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"Steve Young never learned how to read defenses"

  • AZ9er
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,553
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Idiot.

Early on, he did rely too much on athleticism, but toward the end of his career he was carving people up. His Qb rating was over 112 in '94. You don't do that if you can't read defenses.

To this day, there are STILL people who hate Young simply because he isn't Joe Montana.

This!
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still didn't see Young as a QB that could move defenses. Young also played when there weren't many dominant teams in the NFC. When things got a little hectic from playing better teams, he really didn't play very well. His TD/INT ratio dropped in the playoffs. He went 20 TDs to 12 INTs, a 1.6 ratio. Down from a 2.2 ratio in the regular season. On the other hand, Joe's TD/INT ratio got better in the playoffs being at 2.1, up from 1.96.

We all know Steve could read defenses or he wouldn't put up numbers that he did. However, Grant goes to extremities but he does make a point that Steve's ability to read defenses is highly over rated because when defenses got tough, he didn't fair as well.

As for the SB, that was more play design, play calling and preparation per Shanahan than anything. Most of Steve's first options were open.

Yup, Steve hardly ever used those legs of his to buy time for a route to open up.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still didn't see Young as a QB that could move defenses. Young also played when there weren't many dominant teams in the NFC. When things got a little hectic from playing better teams, he really didn't play very well. His TD/INT ratio dropped in the playoffs. He went 20 TDs to 12 INTs, a 1.6 ratio. Down from a 2.2 ratio in the regular season. On the other hand, Joe's TD/INT ratio got better in the playoffs being at 2.1, up from 1.96.

We all know Steve could read defenses or he wouldn't put up numbers that he did. However, Grant goes to extremities but he does make a point that Steve's ability to read defenses is highly over rated because when defenses got tough, he didn't fair as well.

As for the SB, that was more play design, play calling and preparation per Shanahan than anything. Most of Steve's first options were open.

Yup, Steve hardly ever used those legs of his to buy time for a route to open up.

What does that have to do with being able to read defenses? What does that make Vick?
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still didn't see Young as a QB that could move defenses. Young also played when there weren't many dominant teams in the NFC. When things got a little hectic from playing better teams, he really didn't play very well. His TD/INT ratio dropped in the playoffs. He went 20 TDs to 12 INTs, a 1.6 ratio. Down from a 2.2 ratio in the regular season. On the other hand, Joe's TD/INT ratio got better in the playoffs being at 2.1, up from 1.96.

We all know Steve could read defenses or he wouldn't put up numbers that he did. However, Grant goes to extremities but he does make a point that Steve's ability to read defenses is highly over rated because when defenses got tough, he didn't fair as well.

As for the SB, that was more play design, play calling and preparation per Shanahan than anything. Most of Steve's first options were open.

Yup, Steve hardly ever used those legs of his to buy time for a route to open up.

What does that have to do with being able to read defenses? What does that make Vick?

What purpose does running around to buy time serve if you are not reading the D?
[ Edited by Jakemall on Aug 24, 2011 at 12:38 PM ]
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still didn't see Young as a QB that could move defenses. Young also played when there weren't many dominant teams in the NFC. When things got a little hectic from playing better teams, he really didn't play very well. His TD/INT ratio dropped in the playoffs. He went 20 TDs to 12 INTs, a 1.6 ratio. Down from a 2.2 ratio in the regular season. On the other hand, Joe's TD/INT ratio got better in the playoffs being at 2.1, up from 1.96.

We all know Steve could read defenses or he wouldn't put up numbers that he did. However, Grant goes to extremities but he does make a point that Steve's ability to read defenses is highly over rated because when defenses got tough, he didn't fair as well.

As for the SB, that was more play design, play calling and preparation per Shanahan than anything. Most of Steve's first options were open.

Yup, Steve hardly ever used those legs of his to buy time for a route to open up.

What does that have to do with being able to read defenses? What does that make Vick?

What purpose does running around to buy time serve if you are not reading the D?

A scrambling QB is no longer reading the D. He is looking for anyone in a red shirt: that's not reading defenses. Reading defenses post snap is starting with the initial Safety movement, understanding what coverage it is from that initial movement and moving your eyes to where the opening in the defense should be according to that movement.
[ Edited by Joecool on Aug 24, 2011 at 12:43 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still didn't see Young as a QB that could move defenses. Young also played when there weren't many dominant teams in the NFC. When things got a little hectic from playing better teams, he really didn't play very well. His TD/INT ratio dropped in the playoffs. He went 20 TDs to 12 INTs, a 1.6 ratio. Down from a 2.2 ratio in the regular season. On the other hand, Joe's TD/INT ratio got better in the playoffs being at 2.1, up from 1.96.

We all know Steve could read defenses or he wouldn't put up numbers that he did. However, Grant goes to extremities but he does make a point that Steve's ability to read defenses is highly over rated because when defenses got tough, he didn't fair as well.

As for the SB, that was more play design, play calling and preparation per Shanahan than anything. Most of Steve's first options were open.

Yup, Steve hardly ever used those legs of his to buy time for a route to open up.

What does that have to do with being able to read defenses? What does that make Vick?

What purpose does running around to buy time serve if you are not reading the D?

A scrambling QB is no longer reading the D. He is looking for anyone in a red shirt: that's not reading defenses. Reading defenses post snap is starting with the initial Safety movement, understanding what coverage it is from that initial movement and moving your eyes to where the opening in the defense should be according to that movement.

I would disagree. reading the defense doesn't stop once the 3,5 or even 7 step drop back finishes. It goes all the way until the QB decides to release the ball or tuck it under his arm and run with it.
[ Edited by Jakemall on Aug 24, 2011 at 1:29 PM ]
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
one word about Napier, "Dip$h!t".

yeah, hes a total moron. even Kings fans up here are ashamed of him sometimes. its like they all acknowledge hes a moron, but love him as the Kings horribly biased announcer.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
from Grant Napier on KHTK 1140 Sacramento....wow

also, "one of the worst hall of fame qb's at reading defenses, relied on his athleticism for his success"

i'm paraphrasing from what i just heard on the radio. does his statement have any validity to it?

He's the idiot that announces for the Queens, right? Loser team, loser announcer, shouldn't be allowed to comment on a winning QB. Simple as that

And to address the point, Steve was one of the best at his position among his contemporaries at reading defenses. You don't have one of the lowest int rates for three straight years when you are terrible at reading defenses.

What a moron.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I still didn't see Young as a QB that could move defenses. Young also played when there weren't many dominant teams in the NFC. When things got a little hectic from playing better teams, he really didn't play very well. His TD/INT ratio dropped in the playoffs. He went 20 TDs to 12 INTs, a 1.6 ratio. Down from a 2.2 ratio in the regular season. On the other hand, Joe's TD/INT ratio got better in the playoffs being at 2.1, up from 1.96.

We all know Steve could read defenses or he wouldn't put up numbers that he did. However, Grant goes to extremities but he does make a point that Steve's ability to read defenses is highly over rated because when defenses got tough, he didn't fair as well.

As for the SB, that was more play design, play calling and preparation per Shanahan than anything. Most of Steve's first options were open.

Yup, Steve hardly ever used those legs of his to buy time for a route to open up.

What does that have to do with being able to read defenses? What does that make Vick?

What purpose does running around to buy time serve if you are not reading the D?

A scrambling QB is no longer reading the D. He is looking for anyone in a red shirt: that's not reading defenses. Reading defenses post snap is starting with the initial Safety movement, understanding what coverage it is from that initial movement and moving your eyes to where the opening in the defense should be according to that movement.

I would disagree. reading the defense doesn't stop once the 5 step drop back finishes. It goes all the way until the QB decides to release the ball or tuck it under his arm and run with it.

To me, reading the defense is specifically to decide which receiver will most likely be open and where to primarily go with the ball. After that, it's the trained rep practice of going through your progressions which has nothing to do with the defense. You see the first few steps of the defensive movement upon snap and tell yourself what will be open. This is why you are trained to stare the Safety down on your drop. By your third step, you should now already have a good idea of who will be open and you step in that direction on your last step. If that isn't open, now is when you robotically go through your progressions down from that receiver to the next seeing which one is open enough to throw to.

The great QB's determine the defensive cover during the drop and already know who they will throw to at the end of their drop. What they go onto do further is move the defense by looking defenders away from the guy they want to throw to.

Once a QB scrambles, that does not happen. QB's are no longer reading the defense. They are looking for their open receivers regardless of what the defense is playing because at this point, the defense has already did its job and is also scrambling to keep broken routes covered.
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,285
What a lot of people ignore is our defense wasn't as good during the Young years as the Montana years except for 1994. They usually couldn't stop the Packers and the Cowboys when it counted. If we had Wright, Williamson, Lott and Hicks in the secondary during the Young years Steve definitely would have had more than one ring as a starter.
Originally posted by BobS:
What a lot of people ignore is our defense wasn't as good during the Young years as the Montana years except for 1994. They usually couldn't stop the Packers and the Cowboys when it counted. If we had Wright, Williamson, Lott and Hicks in the secondary during the Young years Steve definitely would have had more than one ring as a starter.

That has nothing to do with Young's play when the opponents got tougher. It has everything to do with us not being able to stop them. Even the game we won vs the cowboys, our defense gave us a lot of points but DAL still nearly came back because our offense was lacking. Young's post season numbers dropped from his regular season numbers when the teams in our division were much worse than they were in the 80's.
Also keep in mind that being a West Coast QB, Steve often didn't have to even bother with pre-snap reads, all the reads happened post snap on the backpedal. Furthermore, with guys like Rice and Taylor on the outside, if the defense couldn't stop the bread and butter slant, why would there even be a need to worry about what the defense was going to try.

Things got interesting when the defenses were able to put a clamp on Rice et al though. But that wasn't often.

Does that mean he didn't do pre-snap stuff? Of course not. You saw Steve audibling out of calls all the time, and they were good reads often.
Originally posted by kray28:
He's the idiot that announces for the Queens, right? Loser team, loser announcer, shouldn't be allowed to comment on a winning QB. Simple as that

And to address the point, Steve was one of the best at his position among his contemporaries at reading defenses. You don't have one of the lowest int rates for three straight years when you are terrible at reading defenses.

What a moron.
"IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT THEN YOU DON'T LIKE KINGS BASKETBALL!!!"
Originally posted by BobS:
What a lot of people ignore is our defense wasn't as good during the Young years as the Montana years except for 1994. They usually couldn't stop the Packers and the Cowboys when it counted. If we had Wright, Williamson, Lott and Hicks in the secondary during the Young years Steve definitely would have had more than one ring as a starter.

Agreed, it is just another case of fans not being able to comprehend the concept of team sport. Goes on even to this very day.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Agreed, it is just another case of fans not being able to comprehend the concept of team sport. Goes on even to this very day.

I agree with the concept but even with a #1 rank defense I still can't picture Alex Smith leading or even managing a team to a Superbowl victory imo.
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