Who would you rather have, Willis or Megatron ??

I honestly don't have an answer for this good thing I'm not a GM

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by verb1der:

But my point is, a great MLB is way more of an impact and is way more crucial piece to a championship team, that's why Ray Lewis was able to literally win one without a great WR or great QB at the helm...he still won one, even Derek Brooks at Tampa he was great, and played on a team with Brad Johnson and Keyshawn...

On the other hand....I can't remember the last time a team won a superbowl because WR was the missing piece...

Warren Sapp is what made Tampa. Derrick Brooks is an amazing linebacker, but if you're going to take away credit for Marvin Harrison or Jerry Rice because they had a great quarterback then the reverse holds true too. Warren Sapp was the most important part of Tampa's defense.

There's been great offensive teams that won with average defenses too. Indy, New Orleans. Yeah the defensive list is bigger but all I'm saying is there's not a right or wrong answer here.

Indy built their team on picking weapons. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark. These are 1st round picks, excellent wide receivers.

Warren sapp, Derrick brooks, lynch, and ronde barber??? I wouldnt call that a avg defense! They were all probowlers

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by JREED23:
If we consider Willis and Megatron the best at their respective positions, the separation between Megatron and the rest of the NFL WRs is greater than Willis and other top LBs.

No Way

yeah, I think people are thinking of "Megatron" more in terms of hype than in actual production.

Yeah, well, I'm not. Maybe you need to check his stats. Then consider who he has had throwing him the ball. Lets forget that he is on pace to have one of the best (if not the best) seasons a WR has ever had - in 2008 (2nd year) he amassed 78 catches, 1331 yards and 12 TDs with the likes of Dan Orlovsky, Jon Kitna, Daunte Culpepper, Drew Stanton and Drew Henson throwing him the ball. In his first 4 seasons he had 8 different QBs and still managed 270 catches, over 4000 yards and 33 TDs.

Who else compares to Megatron? Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and maybe Craig Jennings - Nobody else is even in the same league and the 2nd tier is still not as plentiful as it is for LBs.

Do I think Willis is a better player? Yes, but not by much. I do think that Megatron disproportionately better than the current crop of WRs in the NFL when compared to Willis' status amongst LBs. Johnson is an extremely rare type of player.

Let me ask you this - who is more replaceable?

I know that people on here are overvaluing Willis because of bias.

Who ever is throwing to CJ, take him away and you take away the threat of CJ. Willis you can limit at best but he'll still cause disruption.

Originally posted by GOLD22VEINS:
Warren sapp, Derrick brooks, lynch, and ronde barber??? I wouldnt call that a avg defense! They were all probowlers

You might want to try to reread what I said again.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

You might want to try to reread what I said again.

I gets I gets :)

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by verb1der:
But my point is, a great MLB is way more of an impact and is way more crucial piece to a championship team, that's why Ray Lewis was able to literally win one without a great WR or great QB at the helm...he still won one, even Derek Brooks at Tampa he was great, and played on a team with Brad Johnson and Keyshawn...

On the other hand....I can't remember the last time a team won a superbowl because WR was the missing piece...

Warren Sapp is what made Tampa. Derrick Brooks is an amazing linebacker, but if you're going to take away credit for Marvin Harrison or Jerry Rice because they had a great quarterback then the reverse holds true too. Warren Sapp was the most important part of Tampa's defense.

There's been great offensive teams that won with average defenses too. Indy, New Orleans. Yeah the defensive list is bigger but all I'm saying is there's not a right or wrong answer here.

Indy built their team on picking weapons. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark. These are 1st round picks, excellent wide receivers.

I see your point. I guess the question of this thread really depends on what kind of team you have set up at the moment.

Originally posted by JREED23:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by JREED23:
If we consider Willis and Megatron the best at their respective positions, the separation between Megatron and the rest of the NFL WRs is greater than Willis and other top LBs.

No Way

yeah, I think people are thinking of "Megatron" more in terms of hype than in actual production.

Yeah, well, I'm not. Maybe you need to check his stats. Then consider who he has had throwing him the ball. Lets forget that he is on pace to have one of the best (if not the best) seasons a WR has ever had - in 2008 (2nd year) he amassed 78 catches, 1331 yards and 12 TDs with the likes of Dan Orlovsky, Jon Kitna, Daunte Culpepper, Drew Stanton and Drew Henson throwing him the ball. In his first 4 seasons he had 8 different QBs and still managed 270 catches, over 4000 yards and 33 TDs.

Who else compares to Megatron? Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and maybe Craig Jennings - Nobody else is even in the same league and the 2nd tier is still not as plentiful as it is for LBs.

Do I think Willis is a better player? Yes, but not by much. I do think that Megatron disproportionately better than the current crop of WRs in the NFL when compared to Willis' status amongst LBs. Johnson is an extremely rare type of player.

Let me ask you this - who is more replaceable?

I know that people on here are overvaluing Willis because of bias.

maybe you should look at the stats, because Calvin Johnson is not in a different league than other receivers. He came in the league the same year as Dwayne Bowe, and they have similar stats. Calvin's are better, but not by much, and I think he's better. but the truth is that each of the top-ten or so wide receivers in the league don't have as much separating them as much as within the top ten Inside-or-Middle linebackers.

The top tier, elite Wr's right now would include Welker, Jennings, "Megatron," Steve Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Roddy White. You also have Reggie Wayne, Desean Jackson, Mike Wallace...and you can really mix and match that group as a "first" or "second" tier based on whatever criteria. You can't do the same with middle linebackers.

Originally posted by ace49ers:
Who ever is throwing to CJ, take him away and you take away the threat of CJ. Willis you can limit at best but he'll still cause disruption.

Couldn't be further from the truth.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by JREED23:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by JREED23:
If we consider Willis and Megatron the best at their respective positions, the separation between Megatron and the rest of the NFL WRs is greater than Willis and other top LBs.

No Way

yeah, I think people are thinking of "Megatron" more in terms of hype than in actual production.

Yeah, well, I'm not. Maybe you need to check his stats. Then consider who he has had throwing him the ball. Lets forget that he is on pace to have one of the best (if not the best) seasons a WR has ever had - in 2008 (2nd year) he amassed 78 catches, 1331 yards and 12 TDs with the likes of Dan Orlovsky, Jon Kitna, Daunte Culpepper, Drew Stanton and Drew Henson throwing him the ball. In his first 4 seasons he had 8 different QBs and still managed 270 catches, over 4000 yards and 33 TDs.

Who else compares to Megatron? Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and maybe Craig Jennings - Nobody else is even in the same league and the 2nd tier is still not as plentiful as it is for LBs.

Do I think Willis is a better player? Yes, but not by much. I do think that Megatron disproportionately better than the current crop of WRs in the NFL when compared to Willis' status amongst LBs. Johnson is an extremely rare type of player.

Let me ask you this - who is more replaceable?

I know that people on here are overvaluing Willis because of bias.

maybe you should look at the stats, because Calvin Johnson is not in a different league than other receivers. He came in the league the same year as Dwayne Bowe, and they have similar stats. Calvin's are better, but not by much, and I think he's better. but the truth is that each of the top-ten or so wide receivers in the league don't have as much separating them as much as within the top ten Inside-or-Middle linebackers.

I did check the stats, in fact that's what I based most of my assertion on. Maybe you should consider who have been throwing the ball to both of those WRs and the fact that there hasn't been many team worse in recent years than the chiefs, but the Lions are one of them. And currently, nobody is on Megatron's level.

Originally posted by JREED23:
I did check the stats, in fact that's what I based most of my assertion on. Maybe you should consider who have been throwing the ball to both of those WRs and the fact that there hasn't been many team worse in recent years than the chiefs, but the Lions are one of them. And currently, nobody is on Megatron's level.

i don't care who is throwing them the ball. The question is, "who would you rather have?" I'm basing it on the idea that you are starting a team from scratch, not just adding the player to whatever team already exists. Either way, my answer would be Willis. You can build a team around an elite MLB, and they are harder to find.

There are a lot of guys on Megatron's level. I edited my post above to point out a number of players who are Calvin's "level", but all you have to do is look through the stats. Calvin is a physical freak, but he's not the only one, and he's not the only productive receiver out there. He's a great player and I'd love to have him on my team, but gifted wide receivers are easier to find and of dubious necessity for a winning team.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by JREED23:
I did check the stats, in fact that's what I based most of my assertion on. Maybe you should consider who have been throwing the ball to both of those WRs and the fact that there hasn't been many team worse in recent years than the chiefs, but the Lions are one of them. And currently, nobody is on Megatron's level.

i don't care who is throwing them the ball. The question is, "who would you rather have?" I'm basing it on the idea that you are starting a team from scratch, not just adding the player to whatever team already exists. Either way, my answer would be Willis. You can build a team around an elite MLB, and they are harder to find.

There are a lot of guys on Megatron's level. I edited my post above to point out a number of players who are Calvin's "level", but all you have to do is look through the stats. Calvin is a physical freak, but he's not the only one, and he's not the only productive receiver out there. He's a great player and I'd love to have him on my team, but gifted wide receivers are easier to find and of dubious necessity for a winning team.

I don't know how you can say their talent is comparable to CJ. CJ is one-of-a-kind. Larry can go up and get a ball like him but Fitz does NOT have CJ's wheels. Andre Johnson is probably the closest to him in terms of size/speed/production but CJ is taller than Andre Johnson and at this point in his career faster.

I would still take Willis because I'm a Niners fan and I'm a homer, but I've gotta' give Calvin Johnson his due credit. The guy is unreal.

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by JREED23:
I did check the stats, in fact that's what I based most of my assertion on. Maybe you should consider who have been throwing the ball to both of those WRs and the fact that there hasn't been many team worse in recent years than the chiefs, but the Lions are one of them. And currently, nobody is on Megatron's level.

i don't care who is throwing them the ball. The question is, "who would you rather have?" I'm basing it on the idea that you are starting a team from scratch, not just adding the player to whatever team already exists. Either way, my answer would be Willis. You can build a team around an elite MLB, and they are harder to find.

There are a lot of guys on Megatron's level. I edited my post above to point out a number of players who are Calvin's "level", but all you have to do is look through the stats. Calvin is a physical freak, but he's not the only one, and he's not the only productive receiver out there. He's a great player and I'd love to have him on my team, but gifted wide receivers are easier to find and of dubious necessity for a winning team.

I don't know how you can say their talent is comparable to CJ. CJ is one-of-a-kind. Larry can go up and get a ball like him but Fitz does NOT have CJ's wheels. Andre Johnson is probably the closest to him in terms of size/speed/production but CJ is taller than Andre Johnson and at this point in his career faster.

I would still take Willis because I'm a Niners fan and I'm a homer, but I've gotta' give Calvin Johnson his due credit. The guy is unreal.

i never said he wasn't great, i just don't think he's singularly great. This talk of how he's "on a different level" or whatever is just hype getting ahead of itself. The TD pace he is setting is insane, but otherwise, his physical gifts are not translating to more or unusual production. And yeah, yeah, TD's are very important, but looking around the league there are several other receivers who are very close to Calvin, and many others who aren't very far behind, in terms of general production and problems they present to defenses.

Originally posted by verb1der:
I see your point. I guess the question of this thread really depends on what kind of team you have set up at the moment.

If Willis was a Lion and Calvin was a Niner and that's the only changes what team improves and what team regresses? I'm not saying I have that answer, but it's an interesting thought.

The only HOF WR worth taking over a HOF middle linebacker is Jerry Rice.