Is David Akers the best kicker we ever had?

This was media generated from the beginning. Other than flying out there to evaluate him, which falls under due diligence imo, I don't remember the team saying a goddamn thing one way or the other.

Is the media butthurt because basically Harbaugh inferred the media was making something out of nothing the whole time? I do not know, and really don't give much of a crap.

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
This was media generated from the beginning. Other than flying out there to evaluate him, which falls under due diligence imo, I don't remember the team saying a goddamn thing one way or the other.

Is the media butthurt because basically Harbaugh inferred the media was making something out of nothing the whole time? I do not know, and really don't give much of a crap.

One of those rare occasions when keeping your mouth shut doesn't work out to your benefit! LOL! Harbaugh doesn't need to explain himself and seldom does, but he was getting irritated or frustrated (or both) with the media and decided to make a statement. The fact that many in the media feel it fine to call him a liar is pathetic.

Then you get beaten over the head for making a statement.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
How can the media bash our HC for doing his job...ie, talking with Manning once he indicated interest in playing for a bonafide SB contender. Was Harbaugh supposed to say "no" to manning in response to "I'm interested in what the 49ers and I can do .Could we set up a time to sit down and see what both the 49ers and I each want? " How in the world is a HC doing his job with the best interest of his team in mind if he says "NO". Man, guys, the media are a bunch of jakcasses for making a big intrigue about this. Coach did this as unobtrusively as he and baalke could, but obviously their trip East was noted. There was no intrigue that the media suggests. Just a HC and GM, both voted best in their trades last yr, doing there jobs. That's it.

When peyton put his cards on the table, it was apparent that the dance tickets didn't match. Coach and GM correctly had no intention of destroying the incredible job of maintaining a team with the best quality at the best prices, across the board..and no way was Coach H going to give Peyton control of the Offense. This was a dead duck from the gitgo, but nobody in their right mind would have told peyton, "nope, we don't want to sit down and listen to what you have to offer". Coach and GM did their jobs, and came to the appropriate conclusion...the only conclusion. Had Peyton really wanted a run at another ring, he could have said , "sure I'll play for $8mil/yr and I don't need to control the O"...but we all know he didn't say that. Denver, as history will record, thot that was a sterling idea...It wasn't .
End of story. Alex returns home once Peyton announces he'll sign with denver, and signs his contract which has been sitting on the table the entire time.

Where in the world is the drama in that. Of course the media made an entire desperate saga out of it...and then accused Coach of lying...when he is not obligated nor should he tell us or the media how he and baalke actually evaluated peyton...nor anyone else for that matter. That is not our nor their business. Screw the media, lying c$$$&&&kers.

I actually think no was the correct response. Don't kid yourselves that's exactly what GB, NO, NE, Pit, NYG or any other high profile franchise would have done. No thanks Peyton we're happy moving forward with Alex Smith. Manning is not going to have his feelings hurt because we like our current quarterback. When Manning called the Niners rumors of his asking price were already floating about. I'm pretty sure we had a good understanding pf what he was looking for. There's no reason to create a distraction if you know you have a square peg in a round hole.

Working out Peyton Manning and going at him half ***ed is only inviting problems onto yourself. This really wasn't the media spinning up some story. We put a foot no matter how half hearted in the Peyton Manning sweepstakes and they reported it now Harbaugh has try to spin his way out of it.

FTR I think we had the best offseason we possibly could have. Most importantly we retained all of our key defensive free agents. From there we add Moss, Manningham and Jenkins so our receiving core is the strongest it's been since 2002. Retaining Alex Smith was the right move as well.

It's water under the bridge though so it's time to move on.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
It's not about contracts although I can't envision a scenario were that would work.

Are you serious? Contracts are a big deal in this situation. The Niners weren't gonna sign Manning for the amount he wanted, especially since nobody knows if Manning is even the same QB at this point. The only way Manning would even be on the team was if he signed a cap friendly deal.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Peyton Manning would never, ever, ever, ever go here unless he was the undisputed starting qb. There's a reason why Tebow got kicked to the curb seconds after Manning landed in Denver. Denver wasn't going to let the media spin a qb controversy.

Alex Smith is not going to resign here when he realizes he has to compete with Peyton Manning. He knows he's a starting qb in this league and if we're not going to give him that gig he'll find someone that will.

Ok, you're not understanding me. I already agreed with you that it was an unlikely scenario. I'm not trying to convince you that this scenario would have happened, I'm trying to say that Harbaugh/Baalke didn't rule it out completely without evaluating the situation first. They probably had a feeling it wouldn't happen, but they at least made an effort to get confirmation from all parties involved.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Harbaugh is not going to want that distraction plaguing the locker room. Bringing in Manning and Smith would set off a nuke in the locker room. Our teammates are firmly behind Alex Smith. Peyton Manning is one of the best qbs to ever play the game.

I disagree it would have been a distraction. I'm pretty sure the locker room understands these 2 things:

1) Harbaugh & Baalke are here to field the best possible team. If they have an opportunity to upgrade a position, they'll attempt to do it.
2) Harbaugh is all about competition and earning your role on the team. Is it a distraction that a HOF WR (Moss), a rising WR (Manningham), and a 1st round pick (Jenkins) were brought in to compete with a former 1st rounder (Crabtree) and the rest of the receiving corp this year? Is it a distraction that a veteran HB (Jacobs) and a second round pick (James) were brought in to compete with a Pro Bowler (Gore) and a promising second-year player (Hunter)? The answer is NO. No matter how deep or thin a position is, Harbaugh & Baalke have shown that they want competition.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Here's my point. The scenario you're throwing just isn't realistic and Harbaugh and Balke knew that option was never on the table. Point being if we had any interest in Manning it had to be as Alex's replacement because there is no maybe he'll play for free and compete with Alex.

I understand your point. You believe that if something is unlikely, its not worth checking out. Since you assume something isn't realistic its just a waste of time to even confirm the actual possibility. No point in due diligence.

Now here's my point. Manning expressed interest in us. Therefore, Harbaugh & Baalke wanted to see how interested he was. This is when the evaluation process occurs. They can find out his salary expectations, offensive expectations, his willingness to compete instead of being the sure starter, etc. Like Harbaugh said, you evaluate it and then you can eliminate the possibility. If you eliminate an option before you even confirm the possibility, you're just cutting yourself short. Good GMs and HCs get the job done by being thorough, not by making moves/decisions based on pure assumptions.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
I don't know why this bugs me, but just what was so implausible about Harbaugh's comments on Manning? Follow me now . . . sorry this runs a bit long

Who contacted who?

1. Jim Trotter of SI reported during that week that "The owner of one 2011 playoff team told SI that while his club was not pursuing Manning, it would seriously consider signing him (pending a positive medical report) if he phoned and said he wanted to play for them."
2. Matt Barrows wrote a Manning aftermath article on 3/20 in which he reported specifically that Manning "approached" the 49ers.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/03/16/report-49ers-enter-pursuit-of-peyton-manning/

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/03/20/v-print/4350977/sdfd-fdgf-gfdgf-hghgfggfghjkfhgfjkhgfjkghdfjkgf.html


When looking at the 2011 playoff teams needing a QB it seems pretty obvious that the owner Trotter referenced was Jed York. The delicate dance was due to Condon's involvement. So, Manning called us, and we were going seriously consider signing him if everything checked out. So then what?



What do we actually know?

1. On the Tuesday that was the first day of free agency (when everyone was looking the other way) Harbaugh and Roman flew to Duke and clandestinely observed Manning work-out.
2. The 49ers dispatched their doctors back east to examine Manning.

This part sounds purely like an evaluation to me.


What was different about the 49ers involvement?

1. News of the 49ers involvement didn't surface until three days after they checked him out physically.
2. Of the final three "contenders", Santa Clara was the only place Manning didn't visit.
3. Manning reached out to the 49ers and not vice versa.

The 49ers didn't pursue Manning like b***hes in heat like the Broncos, Titans, Dolphins, Jets, Chiefs, Seahawks and Cardinals, etc. I think a lot of this had to do again with the Smith/Manning/Condon angle. It was in the 49ers interest to keep this quiet as to avoid any possibility of alienating the locker room and Alex (even though when Peyton Manning calls you listen), but the fact remains that Alex has been through many battles with these guys and most of them are intensely loyal. Condon also had an interest in keeping it low profile to avoid the perception among NFL players that he'd actively leverage two clients against the same team.


How does all this tie together?

First, the question of who initiated contact is fundamental. The 49ers received a call and had to take a look . . . they had to. What we don't know is what happened between the time we worked him out and the time Manning made his decision. If the 49ers were going to "seriously consider signing him" you'd have to assume (although it's never been reported) that there were general discussions on the parameters of how everything would work on the football side. The dance very well could have ended or cooled at this point for whatever reason.


What I think happened

We got the call we evaulauted.

We discussed the X's & O's parameters of the possible signing over the next day or two and neither side could get comfortable feeling, whether it was the style of offense, the play calling or even the prospect of Alex Smith still being on the roster. The "pursuit" effectively ended there.

Manning knew before the weekend that he wasn't coming to the 49ers which allowed Condon to finally leak our involvement on Friday in an effort to play Denver and Tennessee against each other over the weekend.

Knowing Manning wasn't coming here, Condon tried to make Baalke squirm over St. Patricks day weekend by sending Alex to Miami for a visit. Trent didn't curr. Bluff failed. Alex re-signs for virtually the same contract we offered him in February.


Bottom Line

The front office evaluated and examined only after being prompted by interest from Manning and the level of actual "pursuit" was very questionable. In the end it's still a bit of a semantics argument and Harbaugh's comments last week were still directed for the benefit of Alex and the team. But when you break it down it's clear that Harbaugh's strident denial of "pursuit" was more justified than anyone slamming him for lying is willing to concede.

Great post!

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Are you serious? Contracts are a big deal in this situation. The Niners weren't gonna sign Manning for the amount he wanted, especially since nobody knows if Manning is even the same QB at this point. The only way Manning would even be on the team was if he signed a cap friendly deal.



Ok, you're not understanding me. I already agreed with you that it was an unlikely scenario. I'm not trying to convince you that this scenario would have happened, I'm trying to say that Harbaugh/Baalke didn't rule it out completely without evaluating the situation first. They probably had a feeling it wouldn't happen, but they at least made an effort to get confirmation from all parties involved.



I disagree it would have been a distraction. I'm pretty sure the locker room understands these 2 things:

1) Harbaugh & Baalke are here to field the best possible team. If they have an opportunity to upgrade a position, they'll attempt to do it.
2) Harbaugh is all about competition and earning your role on the team. Is it a distraction that a HOF WR (Moss), a rising WR (Manningham), and a 1st round pick (Jenkins) were brought in to compete with a former 1st rounder (Crabtree) and the rest of the receiving corp this year? Is it a distraction that a veteran HB (Jacobs) and a second round pick (James) were brought in to compete with a Pro Bowler (Gore) and a promising second-year player (Hunter)? The answer is NO. No matter how deep or thin a position is, Harbaugh & Baalke have shown that they want competition.



I understand your point. You believe that if something is unlikely, its not worth checking out. Since you assume something isn't realistic its just a waste of time to even confirm the actual possibility. No point in due diligence.

Now here's my point. Manning expressed interest in us. Therefore, Harbaugh & Baalke wanted to see how interested he was. This is when the evaluation process occurs. They can find out his salary expectations, offensive expectations, his willingness to compete instead of being the sure starter, etc. Like Harbaugh said, you evaluate it and then you can eliminate the possibility. If you eliminate an option before you even confirm the possibility, you're just cutting yourself short. Good GMs and HCs get the job done by being thorough, not by making moves/decisions based on pure assumptions.

We're not on the same page here. What I tried to say was there's not enough cap for both Alex and Peyton. Ignoring that I'm just going to talk about why neither party would be interesting in competition. Wasn't trying to say that his cap number didn't matter.

I agree with you that we needed concessions from Manning if he wanted to be our qb but nobody has any clue what number would be okay for us so it's pointless to speculate on that subject. What we know is that we had enough interest to work him out but at 106 million we weren't buyers.

When Peyton Manning called us and asked us if we had interest in him it was under the assumption that we were looking for a starting quarterback. Not sure why everyone is ignoring that part, but come on that's pretty obvious. There is absolutely no indication from Peyton Manning's 15 year career that he would be cool with a competition. The guy barely allows backup qbs to practice. I don't agree with the notion that hey Peyton called us maybe he's okay with playing for free and training Kaepernick while Smith starts. Harbaugh and Balke had to have some idea what his parameters when they agreed to meet with him. Us meeting with him is not a sign that we willing to agree to his parameters but at the same time I think it's safe to say we wouldn't be wasting his time unless there's some interest in trying to meet in the middle.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
We're not on the same page here. What I tried to say was there's not enough cap for both Alex and Peyton. Ignoring that I'm just going to talk about why neither party would be interesting in competition. Wasn't trying to say that his cap number didn't matter.

I agree with you that we needed concessions from Manning if he wanted to be our qb but nobody has any clue what number would be okay for us so it's pointless to speculate on that subject. What we know is that we had enough interest to work him out but at 106 million we weren't buyers.

When Peyton Manning called us and asked us if we had interest in him it was under the assumption that we were looking for a starting quarterback. Not sure why everyone is ignoring that part, but come on that's pretty obvious. There is absolutely no indication from Peyton Manning's 15 year career that he would be cool with a competition. The guy barely allows backup qbs to practice. I don't agree with the notion that hey Peyton called us maybe he's okay with playing for free and training Kaepernick while Smith starts. Harbaugh and Balke had to have some idea what his parameters when they agreed to meet with him.

Once again, you're going off pure assumption and closing the door based on those assumptions. Harbaugh & Baalke may have had the same assumptions as you, but the difference is that they DID NOT close the door based on those guesses. They still considered the scenario and left the door open throughout the entire process.

You insist that Peyton wouldn't be cool with competition or signing a low-risk/high-reward deal. But consider this...nobody (except Peyton himself) knew exactly how interested he was in playing for the Niners. Prior to his workout with Baalke/Harbaugh, nobody knows how much he valued the opportunity to win another championship (possibly multiple championships). At this point in his career, maybe he would've been willing to compete for the job or take an incentive-based deal just to play for a SB contender in its prime. Nobody knew what Peyton was willing to do or sacrifice for a shot at being involved in a potential dynasty. The only way to know this information would be through evaluation and conversations with the parties involved.

Also, you said "I don't agree with the notion that hey Peyton called us maybe he's okay with playing for free and training Kaepernick while Smith starts". Well of course Peyton wasn't gonna be brought in just to be a mentor. He would either be the starting QB (without Smith on the roster) or compete to be the starter (with Smith on the roster).

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Harbaugh and Balke had to have some idea what his parameters when they agreed to meet with him. Us meeting with him is not a sign that we willing to agree to his parameters but at the same time I think it's safe to say we wouldn't be wasting his time unless there's some interest in trying to meet in the middle.

I disagree. Baalke's history shows that he has a "take it or leave it" approach when negotiating.

1. When Baalke gave Harbaugh an offer to be our HC, he stuck to his guns. He didn't change the salary amount despite Miami offering significantly more. Baalke didn't care to compete with other offers, he instead let Harbaugh explore the other options. This pretty much says if you wanna be here then you'll take my offer...if not, then you can go elsewhere. They didn't meet in the middle, Harbaugh took what Baalke offered.
2. When Gore held out for a Deangelo Williams type deal, Baalke stayed put once again. He ended up signing for significantly less than what he was seeking. Gore is a well respected player on this team and Baalke didn't budge for him. They didn't meet in the middle, Gore took what Baalke offered.
3. Dashon Goldson threatened to leave for free agency when the Niners didn't give him the contract he wanted. Again, Baalke didn't budge. He let Goldson hit the market despite the hole it created at FS. Goldson eventually came back, by taking what Baalke offered...not meeting in the middle.
4. Alex Smith wanted a more secure long-term contract. Instead, Baalke put an offer on the table and gave him the choice to take it or leave it. The departure of Alex (a well liked and respected teammate) would have created a "?" at the QB position, but Baalke still didn't budge. They didn't meet in the middle, Alex took what Baalke offered.

Do you honestly believe Baalke would try to meet a free agent in the middle even though he was unwilling to do that with significant members of his own team?

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Harbaugh and Balke had to have some idea what his parameters when they agreed to meet with him. Us meeting with him is not a sign that we willing to agree to his parameters but at the same time I think it's safe to say we wouldn't be wasting his time unless there's some interest in trying to meet in the middle.

I disagree. Baalke's history shows that he has a "take it or leave it" approach when negotiating.

1. When Baalke gave Harbaugh an offer to be our HC, he stuck to his guns. He didn't change the salary amount despite Miami offering significantly more. Baalke didn't care to compete with other offers, he instead let Harbaugh explore the other options. This pretty much says if you wanna be here then you'll take my offer...if not, then you can go elsewhere. They didn't meet in the middle, Harbaugh took what Baalke offered.
2. When Gore held out for a Deangelo Williams type deal, Baalke stayed put once again. He ended up signing for significantly less than what he was seeking. Gore is a well respected player on this team and Baalke didn't budge for him. They didn't meet in the middle, Gore took what Baalke offered.
3. Dashon Goldson threatened to leave for free agency when the Niners didn't give him the contract he wanted. Again, Baalke didn't budge. He let Goldson hit the market despite the hole it created at FS. Goldson eventually came back, by taking what Baalke offered...not meeting in the middle.
4. Alex Smith wanted a more secure long-term contract. Instead, Baalke put an offer on the table and gave him the choice to take it or leave it. The departure of Alex (a well liked and respected teammate) would have created a "?" at the QB position, but Baalke still didn't budge. They didn't meet in the middle, Alex took what Baalke offered.

Do you honestly believe Baalke would try to meet a free agent in the middle even though he was unwilling to do that with significant members of his own team?

So Baalke probably made an offer?

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Harbaugh and Balke had to have some idea what his parameters when they agreed to meet with him. Us meeting with him is not a sign that we willing to agree to his parameters but at the same time I think it's safe to say we wouldn't be wasting his time unless there's some interest in trying to meet in the middle.

I disagree. Baalke's history shows that he has a "take it or leave it" approach when negotiating.

1. When Baalke gave Harbaugh an offer to be our HC, he stuck to his guns. He didn't change the salary amount despite Miami offering significantly more. Baalke didn't care to compete with other offers, he instead let Harbaugh explore the other options. This pretty much says if you wanna be here then you'll take my offer...if not, then you can go elsewhere. They didn't meet in the middle, Harbaugh took what Baalke offered.
2. When Gore held out for a Deangelo Williams type deal, Baalke stayed put once again. He ended up signing for significantly less than what he was seeking. Gore is a well respected player on this team and Baalke didn't budge for him. They didn't meet in the middle, Gore took what Baalke offered.
3. Dashon Goldson threatened to leave for free agency when the Niners didn't give him the contract he wanted. Again, Baalke didn't budge. He let Goldson hit the market despite the hole it created at FS. Goldson eventually came back, by taking what Baalke offered...not meeting in the middle.
4. Alex Smith wanted a more secure long-term contract. Instead, Baalke put an offer on the table and gave him the choice to take it or leave it. The departure of Alex (a well liked and respected teammate) would have created a "?" at the QB position, but Baalke still didn't budge. They didn't meet in the middle, Alex took what Baalke offered.

Do you honestly believe Baalke would try to meet a free agent in the middle even though he was unwilling to do that with significant members of his own team?

So Baalke probably made an offer?

Peyton was interested in playing here, so I would assume Baalke had some type of basic negotiation going on. If a future HOF QB expressed interest in your team, its a no brainer to try to determine the possibility of making it happen.

"Peyton, you wanna play here? Then you would need to sign for X amount dollars over X amount of years (a low-risk/high-reward deal) and compete for the starting role. If you're interested, we'll discuss this further. If not, you can look at your other options elsewhere."

Obviously that's just an example and I'm not trying to claim that's what went down.

I'm with candlestick.

Besides all that matters is the team explored its options legitamitely. Unlike the previous regimes.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Are you serious? Contracts are a big deal in this situation. The Niners weren't gonna sign Manning for the amount he wanted, especially since nobody knows if Manning is even the same QB at this point. The only way Manning would even be on the team was if he signed a cap friendly deal.



Ok, you're not understanding me. I already agreed with you that it was an unlikely scenario. I'm not trying to convince you that this scenario would have happened, I'm trying to say that Harbaugh/Baalke didn't rule it out completely without evaluating the situation first. They probably had a feeling it wouldn't happen, but they at least made an effort to get confirmation from all parties involved.



I disagree it would have been a distraction. I'm pretty sure the locker room understands these 2 things:

1) Harbaugh & Baalke are here to field the best possible team. If they have an opportunity to upgrade a position, they'll attempt to do it.
2) Harbaugh is all about competition and earning your role on the team. Is it a distraction that a HOF WR (Moss), a rising WR (Manningham), and a 1st round pick (Jenkins) were brought in to compete with a former 1st rounder (Crabtree) and the rest of the receiving corp this year? Is it a distraction that a veteran HB (Jacobs) and a second round pick (James) were brought in to compete with a Pro Bowler (Gore) and a promising second-year player (Hunter)? The answer is NO. No matter how deep or thin a position is, Harbaugh & Baalke have shown that they want competition.



I understand your point. You believe that if something is unlikely, its not worth checking out. Since you assume something isn't realistic its just a waste of time to even confirm the actual possibility. No point in due diligence.

Now here's my point. Manning expressed interest in us. Therefore, Harbaugh & Baalke wanted to see how interested he was. This is when the evaluation process occurs. They can find out his salary expectations, offensive expectations, his willingness to compete instead of being the sure starter, etc. Like Harbaugh said, you evaluate it and then you can eliminate the possibility. If you eliminate an option before you even confirm the possibility, you're just cutting yourself short. Good GMs and HCs get the job done by being thorough, not by making moves/decisions based on pure assumptions.

We're not on the same page here. What I tried to say was there's not enough cap for both Alex and Peyton. Ignoring that I'm just going to talk about why neither party would be interesting in competition. Wasn't trying to say that his cap number didn't matter.

I agree with you that we needed concessions from Manning if he wanted to be our qb but nobody has any clue what number would be okay for us so it's pointless to speculate on that subject. What we know is that we had enough interest to work him out but at 106 million we weren't buyers.

When Peyton Manning called us and asked us if we had interest in him it was under the assumption that we were looking for a starting quarterback. Not sure why everyone is ignoring that part, but come on that's pretty obvious. There is absolutely no indication from Peyton Manning's 15 year career that he would be cool with a competition. The guy barely allows backup qbs to practice. I don't agree with the notion that hey Peyton called us maybe he's okay with playing for free and training Kaepernick while Smith starts. Harbaugh and Balke had to have some idea what his parameters when they agreed to meet with him. Us meeting with him is not a sign that we willing to agree to his parameters but at the same time I think it's safe to say we wouldn't be wasting his time unless there's some interest in trying to meet in the middle.

Maybe thats why we didn't end up signing Peyton?!?! I think it plausible that our offer was designed to be able to squeeze both QB's in and wasn't enough for Peyton who had much better suitors.

Denver had a two pronged reason for signing Manning: 1) Hall of Fame QB and 2) get rid of the fans favorite without leaving them with much to gripe about. Elway is/was not a fan of Tebow! So they paid more than another team would.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Denver had a two pronged reason for signing Manning: 1) Hall of Fame QB and 2) get rid of the fans favorite without leaving them with much to gripe about. Elway is/was not a fan of Tebow! So they paid more than another team would.

You mean they offered more

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Denver had a two pronged reason for signing Manning: 1) Hall of Fame QB and 2) get rid of the fans favorite without leaving them with much to gripe about. Elway is/was not a fan of Tebow! So they paid more than another team would.

You mean they offered more

Offered and will pay more...good catch.