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Anybody worried that Alex will rely TOO much on check downs to Gore?

The fault lies on both parties in Smith and the coaching.

I do believe Smith needs to be more aggressive at times and deliver on tough riskier throws. It just seems at times he's so worried about making a bad throw and getting an INT he would rather not make the throw at all. So you would like him to exercise caution in situations he needs to when protecting a lead late in the game or deep in your own side of the field but other times you would like him to play more loose. Seems like he's at his best when he's in situations like the second half of the Houston game where he has nothing to lose and can play completely free.

The other and bigger part to me is coaching. 3rd and 10 is not a high percentage conversion and defenses are going to make sure you throw underneath and aren't going to give up a 10+ yard play. Couple that with the lack of a "throw up there and he'll grab it" type of WR it's not totally shocking his best move was to hit Gore and hope for him to break one. Most successful offenses find themselves in 3rd and shorts more often than naught and not 3rd and long.

Basically our offense pounded Gore for 1st and 2nd down for barely gain and than asked the Smiths (Troy also) to come up with a 3rd and long conversion far too often.

With what our current offense should be in the upcoming season we should be much better in that regard since we know have a big bodied guy in Edwards that can go up and grab a ball and I believe we'll get far better use of Davis and Walker than under Raye.
Originally posted by Jikkle49:
The fault lies on both parties in Smith and the coaching.

I do believe Smith needs to be more aggressive at times and deliver on tough riskier throws. It just seems at times he's so worried about making a bad throw and getting an INT he would rather not make the throw at all. So you would like him to exercise caution in situations he needs to when protecting a lead late in the game or deep in your own side of the field but other times you would like him to play more loose. Seems like he's at his best when he's in situations like the second half of the Houston game where he has nothing to lose and can play completely free.

The other and bigger part to me is coaching. 3rd and 10 is not a high percentage conversion and defenses are going to make sure you throw underneath and aren't going to give up a 10+ yard play. Couple that with the lack of a "throw up there and he'll grab it" type of WR it's not totally shocking his best move was to hit Gore and hope for him to break one. Most successful offenses find themselves in 3rd and shorts more often than naught and not 3rd and long.

Basically our offense pounded Gore for 1st and 2nd down for barely gain and than asked the Smiths (Troy also) to come up with a 3rd and long conversion far too often.

With what our current offense should be in the upcoming season we should be much better in that regard since we know have a big bodied guy in Edwards that can go up and grab a ball and I believe we'll get far better use of Davis and Walker than under Raye.

This is my feeling. I can only hope you are correct.
Originally posted by Jikkle49:
The fault lies on both parties in Smith and the coaching.

I do believe Smith needs to be more aggressive at times and deliver on tough riskier throws. It just seems at times he's so worried about making a bad throw and getting an INT he would rather not make the throw at all. So you would like him to exercise caution in situations he needs to when protecting a lead late in the game or deep in your own side of the field but other times you would like him to play more loose. Seems like he's at his best when he's in situations like the second half of the Houston game where he has nothing to lose and can play completely free.

The other and bigger part to me is coaching. 3rd and 10 is not a high percentage conversion and defenses are going to make sure you throw underneath and aren't going to give up a 10+ yard play. Couple that with the lack of a "throw up there and he'll grab it" type of WR it's not totally shocking his best move was to hit Gore and hope for him to break one. Most successful offenses find themselves in 3rd and shorts more often than naught and not 3rd and long.

Basically our offense pounded Gore for 1st and 2nd down for barely gain and than asked the Smiths (Troy also) to come up with a 3rd and long conversion far too often.

With what our current offense should be in the upcoming season we should be much better in that regard since we know have a big bodied guy in Edwards that can go up and grab a ball and I believe we'll get far better use of Davis and Walker than under Raye.

Well thought out post, nice read man, and I agree completely. You sir..."get it"
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Definitely not...

...As u heard and should of read continuously that by design the check downs are in there. And just imagine if they run a slant route, or fade, or 4 WR set and everyone is covered. Adding the actual checkdown in this offense is supposed the leave the Rb with tons of room in the open field.

then if for some reason they always clog up the middle to look for the checkdown, then you'll have a WR that should be open somewhere or maybe even 1 on 1 coverage with a smaller or slower WR.

I say if the checkdowns get us 1st downs, no one should complain at all. you figure 3 straight 4yd checkdowns, and thats what 12 yds right there...


You hit the nail on the head. The question should be, "Will Alex have the accuracy, touch, and timing necessary to be successful in the West Coast offense?"

Originally posted by Jikkle49:
...I do believe Smith needs to be more aggressive at times and deliver on tough riskier throws. It just seems at times he's so worried about making a bad throw and getting an INT he would rather not make the throw at all...

He won't be more aggressive until he is fully confident in the play calling and receivers.
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by Jikkle49:
...I do believe Smith needs to be more aggressive at times and deliver on tough riskier throws. It just seems at times he's so worried about making a bad throw and getting an INT he would rather not make the throw at all...

He won't be more aggressive until he is fully confident in the play calling and receivers.

Well him and braylon will look good. I like it i think we finally got him some real talent! We should lock Edwards up now before alex throws 90 times his way!
read this

im not worried about smith at all with harbaugh teaching him. besides, checkdowns are a huge part of the WCO so its gonna happen a lot this year.
other Teams throw check downs on our D all the time...used to hate Westbrook back in the days
Originally posted by oldman9er:
People just don't want to face the idea that our WRs simply were not getting open very much. Watching other QBs, they all have the same issues with precise route timing and missing the exact window due to extra caution. The difference? Those WRs would attack the football as if it belonged to them. Our boys acted as if the ball should always land softly in their hands not outstretched.

Oh come on did you even watch the games last year? Smith threw the ball like s**t, All the WRs were making catches stretching out risking injury on poorly thrown balls. Crabtree got upended and landed on his neck. Morgan tried to catch everything and was beat the fk up on Smith passes. Walker, VD, same thing tried to catch those high wobblers and were blasted. Its takes some amazing bias to blame our receivers for Smiths mediocre passing.
pro bowl this year. take it to the bank! I worry about the philly, pitt, and bal games...other than those smith and the O are going to be putting up some major points/yards. finally our scrappy D is only going to have to be just that to win. BIG YEAR COMING BOYS!
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
People just don't want to face the idea that our WRs simply were not getting open very much. Watching other QBs, they all have the same issues with precise route timing and missing the exact window due to extra caution. The difference? Those WRs would attack the football as if it belonged to them. Our boys acted as if the ball should always land softly in their hands not outstretched.

Oh come on did you even watch the games last year? Smith threw the ball like s**t, All the WRs were making catches stretching out risking injury on poorly thrown balls. Crabtree got upended and landed on his neck. Morgan tried to catch everything and was beat the fk up on Smith passes. Walker, VD, same thing tried to catch those high wobblers and were blasted. Its takes some amazing bias to blame our receivers for Smiths mediocre passing.

As usual, you got it all wrong due to your own intense dislike for Alex.

Yes, I watch, record, and watch the games over and over again. Huge disparity in ability/effort from our receivers to those on most other teams. It's absolutely no surprise that Alex lost faith in throwing to his targets.
Uhh, we're installing a new offense in an aborted off-season. The protection will be screwy, and people will be running the wrong routes more than usual. I think I'd be more concerned if Alex wasn't checking down to Gore "too" regularly.
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by Jikkle49:
...I do believe Smith needs to be more aggressive at times and deliver on tough riskier throws. It just seems at times he's so worried about making a bad throw and getting an INT he would rather not make the throw at all...

He won't be more aggressive until he is fully confident in the play calling and receivers.

I agree. I don't think Smith really ever had much trust in crabtree. Not bashing him but when u look at the numbers of Morgan and vd they arent that bad. Also if you look at the later part of the season Smith and crabtree actually started getting much better statistically.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
People just don't want to face the idea that our WRs simply were not getting open very much. Watching other QBs, they all have the same issues with precise route timing and missing the exact window due to extra caution. The difference? Those WRs would attack the football as if it belonged to them. Our boys acted as if the ball should always land softly in their hands not outstretched.

Oh come on did you even watch the games last year? Smith threw the ball like s**t, All the WRs were making catches stretching out risking injury on poorly thrown balls. Crabtree got upended and landed on his neck. Morgan tried to catch everything and was beat the fk up on Smith passes. Walker, VD, same thing tried to catch those high wobblers and were blasted. Its takes some amazing bias to blame our receivers for Smiths mediocre passing.

As usual, you got it all wrong due to your own intense dislike for Alex.

Yes, I watch, record, and watch the games over and over again. Huge disparity in ability/effort from our receivers to those on most other teams. It's absolutely no surprise that Alex lost faith in throwing to his targets.

I dont think you did. If you did you would have seen the ass kicking Morgan and Crabs took going for Smiths ducks across the middle. You would have seen Morgan get crunched in the endzone on a bad call to go for it. You would have seen Gore, VD, Walker get decleated on the panicky checkdowns. You just cant honestly blame everyone involved in the offense but Alex Smith. Now youre implying Alex lost faith in his receivers Dude thank you for laughs in sharing your delusions
No, because he can't throw a dump-off pass.