Harbaugh Calls Smith "Game Manager"

Originally posted by Afrikan:

I'm new what does this mean?

Originally posted by Afrikan:
and this is what I have a problem with...I guess some of us just have different standards. (or maybe in your opinion different views of the reality of the situation.)

I think we are a pretty good team...GREAT Special teams, and when everyone gets back, above average Defense (imo, great Defense if we could sustain drives on offense to let them rest).

I guess we are just wasting our time this year....I'd rather we let Alex try to play great and put teams away...and if he struggles, then we move on...and let the youngsters get some experience...but more importantly, see how they react......if they look obviously lost out there, even with pretty good surrounding cast....then we should make moves in the offseason to either trade for a legit QB, sign a free agent QB (Matt Flynn) or draft another one.

I just want to get this thing rolling and get us a team that tries to win, and put games away in the 3rd QTR...rather than, try to keep it close and play not to lose (EVEN IF WE ARE WINNING..lol) all the way to the 4th QTR...only to lose at the end....and that is just against bad to average teams. Against Good teams, we would get blown out.

Look if Alex can play like Shaun Hill of 09, and have these long 8 min drives with dink and dunk passes that CONVERT 1st downs and take time of the clock and rests our defense....then I would not have a problem with him being a "game manager"..because with that approach we would beat good teams as well. But we are doing HORRIBLE on 3rd down conversions...and let alone just getting 1st down conversions.

As a fan, I understand where youre coming from... but as a football enthusiast (played, coached, etc.) that just isnt how the game is played.

We had leads of 19 & 10 in the third quarter of our first two games mainly due to a stingy defense who was playing lights out... smart thing to do would be to ride that defense to a win right? Both 4th quarter drives by the SF offense in those games were time consuming and ended in scores. Against Cincy, we did try to air it out but the protection wasnt there. Add a defense who allowed like what? 100 yards to the bengals at halftime with most coming on the first drive of the game, there was no reason to try and turn that game into a shootout once our defense took over.

Are the wins ugly, hard to watch, frustrating, nervewracking, and giving flashbacks of last year's 0-6 start... totally. But the difference is this year our coaches know how to manage a game and installed just enough of an offense that can sustain a long drive when needed. I'll take the lackluster NFC west championship with how this team is playing rather than counting on Smith's arm to win, which would then be CK/Tolzein's arm by midseason along with a 4-12 record.

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:

Originally posted by Niner4ever:
True.

Superbowl teams have won with the likes of Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, and Jeff Hostetler.

Yea, and Smith is way better than all of those dudes.

Um NO he is not.

Originally posted by Niner4ever:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

I'm new what does this mean?

Ignore it. It was meant as an insult.

Originally posted by Niner4ever:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

I'm new what does this mean?

That means he's a liar and he worships liars

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 1stAndGoal49ers:

Originally posted by Blake_Fever:


1) Were the Niners the only team to experience an abbreviated off season?
2) Are the Niners the only team with a new head coach and/or offensive system?
3) Are the Niners the only team with bad O-line play?
4) Are the Niners the only team struggling to run the ball?
5) Are the Niners the only team starting a rookie QB? (oops, my mistake, Alex Smith is in year 7!)

Regardless, Smith's ceiling is being a "game manager", a role he is clearly comfortable with--be a good, obedient drone, run the play, dont improvise, dont take any chances, and whenever possible either throw the ball to the RB in the flat, or no more than 10 yards in the air to any other receiver.

Maybe Harbaugh's not challenging him because he knows this is all Smith will ever be. Yes, the Niners are 2-1, but the offense is obviously sorely lacking. And it certainly is from lack of trying.

Blake_Fever

Great post. This is what I truly believe is happening.
What It means for the 49ers this season and beyond is plain and simple. Win the NFCW, lose in the play-offs call Harbaughs 1st year a success.
Get ready for a complete off-season next year and more work on the new system. A new QB starts (Keapernick or Tolzien) and more wins next year. I love this plan.
SUPER BOWL IN 2013

fixed

Money Post......All of it!!!

Does any one actually watch the game? To open the game in our first road start at 10am this year, the first 13 of 15 plays were passing plays... That looks like trust to me. Unfortunately the line sucks, the Gore was missing pass protection and Smith started getting his jittery feet because of it... Harbs felt this and tried to start protecting against game changing plays against us rather than opening up the offense. A smart move when more and more it looked like the odds were against us rather than for us in terms of a big game changing play.

If one has actually played or coached football, you realize everything comes down to probability of success on any given play or situation. Harbaugh has been playing statistical football to a tee and so far we have a winning record, and if not for a couple defensive breakdowns would be 3-0. He has been keeping the game within the limitations of Smith, and its working so the detractors need to STFU. Smith has been key in our victories... does he put the offense on his back and air it out for 300/game, no, but has he come through everytime we needed a big play, yes.

This is basically the same team as last year with an upgraded defense and less practice, a QB with a mentor who can put him in positions to be effective without the pressure of losing the game on one play, and a Coach who is smart enough (opposed to Nolan/Sing/Raye) to play statistical football which continually keeps this team in a position to win because of his feel for the game. It's all situational, and for the entire season this team has not been in a game where winning the field position battle wasn't more important than taking risks on offense. Good coaches are the ones that make the correct statistical decision 80-90% of the time, while using his feel to win the battles when going against the stats. Coaches with an elite QB have the luxury of going away from probabilities and take more risks, but that aint us, Harbs is playing the hand he's dealt and doing a good job with a great chance of hitting the bye week at 3-3 setting up for a divisional run against opponents that are great match ups for this team.

Originally posted by 5280High:
Does any one actually watch the game? To open the game in our first road start at 10am this year, the first 13 of 15 plays were passing plays... That looks like trust to me. Unfortunately the line sucks, the Gore was missing pass protection and Smith started getting his jittery feet because of it... Harbs felt this and tried to start protecting against game changing plays against us rather than opening up the offense. A smart move when more and more it looked like the odds were against us rather than for us in terms of a big game changing play.

If one has actually played or coached football, you realize everything comes down to probability of success on any given play or situation. Harbaugh has been playing statistical football to a tee and so far we have a winning record, and if not for a couple defensive breakdowns would be 3-0. He has been keeping the game within the limitations of Smith, and its working so the detractors need to STFU. Smith has been key in our victories... does he put the offense on his back and air it out for 300/game, no, but has he come through everytime we needed a big play, yes.

This is basically the same team as last year with an upgraded defense and less practice, a QB with a mentor who can put him in positions to be effective without the pressure of losing the game on one play, and a Coach who is smart enough (opposed to Nolan/Sing/Raye) to play statistical football which continually keeps this team in a position to win because of his feel for the game. It's all situational, and for the entire season this team has not been in a game where winning the field position battle wasn't more important than taking risks on offense. Good coaches are the ones that make the correct statistical decision 80-90% of the time, while using his feel to win the battles when going against the stats. Coaches with an elite QB have the luxury of going away from probabilities and take more risks, but that aint us, Harbs is playing the hand he's dealt and doing a good job with a great chance of hitting the bye week at 3-3 setting up for a divisional run against opponents that are great match ups for this team.

Great post. It is sad we have to respond the POS thread from Fever. He must either have malaria or know nothing about football. If he would visit NFL.com and look at the stats by team, he might see the correlation between OL performance and QB performance. Alex is doing what he can despite the incompetence up front. To give the whiners an idea and see what he is faced with, Alex is being sacked 15% of attempted passes. The 49'er OL is ranked 28th in the league which might be too high. To put this in perspective, Ryan Fitzpatrick is being sacked 1% (no typo) of pass attempts, Brady 2.25% and and Hasselback 3.5%. It is no accident their OL's are ranked 1st, 4th and 5th respectively. There is not a QB alive that could be doing any better with this POS OL. Anyone who thinks there is one is smoking dope. Harbaugh is doing all he can from keeping Alex killed and alive to play the next week. He is aware of the hand he has been dealt. Stanford had the nubmer two ranked OL in the country last year. So he knows what a competent OL is supposed to look like. He can't throw them under the bus and destroy morale and any semblance of confidence they might have left. Knowledgable fans know what he and Alex are faced with. Like 5280 said so well, he is playing the percentages.

Originally posted by Niner4ever:
True.

Superbowl teams have won with the likes of Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, and Jeff Hostetler.

True, but our running game has got to improve greatly.
I wouldn't put Doug William with this bunch though, he had a good arm and played well in spite of the teams he played for. He could beat you with his arm.

Originally posted by 5280High:
Against Cincy, we did try to air it out but the protection wasnt there.

True.
The protection sucks big time.

Originally posted by verb1der:
That means he's a liar and he worships liars

Cool.
I get it now, nose is growing and caricature is bowing.

Originally posted by 5280High:
I thinks it is coming to light that our roster has been SEVERELY overated... best weapons in the league? We have VD who can be in any top 5 TE argument, then who???

-Crabs is oft injured, lacks chemisty and is inconsistent
-Edwards is a big play waiting to happen but again inconsistent, if he was really considered to be one of the best in the league then why would the jets let him walk when he only costs $1m without incentives
-O-line... hardly
- Gore, solid past 6 years but without the homerism glasses he was truly only top 5 in maybe 2 of those years, in the 5-10 range for the others... now sadly maybe not even top 15 or 20

When Alex was the #1 pick, then yes it's reasonable to expect a franchise QB... but we know how that has turned out so change the expectations to playing effectively and making plays when he has to. He can be a great game manager, not a great QB, but thats what we need right now. It's obvious by now he doesnt have the quick release, anticipation and bravado to be a gun slinger. But so what? he already busted as a #1 pick, the reality is that now he is establishing himself as a journeyman QB.

I dont see why a game manager is such a bad thing for this team RIGHT NOW. Strong D, good special teams, searching for a running game, injured WR's and limited offseason... this play may not be flashy, and it may not win against the perrenial powerhouses but it has a good shot at 8-8, optimistically 9-7 and making the playoffs. Not bad for a 6-10 team with a placeholder QB, declining RB, no line, no true #1 WR, and a half built secondary.

Honest to gawd, it's post like this that have made me hate Alex Smith the QB (not person).

Why is there such an obvious double standard? Why is it that when things go wrong it's everybody but Alex? Yet, at the end of the game when he is desperate to score all the s**tty players he has at his disposal get the job done? The Oline is the same, the WRs are the same, the TEs are the same, the RBs are the same. The only diffrence? Alex Smith decided that he has no choice but to throw the f**king ball. Get a grip people and take the blinders off.


P.S. We have a very talented offense. It's obvious that when Alex needs to, he has more than enough weapons. That Crabtree catch in the back of the endzone was amazing.

Days of importance in my mind:

The Rapture
Alex Smith off the Niners

This is amazing. I get warned to 100%, yet people are allowed to post threads like this where they make blatant errors in reading comprehension (MANAGING A GAME WELL /= LIMITED GAME MANAGING QB) in this forum.

The quality of moderation here is atrocious.

To the OP: I respect your right to state your opinion, but god dammit that doesn't mean your opinion is worthwhile or informed.

Originally posted by SDDAVE:
Great post. It is sad we have to respond the POS thread from Fever. He must either have malaria or know nothing about football. If he would visit NFL.com and look at the stats by team, he might see the correlation between OL performance and QB performance. Alex is doing what he can despite the incompetence up front. To give the whiners an idea and see what he is faced with, Alex is being sacked 15% of attempted passes. The 49'er OL is ranked 28th in the league which might be too high. To put this in perspective, Ryan Fitzpatrick is being sacked 1% (no typo) of pass attempts, Brady 2.25% and and Hasselback 3.5%. It is no accident their OL's are ranked 1st, 4th and 5th respectively. There is not a QB alive that could be doing any better with this POS OL. Anyone who thinks there is one is smoking dope. Harbaugh is doing all he can from keeping Alex killed and alive to play the next week. He is aware of the hand he has been dealt. Stanford had the nubmer two ranked OL in the country last year. So he knows what a competent OL is supposed to look like. He can't throw them under the bus and destroy morale and any semblance of confidence they might have left. Knowledgable fans know what he and Alex are faced with. Like 5280 said so well, he is playing the percentages.

Ding, ding, ding.

Winner post, here.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:

Originally posted by Niner4ever:
True.

Superbowl teams have won with the likes of Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, and Jeff Hostetler.

Yea, and Smith is way better than all of those dudes.

Really? You are pushing it, man. Your analysis and perspective are welcome here, but please refrain from attacking those who disagree with you by calling them "Alex lovers," insinuating they are gay, etc. You don't need to resort to personal attacks to make your points - you are a good poster and are more persuasive without doing so. Thanks.

Nope, didn't mean it that way....more so meant KT was lying while worshiping Alex. Now if he would have added an "imo" to it...then I'd just laugh it off. But I get what you are saying.

Let me just ask this - the Alex Haters are doing everything they can to find ways to prove he is still the worst QB in the league and HE is what is holding this team back - but besides Vernon who the heck is he suppose to be throwing to - just maybe do you think it is the people CATCHING the ball Harbaugh is not confident in? Vernon is the only one that goes over the middle and does not develop alligator arms when D player closes in - seriously Braylon could be good but he is out Crabtree gets a bruise and goes down - Morgan has okay hands but no speed to get open.

A huge part of the reason Alex doesn't push the ball down the field - none of our receiver's can get down the field and be open - now he could throw it up and hope the receiver makes a play (like Stafford to Calvin Johnson) but we have no playmaker's in the offense. Ginn has mediocre hands and runs poopy routes on GOOD days - We have no one like a welker that can make the catch over the middle and turn it on - it is a huge disadvantage.

Alex is not blowing anything up but Alex Smith is not the reason this season that the offense is struggling or doing just enough to WIN - that is our severe lack of a receiving core and the regression of the Offensive line that is the problem.

^
did Brady have these big receivers who could jump up and bring the ball down during their first SuperBowl win......these "playmakers"

or did Brady put the ball where his receivers can catch it, while still being defended? Alex has shown he can do it, here and there....pass to Williams and pass to Crabtree in the endzone.

I say we do that more early on.