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Drops through week 6 for the Niners

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Not questioning your work. I meant what I said. My data came from a statistical website with info on every team.not always perfectly accurate. question is, are they inaccurate across the board our just fire the 9ers? or?

Oh, I am fine even if are questioning it... it's cool.

To answer your bolded question, I certainly would not sit and watch every other team's games just to acquire an answer. Who has that level of time or interest? That's the problem with statistical sites. They become inaccurate in some areas because there is just so much area to cover.

I trust myself and the way I went about acquiring the info on the 49ers. I can't say much about your source, since I don't know what your source was.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/index.asp

It seems the stats did not include week 6. They now have the 9ers at 12 drops instead of 10. Only 2 drops the last game? Really? Wow....


Edit: they use STATS LLC for their..well...stats.
[ Edited by Jakemall on Oct 20, 2011 at 12:23 PM ]
Originally posted by Jakemall:
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/index.asp

It seems the stats did not include week 6. They now have the 9ers at 12 drops instead of 10. Only 2 drops the last game? Really? Wow....


Edit: they use STATS LLC for their..well...stats.

Yeah, those that put up the stats just don't catch everything... never do.

I see according to that link that we are also in the bottom 10 on YAC yards... sounds about right. Aside from that TB game, our boys are getting wrapped up and put down rather easily.

5-1 = yay! but they have a lot of work to do... We will be dominating teams if we can just improve drops, YAC, and penalties.
Since we count drops here, thought it would only be fair to count off target throws to keep everything unbiased.

Off Target Throws from Detroit game


1st quarter

11:05, 2nd and 19
Quick hitch to Ginn is delivered too late and well too high. Yes, I think it grazed Ginn's finger tips but being that he is only 5'10, it was a pretty impossible catch considering the velocity it was thrown at and Ginn could only get fingertips on it.

8:23 2nd and 12

3 step drop, quick out to Crabtree completed for 7 yards. This throw was a tad late and high as well. Crabtree does a good job of hauling it in, and there was probably some room for some extra YAC had this ball been thrown at the numbers and on time.


2nd Quarter

None .


3rd Quarter

14:56 1st and 10

Checkdown throw to Gore is incomplete. Throw is a wobbler and is at Gore's shoelaces when he tries to make the catch. I'd probably place 80% of this on Smith and 20% on Gore for not catching it at his shoelaces.

9:32 3rd and 9

Incomplete to Delanie Walker wide open in the end zone. 50/50 blame on this one. Delanie drops it but he was so wide open it is partly on Smith for throwing it at his ankle instead of hitting him in the numbers.

5:30 3rd and 13

Shotgun, 27 yard completion to Michael Crabtree against zone coverage. Again, this throw is way too high and slightly behind Crabtree causing him to contort his body in mid air to make a stunning catch. Had this been on time and accurate, again, there would have been a lot of room for some YAC.

4:45 2nd and 10

Quick hitch to Crabtree is incomplete to the right side. This is another instance where it grazed the receiver's finger tips but the ball is thrown at a high enough velocity to make the catch damn near impossible to grab. This was also classic mechanics fail, as Smith did not slide his feet so he could step up, causing the throw to sail when throwing off the back foot. Anyone who calls this "a dropppp" is ill-informed on QB mechanics and their opinion shall be rendered useless.

1:54 2nd and 11

Play action throw to Crabtree is an interception. Route is a deep dig, and Crabtree beat the press off the LOS and was open. The rush was closing on Alex so he attempted to step up but had another mechanics fail, as he dropped his shoulder before releasing the ball, casuing it to sail. Crabtree, who has had a knack this season for making these ridiculous catches above his head, was inches from breaking it up but it was so high he could not get there. 100% on Alex, anyone who blames this on Crabtree's route running is a complete bufoon.


4th quarter

9:19 1st and 10

5 step drop, Crabtree is in the slot running down the seam. Smith's throw is so bad it's laughable, about 6-7 feet over Crabtree's head and once again Crabtree has to contort his body in mid-air to attempt to catch it. Luckily, this one fell to the ground because it very easily could have been another pick.



So to recap, 6 of the 8 off target throws were incomplete. 2 of them were caught by Crabtree but very likely prevented him from gaining as much YAC as possible if they had been accurate, on time throws.

Keep in mind, this was Alex's worst game of the season and he had been fairly accurate before this game. Still, I would hazard a guess that if you looked at some film of Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, etc.... they have no games that were as inaccurate as this one from Smith.
Welcome back from your banishment. I'll enjoy going through this later.
[ Edited by oldman9er on Oct 20, 2011 at 1:39 PM ]
1st quarter11:05, 2nd and 19
Quick hitch to Ginn is delivered too late and well too high. Yes, I think it grazed Ginn's finger tips but being that he is only 5'10, it was a pretty impossible catch considering the velocity it was thrown at and Ginn could only get fingertips on it.


Been talked about already. What we know is the pass was an inch or two high. What we don't know if Ginn ran the route a yard short or if his top vertical is better than 20".

3 step drop, quick out to Crabtree completed for 7 yards.
This throw was a tad late and high as well. Crabtree does a good job of hauling it in, and there was probably some room for some extra YAC had this ball been thrown at the numbers and on time.


OMG, are you kidding me? You're attacking a completed pass because Crabtree had to actually extend his arms out for it????

I think we're done here, and see where this is going. Unbelievable!



Okay, just for fun... the next two on your list.

3rd Quarter14:56 1st and 10
Checkdown throw to Gore is incomplete. Throw is a wobbler and is at Gore's shoelaces when he tries to make the catch. I'd probably place 80% of this on Smith and 20% on Gore for not catching it at his shoelaces

Truth. No disagreement on this one.


.9:32 3rd and 9Incomplete to Delanie Walker wide open in the end zone. 50/50 blame on this one. Delanie drops it but he was so wide open it is partly on Smith for throwing it at his ankle instead of hitting him in the numbers.


Absolutely 100% ridiculous. The ball was lined up waist-high as he puts hands on it. It is remarkable that you could possibly see anything else. This type of comment cripples any chance of credibility. You had to know that I would check, no? Again... Unbelievable.
[ Edited by oldman9er on Oct 20, 2011 at 1:56 PM ]
5:30 3rd and 13Shotgun, 27 yard completion to Michael Crabtree against zone coverage.
Again, this throw is way too high and slightly behind Crabtree causing him to contort his body in mid air to make a stunning catch. Had this been on time and accurate, again, there would have been a lot of room for some YAC.


another completed pass that did require some vertical from his WR. Oh no! Again... you have got to be kidding me. Pro receivers are supposed to make those catches. How do we even know Crabtree didn't flatten out the route because he simply chose to jump for it? He could have even continued running, but simply chose to go up rather than take a couple more steps.

4:45 2nd and 10Quick hitch to Crabtree is incomplete to the right side.
This is another instance where it grazed the receiver's finger tips but the ball is thrown at a high enough velocity to make the catch damn near impossible to grab. This was also classic mechanics fail, as Smith did not slide his feet so he could step up, causing the throw to sail when throwing off the back foot. Anyone who calls this "a dropppp" is ill-informed on QB mechanics and their opinion shall be rendered useless.


This is JUST like the Ginn one early on, and NEITHER were included in my drop-count.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
1st quarter11:05, 2nd and 19
Quick hitch to Ginn is delivered too late and well too high. Yes, I think it grazed Ginn's finger tips but being that he is only 5'10, it was a pretty impossible catch considering the velocity it was thrown at and Ginn could only get fingertips on it.


Been talked about already. What we know is the pass was an inch or two high. What we don't know if Ginn ran the route a yard short or if his top vertical is better than 20".

3 step drop, quick out to Crabtree completed for 7 yards.
This throw was a tad late and high as well. Crabtree does a good job of hauling it in, and there was probably some room for some extra YAC had this ball been thrown at the numbers and on time.


OMG, are you kidding me? You're attacking a completed pass because Crabtree had to actually extend his arms out for it????

I think we're done here, and see where this is going. Unbelievable!




Been talked about already. What we know is the pass was an inch or two high. What we don't know if Ginn ran the route a yard short or if his top vertical is better than 20".


Bias. You mention you don't know what his vertical is. Again, that doesn't matter. The fact that he even had to jump for it makes it an "off target throw".


OMG, are you kidding me? You're attacking a completed pass because Crabtree had to actually extend his arms out for it???? I think we're done here, and see where this is going. Unbelievable!


I'm attacking the pass because it was high and late. had it been a little lower and had he gotten the ball out quicker there was a possibility for a few more yards of YAC. I never said this was a "horrible" throw. It's the fact that it was off target. The elite QB's throw the ball at the numbers, especially on throws that are that short.

.9:32 3rd and 9Incomplete to Delanie Walker wide open in the end zone. 50/50 blame on this one. Delanie drops it but he was so wide open it is partly on Smith for throwing it at his ankle instead of hitting him in the numbers.


Actually, you have already lost credibility due to the fact that you only count drops but not off target throws. It shows that you want to paint a picture that Alex has had to deal bad things, but the last thread I posted in you wanted "no part" of counting off target throws. look at your posts. You are the biggest Alex fan on here. Nothing wrong with that, but it is biased.

As for the throw, I said it was 50/50. It was no doubt a drop, certainly more of a drop then the high lasers off finger tips that you count. The fact remains that it was a floater and Delanie had to wait on it longer while his momentum was carrying him closer to the sideline. Maybe perhaps this is a 75-25 thing with 75% on delanie, but the fact that you think this throw was perfect is truly laughable.
Originally posted by OffTargetThrows:
Since we count drops here, thought it would only be fair to count off target throws to keep everything unbiased.

Off Target Throws from Detroit game


1st quarter

11:05, 2nd and 19
Quick hitch to Ginn is delivered too late and well too high. Yes, I think it grazed Ginn's finger tips but being that he is only 5'10, it was a pretty impossible catch considering the velocity it was thrown at and Ginn could only get fingertips on it.

8:23 2nd and 12

3 step drop, quick out to Crabtree completed for 7 yards. This throw was a tad late and high as well. Crabtree does a good job of hauling it in, and there was probably some room for some extra YAC had this ball been thrown at the numbers and on time.


2nd Quarter

None .


3rd Quarter

14:56 1st and 10

Checkdown throw to Gore is incomplete. Throw is a wobbler and is at Gore's shoelaces when he tries to make the catch. I'd probably place 80% of this on Smith and 20% on Gore for not catching it at his shoelaces.

9:32 3rd and 9

Incomplete to Delanie Walker wide open in the end zone. 50/50 blame on this one. Delanie drops it but he was so wide open it is partly on Smith for throwing it at his ankle instead of hitting him in the numbers.

5:30 3rd and 13

Shotgun, 27 yard completion to Michael Crabtree against zone coverage. Again, this throw is way too high and slightly behind Crabtree causing him to contort his body in mid air to make a stunning catch. Had this been on time and accurate, again, there would have been a lot of room for some YAC.

4:45 2nd and 10

Quick hitch to Crabtree is incomplete to the right side. This is another instance where it grazed the receiver's finger tips but the ball is thrown at a high enough velocity to make the catch damn near impossible to grab. This was also classic mechanics fail, as Smith did not slide his feet so he could step up, causing the throw to sail when throwing off the back foot. Anyone who calls this "a dropppp" is ill-informed on QB mechanics and their opinion shall be rendered useless.

1:54 2nd and 11

Play action throw to Crabtree is an interception. Route is a deep dig, and Crabtree beat the press off the LOS and was open. The rush was closing on Alex so he attempted to step up but had another mechanics fail, as he dropped his shoulder before releasing the ball, casuing it to sail. Crabtree, who has had a knack this season for making these ridiculous catches above his head, was inches from breaking it up but it was so high he could not get there. 100% on Alex, anyone who blames this on Crabtree's route running is a complete bufoon.


4th quarter

9:19 1st and 10

5 step drop, Crabtree is in the slot running down the seam. Smith's throw is so bad it's laughable, about 6-7 feet over Crabtree's head and once again Crabtree has to contort his body in mid-air to attempt to catch it. Luckily, this one fell to the ground because it very easily could have been another pick.



So to recap, 6 of the 8 off target throws were incomplete. 2 of them were caught by Crabtree but very likely prevented him from gaining as much YAC as possible if they had been accurate, on time throws.

Keep in mind, this was Alex's worst game of the season and he had been fairly accurate before this game. Still, I would hazard a guess that if you looked at some film of Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, etc.... they have no games that were as inaccurate as this one from Smith.

Man you are blind if you think that dropped TD pass was a bad throw, didn't take you long to make up a new account and jump right back into it feet first. Ignorant posts like this give you away every time you show back up here, just cannot let go of the past can you? Well if it keeps your peepee hard to make willfully ignorant posts like this have at it, but it makes you look like you have no objectivity whatsoever, which I guess is the case.
1:54 2nd and 11Play action throw to Crabtree is an interception.
Route is a deep dig, and Crabtree beat the press off the LOS and was open. The rush was closing on Alex so he attempted to step up but had another mechanics fail, as he dropped his shoulder before releasing the ball, casuing it to sail. Crabtree, who has had a knack this season for making these ridiculous catches above his head, was inches from breaking it up but it was so high he could not get there. 100% on Alex, anyone who blames this on Crabtree's route running is a complete bufoon.


No, pretty much agree with this one, and have all along. Just a pass that sailed on Alex. That's on him. I thought someone here stated that Alex claimed there was a communication issue between he and Crabs. I don't know... never read that myself. It would be a first for Alex to blame anyone if he screwed up... but I still put that one on him till better evidence is proven otherwise.

4th quarter9:19 1st and 105 step drop, Crabtree is in the slot running down the seam.
Smith's throw is so bad it's laughable, about 6-7 feet over Crabtree's head and once again Crabtree has to contort his body in mid-air to attempt to catch it. Luckily, this one fell to the ground because it very easily could have been another pick.

Agreed... another sailed pass that I couldn't blame on anyone else but Alex.


* So then.... what now is the accurate count on "bad throws" ?
Originally posted by oldman9er:
5:30 3rd and 13Shotgun, 27 yard completion to Michael Crabtree against zone coverage.
Again, this throw is way too high and slightly behind Crabtree causing him to contort his body in mid air to make a stunning catch. Had this been on time and accurate, again, there would have been a lot of room for some YAC.


another completed pass that did require some vertical from his WR. Oh no! Again... you have got to be kidding me. Pro receivers are supposed to make those catches. How do we even know Crabtree didn't flatten out the route because he simply chose to jump for it? He could have even continued running, but simply chose to go up rather than take a couple more steps.

4:45 2nd and 10Quick hitch to Crabtree is incomplete to the right side.
This is another instance where it grazed the receiver's finger tips but the ball is thrown at a high enough velocity to make the catch damn near impossible to grab. This was also classic mechanics fail, as Smith did not slide his feet so he could step up, causing the throw to sail when throwing off the back foot. Anyone who calls this "a dropppp" is ill-informed on QB mechanics and their opinion shall be rendered useless.


This is JUST like the Ginn one early on, and NEITHER were included in my drop-count.

another completed pass that did require some vertical from his WR. Oh no! Again... you have got to be kidding me. Pro receivers are supposed to make those catches. How do we even know Crabtree didn't flatten out the route because he simply chose to jump for it? He could have even continued running, but simply chose to go up rather than take a couple more steps.


Hilarious. You have to be kidding me. That was one of the best catches I have seen in the NFL this year. He jumped through the roof to get it. You think Jordy nelson catches that? You think Josh Morgan catches that? Not a chance. And again, you need to be reminded that I am counting "off target throws'. I dont care if it was caught, if it was a bad throw, stopped the receivers momentum of gaining possible YAC than I am going to call it out. It was a poor throw and he got bailed out by Crabtree. Quit making more of it than it is.

This is JUST like the Ginn one early on, and NEITHER were included in my drop-count.


I highly doubt you didn't include this one and the Ginn one. You look for any excuse you can find where a receiver on this team didn't help out Alex. You proved it with the Crabtree thing. "Making a ridiculous, awesome catch is the receivers job!"

Funny, you don't see any of Drew brees receivers or Aaron Rodgers receivers getting that high in the air to grab it. You are biased. Your opinion is useless. I really don't care if I get banned, because this board is a laughing stock and you are one of the prime reasons for it.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
1:54 2nd and 11Play action throw to Crabtree is an interception.
Route is a deep dig, and Crabtree beat the press off the LOS and was open. The rush was closing on Alex so he attempted to step up but had another mechanics fail, as he dropped his shoulder before releasing the ball, casuing it to sail. Crabtree, who has had a knack this season for making these ridiculous catches above his head, was inches from breaking it up but it was so high he could not get there. 100% on Alex, anyone who blames this on Crabtree's route running is a complete bufoon.


No, pretty much agree with this one, and have all along. Just a pass that sailed on Alex. That's on him. I thought someone here stated that Alex claimed there was a communication issue between he and Crabs. I don't know... never read that myself. It would be a first for Alex to blame anyone if he screwed up... but I still put that one on him till better evidence is proven otherwise.

4th quarter9:19 1st and 105 step drop, Crabtree is in the slot running down the seam.
Smith's throw is so bad it's laughable, about 6-7 feet over Crabtree's head and once again Crabtree has to contort his body in mid-air to attempt to catch it. Luckily, this one fell to the ground because it very easily could have been another pick.

Agreed... another sailed pass that I couldn't blame on anyone else but Alex.


* So then.... what now is the accurate count on "bad throws" ?

For this game, 8. I stand by that. If you disagree with any of them, I don't really care, because I am sure there are a lot of drops you counted that I don't agree with.

Now as I said, this was Alex's worst game of the season and If I looked at the other games Im pretty sure I wouldnt catch as many as I did in this one. Overall, Alex has played decent this year. No arguments about that. I still don't think he is a franchise guy, so I would like an upgrade, but we are winning so all the power to him as long as the winning keeps coming this season. The fact remains that he still has weak pocket presence, a long release and is late on a lot of things.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/index.asp

It seems the stats did not include week 6. They now have the 9ers at 12 drops instead of 10. Only 2 drops the last game? Really? Wow....


Edit: they use STATS LLC for their..well...stats.

Yeah, those that put up the stats just don't catch everything... never do.

I see according to that link that we are also in the bottom 10 on YAC yards... sounds about right. Aside from that TB game, our boys are getting wrapped up and put down rather easily.

5-1 = yay! but they have a lot of work to do... We will be dominating teams if we can just improve drops, YAC, and penalties.

Yes, we are the only winning team with as many drops or as little yac as we have....let alone both.

Speaks to our Defense, our Running game..and Alex's accuracy this season. As much talent as we have at WR and TE you'd think we would be blowing up the yac and have very little in the way of drops. At least they are getting open. I remember when Alex first started it was an achievement just to find an open man.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Yes, we are the only winning team with as many drops or as little yac as we have....let alone both.

Speaks to our Defense, our Running game..and Alex's accuracy this season. As much talent as we have at WR and TE you'd think we would be blowing up the yac and have very little in the way of drops. At least they are getting open. I remember when Alex first started it was an achievement just to find an open man.

Truly laughable statement. We won the DET game despite Alex's accuracy.
Originally posted by OffTargetThrows:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Yes, we are the only winning team with as many drops or as little yac as we have....let alone both.

Speaks to our Defense, our Running game..and Alex's accuracy this season. As much talent as we have at WR and TE you'd think we would be blowing up the yac and have very little in the way of drops. At least they are getting open. I remember when Alex first started it was an achievement just to find an open man.

Truly laughable statement. We won the DET game despite Alex's accuracy.


Just quit man! It's getting so tired, and old. Your a one trick pony, we've all seen the trick so many times, we get it. Nobody's clapping. Your audience has left the building, go find them!