentality from the coaches on down to the players , but instead going for the 7. Comes down execution though. I think this whole team was taught to play safe since Nolan. Smith play safe. WRs try to protect the ball from a possible INT instead of fighting for the catch. If you can't get it make sure the DB don't. NO! You have to get it and catch it because the game is on the line whether it's 1st or 4th quarter.
I agree that the mentality has to change. The play calling can be added to this. If you have 1st and goal at the 7, tell the players we are going to throw all three downs and get a TD. If it is at the 3 are closer, I am fine with stating we are going to man up and run it in but throw in a playaction pass on 2nd or first down with an option for Alex to run.

Maybe I am wrong but most of the time when we have a 1st and goal we seem to try to run the ball. Then we throw the outside route when that fails. Would like to see this part of the redzone offense opened up a bit and become more creative.