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Baalke could be right

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
This is not "rebuilding". This is "no building". We are either "low-balling" free agents, or "no-balling" free agents.

We are fully prepared to go into the season with whoever is under contract, and hope that coaching makes enough of a difference to get us to 8-8 so that players MIGHT actually want to come here thinking that JH has something good in the works for the future.

As mentioned by you and I and many others, this is an unbelievably and sickeningly risky strategy that is almost sure to fail. We are going to have to hope that we can land someone good next year and that all our draft picks will help us fill in the gaps we have now...

Maybe they'll just use the comp picks as a safety net, and will trade away our tradeable picks for a starter or two.

Meanwhile, the Seahawks have built an offensive line that looks like this:
Okung-Gallery-Unger-Moffitt-Carpenter, have Mike Williams and Sidney Rice on the outside and Zach Miller in the middle of the field. They are a QB away, and will find someone either in the draft or free agency or trade next year. They are making the moves to get in position to win. We are years away from any form of contending.

At the same time, Arizona paid a big price to get Kolb, but now have a decent shot with Fitzgerald, Todd Heap, and possibly, Braylon Edwards.

I think Jim Harbaugh was a great hire, but this mythological, god-like crowning by many on the board is absurd. A nickel and dime corner starting for the Niners is not going to be able to compete with this, no matter the "greatness" of Harbaugh. Homerism has made many people's mind like pudding.

Bingo. Our OL is makeshift at best right now. We have serious issues at C and RG and it's been this way for YEARS. Meanwhile, ALL our division opponents have not only fixed theirs, but added more weapons. The WR weapons I'm less worried about because in our 4-WIDE set is half the time the same as the 2TE set, just shifted. Crabtree --- Walker ---- OL OL OL OL OL ---- Davis ---- Morgan

But again, what is our OL? ... Staley-Iupati- ? -Rachal-A.Davis. And the rest of our division ...

Seattle: Okung-Gallery-Unger-Moffitt-Carpenter
St. Louis: Saffold-Bell-Fraley-Dahl-J.Smith
Arizona: Keith-Colledge-Sendlein-Lutui-L.Brown

Note on AZ: The Zone severely underrates their line, which is much different now. And the Cards' OL was beat up when they faced us. This group is improved.
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
It's not a gutting, but it's certainly a rebuild. Gutting would involve trading away very good talent for younger guys/draft picks. I don't mind letting a lot of guys go who get paid more than we might feel comfortable with.

BUT, I can't believe we're not retaining some of the talent with at least one year f**king deals like Lawson and Franklin and Clements have received. We have plenty of cap room, and one year deals would do perfectly well to hold us over until next year's draft and free agent signing period if we want to make a splash then.

Pretty stunning to see Franklin and Lawson and Clements sign one year deals elsewhere, although part of me is thinking that if they couldn't get a long term deal in SF and get the money they wanted, they'd much rather showcase their talents on a 1 year deal on a team that actually performs well and gets media coverage.

It's easy.........they don't want Franklin, Lawson and Clements and I wouldn't either. They do not fit the new defensive scheme.

What exactly is the new defensive scheme? Fangio himself says they're trying to figure out guys' strengths and weaknesses to best fit the scheme to the roster. Those 3 players all have strengths and weaknesses to be sure, and how they fit into the scheme could most definitely be optimized by the DC
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
It's not a gutting, but it's certainly a rebuild. Gutting would involve trading away very good talent for younger guys/draft picks. I don't mind letting a lot of guys go who get paid more than we might feel comfortable with.

BUT, I can't believe we're not retaining some of the talent with at least one year f**king deals like Lawson and Franklin and Clements have received. We have plenty of cap room, and one year deals would do perfectly well to hold us over until next year's draft and free agent signing period if we want to make a splash then.

Pretty stunning to see Franklin and Lawson and Clements sign one year deals elsewhere, although part of me is thinking that if they couldn't get a long term deal in SF and get the money they wanted, they'd much rather showcase their talents on a 1 year deal on a team that actually performs well and gets media coverage.

It's easy.........they don't want Franklin, Lawson and Clements and I wouldn't either. They do not fit the new defensive scheme.

What exactly is the new defensive scheme? Fangio himself says they're trying to figure out guys' strengths and weaknesses to best fit the scheme to the roster. Those 3 players all have strengths and weaknesses to be sure, and how they fit into the scheme could most definitely be optimized by the DC

While I think Harbaugh likes to adjust to the offense's strength, I think Fangio wants pressure. Clements is not a one on one cover corner and Lawson cannot pressure. I am not sure why they do not want Franklin, but, he want's a long term contract and they do not want to give it to him plus, they want to put McDonald at DE and Sopoago at NT.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
This is not "rebuilding". This is "no building". We are either "low-balling" free agents, or "no-balling" free agents.

We are fully prepared to go into the season with whoever is under contract, and hope that coaching makes enough of a difference to get us to 8-8 so that players MIGHT actually want to come here thinking that JH has something good in the works for the future.

As mentioned by you and I and many others, this is an unbelievably and sickeningly risky strategy that is almost sure to fail. We are going to have to hope that we can land someone good next year and that all our draft picks will help us fill in the gaps we have now...

Maybe they'll just use the comp picks as a safety net, and will trade away our tradeable picks for a starter or two.

Meanwhile, the Seahawks have built an offensive line that looks like this:
Okung-Gallery-Unger-Moffitt-Carpenter, have Mike Williams and Sidney Rice on the outside and Zach Miller in the middle of the field. They are a QB away, and will find someone either in the draft or free agency or trade next year. They are making the moves to get in position to win. We are years away from any form of contending.

At the same time, Arizona paid a big price to get Kolb, but now have a decent shot with Fitzgerald, Todd Heap, and possibly, Braylon Edwards.

I think Jim Harbaugh was a great hire, but this mythological, god-like crowning by many on the board is absurd. A nickel and dime corner starting for the Niners is not going to be able to compete with this, no matter the "greatness" of Harbaugh. Homerism has made many people's mind like pudding.

Bingo. Our OL is makeshift at best right now. We have serious issues at C and RG and it's been this way for YEARS. Meanwhile, ALL our division opponents have not only fixed theirs, but added more weapons. The WR weapons I'm less worried about because in our 4-WIDE set is half the time the same as the 2TE set, just shifted. Crabtree --- Walker ---- OL OL OL OL OL ---- Davis ---- Morgan

But again, what is our OL? ... Staley-Iupati- ? -Rachal-A.Davis. And the rest of our division ...

Seattle: Okung-Gallery-Unger-Moffitt-Carpenter
St. Louis: Saffold-Bell-Fraley-Dahl-J.Smith
Arizona: Keith-Colledge-Sendlein-Lutui-L.Brown

Note on AZ: The Zone severely underrates their line, which is much different now. And the Cards' OL was beat up when they faced us. This group is improved.

Way to much credit given to rookies and over the hill vets in this analysis, with the exclusion of the Rams who are legit.

Just as an example: You're giving Seattles rookies a ton of credit yet discounting the progress of ours from last year. I cant remember but I thought you even said Carpenter was over-drafted? Dont mean to put words in your mouth if it wasnt. And Moffit is a good run blocker but a liability in the passing game until proven otherwise.

If/when we sign a center then Snyder moves to RG where our line played pretty well when he replaced Rachal. Rachal needs to be replaced but center is the easiest spot on the O-line to fill and takes smarts more than talent. Something Snyder excels at. I'd rather sign a RG and keep Snyder at Center than look for Baas' replacement and keep Rachal.

[ Edited by 5280High on Aug 2, 2011 at 18:14:32 ]
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
It's not a gutting, but it's certainly a rebuild. Gutting would involve trading away very good talent for younger guys/draft picks. I don't mind letting a lot of guys go who get paid more than we might feel comfortable with.

BUT, I can't believe we're not retaining some of the talent with at least one year f**king deals like Lawson and Franklin and Clements have received. We have plenty of cap room, and one year deals would do perfectly well to hold us over until next year's draft and free agent signing period if we want to make a splash then.

Pretty stunning to see Franklin and Lawson and Clements sign one year deals elsewhere, although part of me is thinking that if they couldn't get a long term deal in SF and get the money they wanted, they'd much rather showcase their talents on a 1 year deal on a team that actually performs well and gets media coverage.

It's easy.........they don't want Franklin, Lawson and Clements and I wouldn't either. They do not fit the new defensive scheme.

What exactly is the new defensive scheme? Fangio himself says they're trying to figure out guys' strengths and weaknesses to best fit the scheme to the roster. Those 3 players all have strengths and weaknesses to be sure, and how they fit into the scheme could most definitely be optimized by the DC

While I think Harbaugh likes to adjust to the offense's strength, I think Fangio wants pressure. Clements is not a one on one cover corner and Lawson cannot pressure. I am not sure why they do not want Franklin, but, he want's a long term contract and they do not want to give it to him plus, they want to put McDonald at DE and Sopoago at NT.

Yes, I understand that, but Clements and Lawson seem to me to be better than most of the guys that have replaced them. And at 1 year contracts, why not bring them in if we don't have better replacements?
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
It's not a gutting, but it's certainly a rebuild. Gutting would involve trading away very good talent for younger guys/draft picks. I don't mind letting a lot of guys go who get paid more than we might feel comfortable with.

BUT, I can't believe we're not retaining some of the talent with at least one year f**king deals like Lawson and Franklin and Clements have received. We have plenty of cap room, and one year deals would do perfectly well to hold us over until next year's draft and free agent signing period if we want to make a splash then.

Pretty stunning to see Franklin and Lawson and Clements sign one year deals elsewhere, although part of me is thinking that if they couldn't get a long term deal in SF and get the money they wanted, they'd much rather showcase their talents on a 1 year deal on a team that actually performs well and gets media coverage.

It's easy.........they don't want Franklin, Lawson and Clements and I wouldn't either. They do not fit the new defensive scheme.

What exactly is the new defensive scheme? Fangio himself says they're trying to figure out guys' strengths and weaknesses to best fit the scheme to the roster. Those 3 players all have strengths and weaknesses to be sure, and how they fit into the scheme could most definitely be optimized by the DC

While I think Harbaugh likes to adjust to the offense's strength, I think Fangio wants pressure. Clements is not a one on one cover corner and Lawson cannot pressure. I am not sure why they do not want Franklin, but, he want's a long term contract and they do not want to give it to him plus, they want to put McDonald at DE and Sopoago at NT.

Yes, I understand that, but Clements and Lawson seem to me to be better than most of the guys that have replaced them. And at 1 year contracts, why not bring them in if we don't have better replacements?

I think they want to move forward and take a chance. Free agency will pick up again after Thursday. Let's see what happens.
  • fly15
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,222
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
It's not a gutting, but it's certainly a rebuild. Gutting would involve trading away very good talent for younger guys/draft picks. I don't mind letting a lot of guys go who get paid more than we might feel comfortable with.

BUT, I can't believe we're not retaining some of the talent with at least one year f**king deals like Lawson and Franklin and Clements have received. We have plenty of cap room, and one year deals would do perfectly well to hold us over until next year's draft and free agent signing period if we want to make a splash then.

Pretty stunning to see Franklin and Lawson and Clements sign one year deals elsewhere, although part of me is thinking that if they couldn't get a long term deal in SF and get the money they wanted, they'd much rather showcase their talents on a 1 year deal on a team that actually performs well and gets media coverage.

It's easy.........they don't want Franklin, Lawson and Clements and I wouldn't either. They do not fit the new defensive scheme.

What exactly is the new defensive scheme? Fangio himself says they're trying to figure out guys' strengths and weaknesses to best fit the scheme to the roster. Those 3 players all have strengths and weaknesses to be sure, and how they fit into the scheme could most definitely be optimized by the DC

While I think Harbaugh likes to adjust to the offense's strength, I think Fangio wants pressure. Clements is not a one on one cover corner and Lawson cannot pressure. I am not sure why they do not want Franklin, but, he want's a long term contract and they do not want to give it to him plus, they want to put McDonald at DE and Sopoago at NT.

Yes, I understand that, but Clements and Lawson seem to me to be better than most of the guys that have replaced them. And at 1 year contracts, why not bring them in if we don't have better replacements?

I think they want to move forward and take a chance. Free agency will pick up again after Thursday. Let's see what happens.

there's nothing to pick up
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
It's not a gutting, but it's certainly a rebuild. Gutting would involve trading away very good talent for younger guys/draft picks. I don't mind letting a lot of guys go who get paid more than we might feel comfortable with.

BUT, I can't believe we're not retaining some of the talent with at least one year f**king deals like Lawson and Franklin and Clements have received. We have plenty of cap room, and one year deals would do perfectly well to hold us over until next year's draft and free agent signing period if we want to make a splash then.

Pretty stunning to see Franklin and Lawson and Clements sign one year deals elsewhere, although part of me is thinking that if they couldn't get a long term deal in SF and get the money they wanted, they'd much rather showcase their talents on a 1 year deal on a team that actually performs well and gets media coverage.

It's easy.........they don't want Franklin, Lawson and Clements and I wouldn't either. They do not fit the new defensive scheme.

What exactly is the new defensive scheme? Fangio himself says they're trying to figure out guys' strengths and weaknesses to best fit the scheme to the roster. Those 3 players all have strengths and weaknesses to be sure, and how they fit into the scheme could most definitely be optimized by the DC

While I think Harbaugh likes to adjust to the offense's strength, I think Fangio wants pressure. Clements is not a one on one cover corner and Lawson cannot pressure. I am not sure why they do not want Franklin, but, he want's a long term contract and they do not want to give it to him plus, they want to put McDonald at DE and Sopoago at NT.

Yes, I understand that, but Clements and Lawson seem to me to be better than most of the guys that have replaced them. And at 1 year contracts, why not bring them in if we don't have better replacements?

I think they want to move forward and take a chance. Free agency will pick up again after Thursday. Let's see what happens.

there's nothing to pick up

They may have a corner who covers as well as Clements right now and a Linebacker who pressures more than Lawson. That said, trades are still in play......
  • fly15
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,222
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
It's not a gutting, but it's certainly a rebuild. Gutting would involve trading away very good talent for younger guys/draft picks. I don't mind letting a lot of guys go who get paid more than we might feel comfortable with.

BUT, I can't believe we're not retaining some of the talent with at least one year f**king deals like Lawson and Franklin and Clements have received. We have plenty of cap room, and one year deals would do perfectly well to hold us over until next year's draft and free agent signing period if we want to make a splash then.

Pretty stunning to see Franklin and Lawson and Clements sign one year deals elsewhere, although part of me is thinking that if they couldn't get a long term deal in SF and get the money they wanted, they'd much rather showcase their talents on a 1 year deal on a team that actually performs well and gets media coverage.

It's easy.........they don't want Franklin, Lawson and Clements and I wouldn't either. They do not fit the new defensive scheme.

What exactly is the new defensive scheme? Fangio himself says they're trying to figure out guys' strengths and weaknesses to best fit the scheme to the roster. Those 3 players all have strengths and weaknesses to be sure, and how they fit into the scheme could most definitely be optimized by the DC

While I think Harbaugh likes to adjust to the offense's strength, I think Fangio wants pressure. Clements is not a one on one cover corner and Lawson cannot pressure. I am not sure why they do not want Franklin, but, he want's a long term contract and they do not want to give it to him plus, they want to put McDonald at DE and Sopoago at NT.

Yes, I understand that, but Clements and Lawson seem to me to be better than most of the guys that have replaced them. And at 1 year contracts, why not bring them in if we don't have better replacements?

I think they want to move forward and take a chance. Free agency will pick up again after Thursday. Let's see what happens.

there's nothing to pick up

They may have a corner who covers as well as Clements right now and a Linebacker who pressures more than Lawson. That said, trades are still in play......

I really hope we get a WR
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by msallaz51:
Originally posted by dhp318:
It's not a gutting, but it's certainly a rebuild. Gutting would involve trading away very good talent for younger guys/draft picks. I don't mind letting a lot of guys go who get paid more than we might feel comfortable with.

BUT, I can't believe we're not retaining some of the talent with at least one year f**king deals like Lawson and Franklin and Clements have received. We have plenty of cap room, and one year deals would do perfectly well to hold us over until next year's draft and free agent signing period if we want to make a splash then.

Pretty stunning to see Franklin and Lawson and Clements sign one year deals elsewhere, although part of me is thinking that if they couldn't get a long term deal in SF and get the money they wanted, they'd much rather showcase their talents on a 1 year deal on a team that actually performs well and gets media coverage.

It's easy.........they don't want Franklin, Lawson and Clements and I wouldn't either. They do not fit the new defensive scheme.

What exactly is the new defensive scheme? Fangio himself says they're trying to figure out guys' strengths and weaknesses to best fit the scheme to the roster. Those 3 players all have strengths and weaknesses to be sure, and how they fit into the scheme could most definitely be optimized by the DC

While I think Harbaugh likes to adjust to the offense's strength, I think Fangio wants pressure. Clements is not a one on one cover corner and Lawson cannot pressure. I am not sure why they do not want Franklin, but, he want's a long term contract and they do not want to give it to him plus, they want to put McDonald at DE and Sopoago at NT.

Yes, I understand that, but Clements and Lawson seem to me to be better than most of the guys that have replaced them. And at 1 year contracts, why not bring them in if we don't have better replacements?

I think they want to move forward and take a chance. Free agency will pick up again after Thursday. Let's see what happens.

there's nothing to pick up

They may have a corner who covers as well as Clements right now and a Linebacker who pressures more than Lawson. That said, trades are still in play......

I really hope we get a WR

Look for an additional TE. Harbaugh likes puting 8 in the box and using his backs as well as fast good receiving TE's to burn defenses with passes.
The plan Baalke is refering to is:


1. Make it look/appear as if we are after big free agents
2. We appear to just miss out on them and sign lesser known names
3. Let our adequate but best players go to free agency because we don't overpay
4. Keep A. Smith(QB) because he has upside( )
4. About 5 games in, when we are 1-4 blame the losses on A. Smith(QB)
5. Change to CK at QB and finish around 2-14 and blame on rookieness
6. Use the #1 pick on A. Luck
7. Baalke reveals to the public that this was his plan all along and how smart he was by fooling everyone into thinking he was attempting to rebuild, but all along was tanking the season for Luck.
8. Webzone floods with threads of "Baalke is a genius"
Originally posted by 9ers4u:
The plan Baalke is refering to is:


1. Make it look/appear as if we are after big free agents
2. We appear to just miss out on them and sign lesser known names
3. Let our adequate but best players go to free agency because we don't overpay
4. Keep A. Smith(QB) because he has upside( )
4. About 5 games in, when we are 1-4 blame the losses on A. Smith(QB)
5. Change to CK at QB and finish around 2-14 and blame on rookieness
6. Use the #1 pick on A. Luck
7. Baalke reveals to the public that this was his plan all along and how smart he was by fooling everyone into thinking he was attempting to rebuild, but all along was tanking the season for Luck.
8. Webzone floods with threads of "Baalke is a genius"

what an original thinker
I for one do not have a problem with the teams approach. Free agency can get you that one or two missing pieces but it is not the way to build your team. I do think they may have made a mistake in putting all their CB eggs in the Nnamdi basket...Once they made a decision that they would cut clements they should have started talking seriously to the top 2 or 3 CBs....This team IMO is still 2 years away. If they build solidly through the draft, use their salary cap to keep their own core and rid themselves of the dead weight they will then be in a position to utilize FA to grab that 1 or 2 players to put them over the top. I am sure that when Harbaugh and Baalke looked at everything over the offseason the plan they are executing is a long term one.
  • Jacka
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 64
If the Niners can lock up Jonathon Goodwin (Espn's #1 rated FA center) Carlos Rodgers (one of the better CB's in FA at a reasonable price) and Goldson at a fair price it wil look liek Baalke knew what he was doing. They obviously feel better about our dline with Sopoaga at nose and McDonald at LDE. Also with Aldon SMith over Lawson.

Either way it makes sense to wait it out because FA's cant even practice until Thursday. I'd much rather go this route than just frantically throw money at mediocre FA's like most of the peoplke on this board would prefer.
the zone tends to panic at times