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"Developing the offense" my a$$

I agree with this post 100%.

I don't think it's JH at all.

It is the QB. I've waited for 7yrs for this QB to develop but every year same s**t. Please spare me the "he had 7 OC in 7yrs" talk becuase every year we see a rookie QB that just gets it from wk 1. Example: Cam Newton...#1 pick, shortened off-season, no OTAs and first OC and HC and he has already lit it up.

But I want AS to keep Kap on the bench. Now there is a QB that needs time to learn. I'd rather have Tolzien in before Kap.
Originally posted by Blake_Fever:
Since everyone seems to be complaining about offense, why not pile on some more?

This is more than just a conservative offense, it's downright Harbaugh-ring!

But for everyone who states, "Give it time", "Offense needs to develop", "Jim's WCO needs a few YEARS to get going", I call bull$h!t.

Why?

Every team had the same abbreviated offseason and crunch to learn the system, players, and playbook. And the vast majority of teams that are in the same situation as the Niners (new QB and/or offense) are performing a helluva lot better offensively:

Carolina (Cam Newton)
Cincinnati (Andy Dalton)
Cleveland (Colt McCoy)
Jacksonville (Luke McCown)
Tennessee (Matt Hasselbeck)
Arizona (Kevin Kolb)

It's amazing how the top 2 teams listed are lead by ROOKIE QBs who, in 2 games, look more comfortable than Alex Smith EVER HAS.

Great, Smith's completion % is 70%! Great, he's avoided multiple turnovers per game! He's a freakin' game manager...great!

Spread teams out to take advantage of your above average WRs and all-world TE? Not to mention, putting your QB (aka THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE FIELD) in a situation where he's most comfortable throwing?

Nah.

Just dig deeper into Jim Raye-baugh's playbook for a litany of short passes and ineffective runs!

Honestly, I dont care who Harbaugh "doesn't trust" (if that's actually what it is), grow a set, become more dynamic, and take some chances downfield. If the crappy teams I listed above are doing it (and pretty darn effectively), there is ZERO EXCUSE why the Niners (with arguable more talent than all of them) are mired in suckage.

Blake_Fever

Well said, Thank you!
Without going into totals for every team listed in the OP's post...i will say this about Cam Newton and Carolina.

Cam Newton has 83 passing attempts, and his team has given him 135 YAC...

Smith has 44 attempts and has only been given 42 YAC by his wide receivers....

I dont even know why people insist on comparing the two. They are in totally different offensive situations.

Im not saying that Alex is good or bad...but to blame the lack of offensive production solely on him is laughable.
Originally posted by Uppercut:
I can't read internet sarcasm. Look I'm not here to start arguments and troll or any of that. I'm just frustrated.

It's cool homie... you can vent. I understand both points of view. I have supported Alex this entire time, but I'm getting frustrated also. Not really at him, but the ultra conservative gameplan the first two games. I know we are 1-1 and people are happy about that but we beat the worst team in the NFL week one with the help of two TD returns. That won't happen every week. We imploded last game because of our "play not to lose" attitude. We've had that for too many years. Lets pray that Harbaugh changes his outlook. I think Alex will do decent this year if they take off the training wheels and have a little confidence in him.
The WCO is a complex system, and it´s easier to put a new player into a system, than chaniging the system.
Obvioulsy peopel like Joe Montana, Steve Yound, jerry Rice do not know anything about the offence, their words of how it needs tme to click are simply hollow.
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
The WCO is a complex system, and it´s easier to put a new player into a system, than chaniging the system.
Obvioulsy peopel like Joe Montana, Steve Yound, jerry Rice do not know anything about the offence, their words of how it needs tme to click are simply hollow.

clearly
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
The WCO is a complex system, and it´s easier to put a new player into a system, than chaniging the system.
Obvioulsy peopel like Joe Montana, Steve Yound, jerry Rice do not know anything about the offence, their words of how it needs tme to click are simply hollow.

What do those scrubs know, it's not like any of them were actually any good in the WCO anyway.
We haven't sucked in either game dammit! We had a dry spell in each game, but we haven't been terrible. Geez Louise
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
The WCO is a complex system, and it´s easier to put a new player into a system, than chaniging the system.
Obvioulsy peopel like Joe Montana, Steve Yound, jerry Rice do not know anything about the offence, their words of how it needs tme to click are simply hollow.

You call that the WCO? Were you watching the same game as us?
Originally posted by 190836:
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
The WCO is a complex system, and it�s easier to put a new player into a system, than chaniging the system.
Obvioulsy peopel like Joe Montana, Steve Yound, jerry Rice do not know anything about the offence, their words of how it needs tme to click are simply hollow.

You call that the WCO? Were you watching the same game as us?

It is the gimped up partially installed WCO. I don't know how much you guys b***hing and moaning actually know about football, but the WCO is the most complicated offense there is. The other teams you guys are throwing up as examples might have rookie qbs, but they are all using the same system that they have been in, so only the qb had to learn anything new. This whole team is having to learn a new system, so we are behind. That we are as functional as we have been is a surprise to me. And yes Lowell, we are watching the same games, some of us just know that this is a work in progress. Joe Montana, the best WCO, qb to ever play, said it himself, we are going to have to be patient. I know this is hard for some of you to grasp being immersed neck deep in the age of instant gratification, so just look at it as an exercise in patience.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by 190836:
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
The WCO is a complex system, and it�s easier to put a new player into a system, than chaniging the system.
Obvioulsy peopel like Joe Montana, Steve Yound, jerry Rice do not know anything about the offence, their words of how it needs tme to click are simply hollow.

You call that the WCO? Were you watching the same game as us?

It is the gimped up partially installed WCO. I don't know how much you guys b***hing and moaning actually know about football, but the WCO is the most complicated offense there is. The other teams you guys are throwing up as examples might have rookie qbs, but they are all using the same system that they have been in, so only the qb had to learn anything new. This whole team is having to learn a new system, so we are behind. That we are as functional as we have been is a surprise to me. And yes Lowell, we are watching the same games, some of us just know that this is a work in progress. Joe Montana, the best WCO, qb to ever play, said it himself, we are going to have to be patient. I know this is hard for some of you to grasp being immersed neck deep in the age of instant gratification, so just look at it as an exercise in patience.

Whatever you say coach! I watched every game since Bill Walsh was hired. This sh*t doesn't look like the WCO I know. Maybe later, but not now.
Originally posted by 190836:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by 190836:
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
The WCO is a complex system, and it�s easier to put a new player into a system, than chaniging the system.
Obvioulsy peopel like Joe Montana, Steve Yound, jerry Rice do not know anything about the offence, their words of how it needs tme to click are simply hollow.

You call that the WCO? Were you watching the same game as us?

It is the gimped up partially installed WCO. I don't know how much you guys b***hing and moaning actually know about football, but the WCO is the most complicated offense there is. The other teams you guys are throwing up as examples might have rookie qbs, but they are all using the same system that they have been in, so only the qb had to learn anything new. This whole team is having to learn a new system, so we are behind. That we are as functional as we have been is a surprise to me. And yes Lowell, we are watching the same games, some of us just know that this is a work in progress. Joe Montana, the best WCO, qb to ever play, said it himself, we are going to have to be patient. I know this is hard for some of you to grasp being immersed neck deep in the age of instant gratification, so just look at it as an exercise in patience.

Whatever you say coach! I watched every game since Bill Walsh was hired. This sh*t doesn't look like the WCO I know. Maybe later, but not now.


Bill Walsh won two games his first year and his team looked at least that bad. Installing the WCO and being able to play fluidly are two very different things. Montana had two probowl linemen on his right side and perhaps the best line coach in the history of football. He was also a very special player with a very special coach--still, only two wins.

I see improvement from last year to the Seattle game, but more importantly--from the Seattle game to the Dallas game. Dallas is a much better team and Romo had a terrific end to the game that may be the game that changed him from a very good QB to a special QB. The 9ers secondary did all they could to make him look good but he still had to haul his cracked ribs out there and perform.

This is the WCO but it obviously isn't looking good, given the loss of it's top two receivers and an inexperienced and young line. By mid season the line should be much better or the players may be very over-rated. If that's the case they will need to rebuild the line next year and we will suffer through yet another down period! Hope for the best.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Sep 21, 2011 at 6:48 AM ]
Originally posted by 190836:
Whatever you say coach! I watched every game since Bill Walsh was hired. This sh*t doesn't look like the WCO I know. Maybe later, but not now.

As a student of Walsh's version of the WCO, I understand that it doesn't look like it yet. It took Walsh a couple of years to get it working and they got more time to work on it. We should see improvement as the year progresses, if we don't, I will be right there with you raising hell. For now you just have to manage your expectations, the WCO, like Rome, was not built in a day. For the record, I haven't coached in over eight years.
I can't find the dang video or article but from what I remember it was either Harbaugh or Roman who said - the wrs/tes are accustomed to running their routes behind defenders and not in front of them. I believe this showed up in the int vs dallas. The pass was intended for Morgan, had he made his cut in front of the defender, it would've been an easy pitch and catch. His body would've shielded the defender from getting to the ball and then it's up to him to do the rest and get some YAC, which is a typical WCO route. if Harbaugh can get these guys to change there mentality on these short passes then we can improve.
[ Edited by gamechanger on Sep 21, 2011 at 7:05 AM ]
Originally posted by gamechanger:
I can't find the dang video or article but from what I remember it was either Harbaugh or Roman who said - the wrs/tes are accustomed to running their routes behind defenders and not in front of them. I believe this showed up in the int vs dallas. The pass was intended for Morgan, had he made his cut in front of the defender, it would've been an easy pitch and catch. His body would've shielded the defender from getting to the ball and then it's up to him to do the rest and get soc YAC, which is a typical WCO route. if Harbaugh can get these guys to change there mentality on these short passes then we can improve.


This would explain a lot of my annoyance last two years! Kept seeing Crabtree and others cutting behind DBs, can't believe it was coached that way! Especially when your QB is knocked for not being able to loft the ball over the DBs. If you find the link please do post!