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Harbaugh channels Walsh

To Walsh's benefit he did not have to deal with the salary cap

I'm not saying Walsh wasn't great, but it is a lot more difficult to keep strong teams together for any period of time.
Originally posted by a24hrdad:
To Walsh's benefit he did not have to deal with the salary cap

I'm not saying Walsh wasn't great, but it is a lot more difficult to keep strong teams together for any period of time.

The 9ers were a lot like the Patriots of today... I think they would have been able to keep a lot of their draft picks and that's where they did their best work. They were also proactive and had the ability to sign key players to long term contracts before they demanded too much... they were ahead of the curve on signing and releasing veterans that were past their prime. I hated it when they released (or traded) Montana, Lott, Craig... etc, but they were all at the end of their career.

The 9ers added some key players as well, but it really wasn't until the 90's that they began to break the bank for free agents (94 - WOW... talk about selling out). They didn't have to in the 80's because they were drafting well, trading for underachieving or underapreciated players and getting good value in free agency because (like the Patriots now) players wanted to play here becaue they KNEW they were going to compete for a Super Bowl.

If you look at the drafts though... its pretty amazing. 10 years from 1979 to 1989 the 9ers drafted 30+ major contributors... the players listed below were all key parts of the team... I would guess at least half of them made pro-bowls or were all pro. PLUS 4 HOF's and others that haven't made it in yet, but are/could be considered.

79 - Montana and Clark, 80 - Earl Cooper, Jim Stuckey, Keena Turner 81 - Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright, Carlton Williams 82 - Bubba Paris, 83 - Roger Craig, Tom Homoe, Riki Ellison, Jesse Sapolu, 84- John Frank, Guy McIntyre, Michael Carter, Jeff Fuller 85 - Jerry Rice 86 - Larry Roberts, Tom Rathman, Tim McKyer, John Taylor, Charles Haley, Steve Wallace, Kevin f*gan, Don Griffin (THAT WAS THE GREATEST DRAFT CLASS BY ANY TEAM EVER) 87 - Harris Barton, 88- Daniel Stubbs, Pierce Holt, Bill Romanowski, Chet Brooks, 89- Keith DeLong, Wesley Walls,

A ton of these players were drafted after round 3 as well... incredible 10 year run.
[ Edited by Pick6 on Apr 8, 2011 at 5:27 PM ]
Originally posted by Pick6:
Originally posted by a24hrdad:
To Walsh's benefit he did not have to deal with the salary cap

I'm not saying Walsh wasn't great, but it is a lot more difficult to keep strong teams together for any period of time.

The 9ers were a lot like the Patriots of today... I think they would have been able to keep a lot of their draft picks and that's where they did their best work. They were also proactive and had the ability to sign key players to long term contracts before they demanded too much... they were ahead of the curve on signing and releasing veterans that were past their prime. I hated it when they released (or traded) Montana, Lott, Craig... etc, but they were all at the end of their career.

The 9ers added some key players as well, but it really wasn't until the 90's that they began to break the bank for free agents (94 - WOW... talk about selling out). They didn't have to in the 80's because they were drafting well, trading for underachieving or underapreciated players and getting good value in free agency because (like the Patriots now) players wanted to play here becaue they KNEW they were going to compete for a Super Bowl.

If you look at the drafts though... its pretty amazing. 10 years from 1979 to 1989 the 9ers drafted 30+ major contributors... the players listed below were all key parts of the team... I would guess at least half of them made pro-bowls or were all pro. PLUS 4 HOF's and others that haven't made it in yet, but are/could be considered.

79 - Montana and Clark, 80 - Earl Cooper, Jim Stuckey, Keena Turner 81 - Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright, Carlton Williams 82 - Bubba Paris, 83 - Roger Craig, Tom Holmoe, Riki Ellison, Jesse Sapolu, 84- John Frank, Guy McIntyre, Michael Carter, Jeff Fuller 85 - Jerry Rice 86 - Larry Roberts, Tom Rathman, Tim McKyer, John Taylor, Charles Haley, Steve Wallace, Kevin f*gan, Don Griffin (THAT WAS THE GREATEST DRAFT CLASS BY ANY TEAM EVER) 87 - Harris Barton, 88- Daniel Stubbs, Pierce Holt, Bill Romanowski, Chet Brooks, 89- Keith DeLong, Wesley Walls,

A ton of these players were drafted after round 3 as well... incredible 10 year run.

So... I got to thinking 30 starters drafted in 10 years... that should be a pretty good team, so here is the DRAFTED team -
QB - Joe Montana
RB - Roger Craig - Earl Cooper
FB - Tom Rathman
WR - Jerry Rice, John Taylor
WR - Dwight Clark
TE - John Frank, Wesley Walls
OT - Bubba Paris
OG Guy McIntyre
C Jesse Sapolu
OG Bruce Collie (1985 - 5th round)
OT Steve Wallace

DL Jim Stuckey, Pierce Holt, Dewaine Board,
DL Michael Carter, Daniel Stubbs
DL Kevin f*gan, Larry Roberts
LB Keena Turner, Keith DeLong
LB Riki Ellison
LB Bill Romanowski
LB Charles Haley
CB Ronnie Lott, Tim McKyer
CB Eric Wright, Don Griffin
S Jeff Fuller, Chet Brooks
S Carlton Williamson


Ok. I know that I might be missing some.. Dwaine Board and Bruce Collie were left our originally (perhaps I should have read what was wrote before me...). Regardless wow... thats pretty impressive. Especially when you consider guys like a handful of starters that were already a part of the team in 79 and continued to play throughout the 80's.

And to add some more intrigue to the draft thing. The starting lineup for the 1989 team only had 4 (YES FOUR) players NOT drafted by the 9ers. Brent Jones (steelers), Matt Millen (raiders), Jim Fahnhorst (vikings) and Mike Walter (cowboys). Most of the guys mentioned above were starting.


Ahem,

For the record?

Bill Walsh did NOT draft Keith Fahnhorst, John Ayers or Randy Cross.

Monte Clarke made those picks.

Those players were already on the team when Walsh arrived in 1978.
Plus, the veteran players Walsh lured to come to our team, in order to build the foundation..

Ronnie Lott said it best when he told a story about his rookie year and a Defensive meeting.. he asked Hacksaw Reynolds if he can barrow one of his 8 penclis that he was holding, and Hacksaw didn't lend him and even told him that if he wants to be a great player, then he needs to learn to bring in his own pencils,..,

That's the sample that Im talkin about.. a simple old veteran setting the foundation...

If you look at our team then, and how the Patriots won Super Bowls with aging veterans all over the field, we were like mirror of one another.. and look how the Patriots are now suffering winning a big one because they don't have that veteran player..
He was a God!
Originally posted by billbird2111:


Ahem,

For the record?

Bill Walsh did NOT draft Keith Fahnhorst, John Ayers or Randy Cross.

Monte Clarke made those picks.

Those players were already on the team when Walsh arrived in 1978.

If you read my post carefully, I said the first was a list of some of the players Walsh kept, then some of the players Walsh got by trades or free agents then players who Walsh drafted.
Originally posted by HailJerry:
What gets me is how "small" the OL linemen were in the 70's. John Ayers at 238 lbs playing OG? Wow...!

Actually, though when they were drafted they were small when they started for Walsh they tended to be in the 265 lb range. Still small by NFL standards at the time. the OL at the time was generally 285 lbs with the bigges being the hogs at 300+ (well least most of them).
Originally posted by a24hrdad:
To Walsh's benefit he did not have to deal with the salary cap

I'm not saying Walsh wasn't great, but it is a lot more difficult to keep strong teams together for any period of time.

I disagree, Walsh knew who he would keep and who to let go. He never overkept a player. Case in point Charlie Young and Freddie Solomon, he could have kept them when he brought in Russ Francis and Jerry Rice, however he didn't. Those players still had at the time 2 good years left. He would also know who to bring in with FA without overspending. He also had a good second in command in John McVay.

Aside from the glory positions, the OL and DL and LB got no respect till the later years. 49ers linemen were considered to small for other teams who were often 20 lbs lighter than what the rest of the league wanted. It wasn't till Holmgren and Shanahan left that you saw smaller OL on other teams. They would have known how to tie up a player and let him go or trade him at the right time. Plus because of the winning, many players wanted to come to play for them at reduced salary, cause they wanted that SB
[ Edited by WildBill on Apr 10, 2011 at 4:18 AM ]
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by a24hrdad:
To Walsh's benefit he did not have to deal with the salary cap

I'm not saying Walsh wasn't great, but it is a lot more difficult to keep strong teams together for any period of time.

I disagree, Walsh knew who he would keep and who to let go. He never overkept a player. Case in point Charlie Young and Freddie Solomon, he could have kept them when he brought in Russ Francis and Jerry Rice, however he didn't. Those players still had at the time 2 good years left. He would also know who to bring in with FA without overspending. He also had a good second in command in John McVay.

Aside from the glory positions, the OL and DL and LB got no respect till the later years. 49ers linemen were considered to small for other teams who were often 20 lbs lighter than what the rest of the league wanted. It wasn't till Holmgren and Shanahan left that you saw smaller OL on other teams. They would have known how to tie up a player and let him go or trade him at the right time. Plus because of the winning, many players wanted to come to play for them at reduced salary, cause they wanted that SB

And that was all before the salary cap. Eddie D. would spend what was necessary. I'm not arguing that Walsh knew who to keep, but once the salary cap went into affect, the Niners over spent for years to try to keep the team together which eventually led us into salary cap hell.
Originally posted by a24hrdad:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by a24hrdad:
To Walsh's benefit he did not have to deal with the salary cap

I'm not saying Walsh wasn't great, but it is a lot more difficult to keep strong teams together for any period of time.

I disagree, Walsh knew who he would keep and who to let go. He never overkept a player. Case in point Charlie Young and Freddie Solomon, he could have kept them when he brought in Russ Francis and Jerry Rice, however he didn't. Those players still had at the time 2 good years left. He would also know who to bring in with FA without overspending. He also had a good second in command in John McVay.

Aside from the glory positions, the OL and DL and LB got no respect till the later years. 49ers linemen were considered to small for other teams who were often 20 lbs lighter than what the rest of the league wanted. It wasn't till Holmgren and Shanahan left that you saw smaller OL on other teams. They would have known how to tie up a player and let him go or trade him at the right time. Plus because of the winning, many players wanted to come to play for them at reduced salary, cause they wanted that SB

And that was all before the salary cap. Eddie D. would spend what was necessary. I'm not arguing that Walsh knew who to keep, but once the salary cap went into affect, the Niners over spent for years to try to keep the team together which eventually led us into salary cap hell.

What I am saying is that Walsh and McVay wouldn't have overspent, they would do what the patriots do trade when necessary or cut him. They would do what the patriots do. Yes Eddie D. spent money, but if you remember the salaries he gave, though it was generous it wasn't ridiculous. It wasn't till Policy and Clark took over that they overspent and put the niners in salary hell, why? Cause they couldn't eveluate talent like Walsh! Case in point, who did they draft for QB when Walsh advised them to go after Jake the Sanke? They didn't listen cause they wanted to make their own legacy. It is moves like that, the niners had to spend for talent instead of drafting and finding value in free agency.
  • jimrat
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,189
How Bill Walsh evaluates each position.
Not sure if this has been posted before but very interesting on his take on each position.
  • Jd925
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,240
Very good stuff. Thx.

I think this is from his book, Finding the Winning Edge.
Wow, absolutely fascinating. His description of a good qb sounds like the exact opposite of AS.
Originally posted by iwasright73:
Wow, absolutely fascinating. His description of a good qb sounds like the exact opposite of AS.