Fangio not impressed by Lawson (per Glenn Dickey article)

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2011/02/49ers-getting-track-lockout-looms#ixzz1EotVl8XQ

Quote:
Fangio believes in a 3-4 defense, with outside linebackers as primary pass rushers and frequent blitzes. He has apparently not been impressed by the play of Manny Lawson, now a free agent, so it’s unlikely the 49ers will try to persuade Lawson to return.

bad news i liked lawson a lot he was probally one of the best all around OLB in nfl and now were gonna have to find a replacement for him (hopefully laboy and brooks will be starters)

Lawson will still be serviceable if we were able to get someone like von miller in the draft. GB with Matthews proved that one great pass rusher can be enough and so lawson's coverage/setting the edge in the run game would still be immensely valuable. Not to mention he'd probably get more sacks with all the attention focused on Miller's way

Originally posted by NCommand:
All good points and most are fair and objective. I see the Lawson situation similar to Alex in that there is no question (minus the public support from Fangio) we'd like a better player; particularly one that fits the new system better. But regarding Lawson, we don't know how Brooks/Laboy (if resigned) will fare as FT starters or how a new rookie will perform (e.g. Quinn). Haralson, we know he's a proven specialist off the bench and a decent backup.

Fangio has 5 years of tape on Lawson to review and the Niners are making a good move to keep bodies on the roster or at least get something for them if they leave...or ensure we can negotiate a realistic contract if nobody is willing to pony-up a first round pick.

The thing we need to remember is that this is a brand new defense so they will all be starting from scratch in many ways and coverage from the OLB will no longer be required.

Could Manny suddenly become a better pass rusher that other teams need to account for with a dominant pass rusher on the other side? Probably not...he will still be single blocked like he is now but at the same time, when you add a dominant pass rusher all 10 guys will play better and could be put in better positions to succeed.

So again, all good points and many things to think about but the Niners are doing the right thing so far...

Good post.

I am curious if the 49ers have been asking Lawson to stay "lean and mean" so he can cover better. If so, my thought is that 10 pounds of muscle might make him a better pass rusher.

As you say, it will be a new defense and his role may well change.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NCommand:
All good points and most are fair and objective. I see the Lawson situation similar to Alex in that there is no question (minus the public support from Fangio) we'd like a better player; particularly one that fits the new system better. But regarding Lawson, we don't know how Brooks/Laboy (if resigned) will fare as FT starters or how a new rookie will perform (e.g. Quinn). Haralson, we know he's a proven specialist off the bench and a decent backup.

Fangio has 5 years of tape on Lawson to review and the Niners are making a good move to keep bodies on the roster or at least get something for them if they leave...or ensure we can negotiate a realistic contract if nobody is willing to pony-up a first round pick.

The thing we need to remember is that this is a brand new defense so they will all be starting from scratch in many ways and coverage from the OLB will no longer be required.

Could Manny suddenly become a better pass rusher that other teams need to account for with a dominant pass rusher on the other side? Probably not...he will still be single blocked like he is now but at the same time, when you add a dominant pass rusher all 10 guys will play better and could be put in better positions to succeed.

So again, all good points and many things to think about but the Niners are doing the right thing so far...

Good post.

I am curious if the 49ers have been asking Lawson to stay "lean and mean" so he can cover better. If so, my thought is that 10 pounds of muscle might make him a better pass rusher.

As you say, it will be a new defense and his role may well change.

I'd rather keep lawson as the cover guy and draft quinn to play the otherside and passrush. I like lawson, atleast more then i like his counterpart. Besides fangio and the texans draft that DE/Olb tweener, i hope it wasn't fangio's idea to draft him because that makes me worry. I think Quinn and miller are the best fits out of this years draft class to stand up at olb in the 3-4!

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NCommand:
All good points and most are fair and objective. I see the Lawson situation similar to Alex in that there is no question (minus the public support from Fangio) we'd like a better player; particularly one that fits the new system better. But regarding Lawson, we don't know how Brooks/Laboy (if resigned) will fare as FT starters or how a new rookie will perform (e.g. Quinn). Haralson, we know he's a proven specialist off the bench and a decent backup.

Fangio has 5 years of tape on Lawson to review and the Niners are making a good move to keep bodies on the roster or at least get something for them if they leave...or ensure we can negotiate a realistic contract if nobody is willing to pony-up a first round pick.

The thing we need to remember is that this is a brand new defense so they will all be starting from scratch in many ways and coverage from the OLB will no longer be required.

Could Manny suddenly become a better pass rusher that other teams need to account for with a dominant pass rusher on the other side? Probably not...he will still be single blocked like he is now but at the same time, when you add a dominant pass rusher all 10 guys will play better and could be put in better positions to succeed.

So again, all good points and many things to think about but the Niners are doing the right thing so far...

Good post.

I am curious if the 49ers have been asking Lawson to stay "lean and mean" so he can cover better. If so, my thought is that 10 pounds of muscle might make him a better pass rusher.

As you say, it will be a new defense and his role may well change.

I'd rather keep lawson as the cover guy and draft quinn to play the otherside and passrush. I like lawson, atleast more then i like his counterpart. Besides fangio and the texans draft that DE/Olb tweener, i hope it wasn't fangio's idea to draft him because that makes me worry. I think Quinn and miller are the best fits out of this years draft class to stand up at olb in the 3-4!

Dj43 – I don't know if Manusky asked Lawson to stay lean and mean so he could cover – “lean” is who he’ll always be (he’s 6’6”) and the only time I saw him “mean” was when he was benched for Brooks two years ago.

TheGoldDiggerrrr – there is no “cover guy” in a Fangio (or any 3-4 defense) save for a Manusky-run defense. BUT, again, Manusky may have used him that way more b/c that was his best skill-set (coverage and setting the edge up at the LOS to help Willis excel). But even then, how was he great in coverage…2 INT’s in his career? Were TE’s and RB’s shut out? Did QB’s go away from his coverage? How did we do on screen plays? You also have to figure that it doesn’t matter whether or not we have a dominant pass rusher at the WILL or (opposite of Lawson) b/c he’ll still be single-blocked either way and let’s face it, he didn’t have much success in that category over the past 5 years.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NCommand:
All good points and most are fair and objective. I see the Lawson situation similar to Alex in that there is no question (minus the public support from Fangio) we'd like a better player; particularly one that fits the new system better. But regarding Lawson, we don't know how Brooks/Laboy (if resigned) will fare as FT starters or how a new rookie will perform (e.g. Quinn). Haralson, we know he's a proven specialist off the bench and a decent backup.

Fangio has 5 years of tape on Lawson to review and the Niners are making a good move to keep bodies on the roster or at least get something for them if they leave...or ensure we can negotiate a realistic contract if nobody is willing to pony-up a first round pick.

The thing we need to remember is that this is a brand new defense so they will all be starting from scratch in many ways and coverage from the OLB will no longer be required.

Could Manny suddenly become a better pass rusher that other teams need to account for with a dominant pass rusher on the other side? Probably not...he will still be single blocked like he is now but at the same time, when you add a dominant pass rusher all 10 guys will play better and could be put in better positions to succeed.

So again, all good points and many things to think about but the Niners are doing the right thing so far...

Good post.

I am curious if the 49ers have been asking Lawson to stay "lean and mean" so he can cover better. If so, my thought is that 10 pounds of muscle might make him a better pass rusher.

As you say, it will be a new defense and his role may well change.

I'd rather keep lawson as the cover guy and draft quinn to play the otherside and passrush. I like lawson, atleast more then i like his counterpart. Besides fangio and the texans draft that DE/Olb tweener, i hope it wasn't fangio's idea to draft him because that makes me worry. I think Quinn and miller are the best fits out of this years draft class to stand up at olb in the 3-4!

Dj43 – I don't know if Manusky asked Lawson to stay lean and mean so he could cover – “lean” is who he’ll always be (he’s 6’6”) and the only time I saw him “mean” was when he was benched for Brooks two years ago.

TheGoldDiggerrrr – there is no “cover guy” in a Fangio (or any 3-4 defense) save for a Manusky-run defense. BUT, again, Manusky may have used him that way more b/c that was his best skill-set (coverage and setting the edge up at the LOS to help Willis excel). But even then, how was he great in coverage…2 INT’s in his career? Were TE’s and RB’s shut out? Did QB’s go away from his coverage? How did we do on screen plays? You also have to figure that it doesn’t matter whether or not we have a dominant pass rusher at the WILL or (opposite of Lawson) b/c he’ll still be single-blocked either way and let’s face it, he didn’t have much success in that category over the past 5 years.

To be fair he did a very good job vs Zach Miller and had an amazing diving interception. He also is so long that he has blocked punts and knocked down balls in the backfield. BTW, 2 interceptions is about on par with a number of corners.

NCommand: If there is no cover guy in VFs 3-4, what's the point of the 3-4? If you always know where the rush is coming from, what is the advantage? Just curious.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
To be fair he did a very good job vs Zach Miller and had an amazing diving interception. He also is so long that he has blocked punts and knocked down balls in the backfield. BTW, 2 interceptions is about on par with a number of corners.

NCommand: If there is no cover guy in VFs 3-4, what's the point of the 3-4? If you always know where the rush is coming from, what is the advantage? Just curious.

I personally think Lawson is one of the better cover LBers in the game, no question but the reason for that is b/c he's probably spent about X 10 the amount of his time IN coverage compared to other LBers in this league b/c of the design by Manusky and his particular skill set.

In Fangio's defense, all four LBers will be pass rushing and when a LB or DL do fake a rush and then drop back, it's only in a zone and only for a few seconds. You won't see a Spikes or Lawson chasing a RB or TE down the sideline for 40 yards unless they absolutely have too. CB's, Safeties & MLB's will have the onus of covering TE's off the LOS and RB's out in the flat. Your four LBers, particlarily your SAM and WILL will be your playmaker-positions.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
To be fair he did a very good job vs Zach Miller and had an amazing diving interception. He also is so long that he has blocked punts and knocked down balls in the backfield. BTW, 2 interceptions is about on par with a number of corners.

NCommand: If there is no cover guy in VFs 3-4, what's the point of the 3-4? If you always know where the rush is coming from, what is the advantage? Just curious.

I personally think Lawson is one of the better cover LBers in the game, no question but the reason for that is b/c he's probably spent about X 10 the amount of his time IN coverage compared to other LBers in this league b/c of the design by Manusky and his particular skill set.

In Fangio's defense, all four LBers will be pass rushing and when a LB or DL do fake a rush and then drop back, it's only in a zone and only for a few seconds. You won't see a Spikes or Lawson chasing a RB or TE down the sideline for 40 yards unless they absolutely have too. CB's, Safeties & MLB's will have the onus of covering TE's off the LOS and RB's out in the flat. Your four LBers, particlarily your SAM and WILL will be your playmaker-positions.

In short what we have been seeing from Manusky and how he uses his OLB'ers was lame. Not sure if it was his scheme or him scheming around his players talents. Would really like to see what he does with the Chargers defense. But with Fangio we are now about to see the OLB'ers unleashed to pass rush to the best of their abilities. I don't want to hear about the OLB being good in coverage. I want to hear about him having 11.5 sacks.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
To be fair he did a very good job vs Zach Miller and had an amazing diving interception. He also is so long that he has blocked punts and knocked down balls in the backfield. BTW, 2 interceptions is about on par with a number of corners.

NCommand: If there is no cover guy in VFs 3-4, what's the point of the 3-4? If you always know where the rush is coming from, what is the advantage? Just curious.

I personally think Lawson is one of the better cover LBers in the game, no question but the reason for that is b/c he's probably spent about X 10 the amount of his time IN coverage compared to other LBers in this league b/c of the design by Manusky and his particular skill set.

In Fangio's defense, all four LBers will be pass rushing and when a LB or DL do fake a rush and then drop back, it's only in a zone and only for a few seconds. You won't see a Spikes or Lawson chasing a RB or TE down the sideline for 40 yards unless they absolutely have too. CB's, Safeties & MLB's will have the onus of covering TE's off the LOS and RB's out in the flat. Your four LBers, particlarily your SAM and WILL will be your playmaker-positions.

Thanks for the answer. I can't believe how much more I've learned about football since coming to this site.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
To be fair he did a very good job vs Zach Miller and had an amazing diving interception. He also is so long that he has blocked punts and knocked down balls in the backfield. BTW, 2 interceptions is about on par with a number of corners.

NCommand: If there is no cover guy in VFs 3-4, what's the point of the 3-4? If you always know where the rush is coming from, what is the advantage? Just curious.

I personally think Lawson is one of the better cover LBers in the game, no question but the reason for that is b/c he's probably spent about X 10 the amount of his time IN coverage compared to other LBers in this league b/c of the design by Manusky and his particular skill set.

In Fangio's defense, all four LBers will be pass rushing and when a LB or DL do fake a rush and then drop back, it's only in a zone and only for a few seconds. You won't see a Spikes or Lawson chasing a RB or TE down the sideline for 40 yards unless they absolutely have too. CB's, Safeties & MLB's will have the onus of covering TE's off the LOS and RB's out in the flat. Your four LBers, particlarily your SAM and WILL will be your playmaker-positions.

Thanks for the answer. I can't believe how much more I've learned about football since coming to this site.

Amen to both of your posts! I believe Baalke and Fangio get "it" re: the OLB's in the 3-4...now we need to find that players who can do "it." That's not as easy...I'm also VERY curious to see what Manusky does here in SD with a #1 ranked defense. Will he suddenly become aggressive (non-vanilla) ala Nolan when he left SF? SF has some of the most educated and richly-rooted fans in the world; we've all learned a lot since coming here!

[ Edited by NCommand on Mar 11, 2011 at 12:02:03 ]

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
To be fair he did a very good job vs Zach Miller and had an amazing diving interception. He also is so long that he has blocked punts and knocked down balls in the backfield. BTW, 2 interceptions is about on par with a number of corners.

NCommand: If there is no cover guy in VFs 3-4, what's the point of the 3-4? If you always know where the rush is coming from, what is the advantage? Just curious.

I personally think Lawson is one of the better cover LBers in the game, no question but the reason for that is b/c he's probably spent about X 10 the amount of his time IN coverage compared to other LBers in this league b/c of the design by Manusky and his particular skill set.

In Fangio's defense, all four LBers will be pass rushing and when a LB or DL do fake a rush and then drop back, it's only in a zone and only for a few seconds. You won't see a Spikes or Lawson chasing a RB or TE down the sideline for 40 yards unless they absolutely have too. CB's, Safeties & MLB's will have the onus of covering TE's off the LOS and RB's out in the flat. Your four LBers, particlarily your SAM and WILL will be your playmaker-positions.

In short what we have been seeing from Manusky and how he uses his OLB'ers was lame. Not sure if it was his scheme or him scheming around his players talents. Would really like to see what he does with the Chargers defense. But with Fangio we are now about to see the OLB'ers unleashed to pass rush to the best of their abilities. I don't want to hear about the OLB being good in coverage. I want to hear about him having 11.5 sacks.

Damn agree with you that I don't want to hear about the Lawson being good in coverage!!!!! SS n FS can go to cover and keep defense around the TE or RB or WR..