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Alex Smith the starter next year?

Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
When bringing up numbers and stats, consider this, Alex only did decent against low ball competition, and struggled big time against playoff teams. As for the claim someone made about best QB in the redzone-please post the numbers and links before I believe that. Fact is- he didn't get into the red zone that much, else the fans wouldn't be complaining about offense production.

I will say this, Alex will if he comes back, stiffen if things don't go well and people get on his case. I have no doubt that JH can make Alex look better because of his schemes, however, he will never become a QB you can ride the shoulders on. that is my whole point. I have watch games where he misses open receivers more than he should.

Sorry, but Harbaugh's stance and talks is just a man covering his bases and the team, if they are smart, playing the game of deception that will only intensify as the draft looms closer.

nfl.com Situational Stats. Smith inside the 20 QB rating of 118.8.

nfl.com statistics Smith's 1st down% 30.1 only better than Derek Anderson and Jimmy Clausen....

Question was red zone QB rating. Not trying to wow anyone with stats as they always cut both ways. Montana had terrible stats compared to modern day QBs as far as yardage but who would you want on your dream team?
Originally posted by 1swift:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by 1swift:
Originally posted by bigmike55:
Originally posted by excelsior:
The common attitude that I get from most Alex critics is to get rid of him and get someone better. That sounds so simple on the surface. But it bespeaks a failure to appreciate how difficult it is to play QB in the NFL. It is the most difficult position to play and that is why there are so few really good ones.

Consider all of the QBs starting for about 200 major college teams. We have about 80 QBs on 32 NFL rosters. Assuming a 10 year career span, that is only 8 QB rookies going into the NFL each year. Yet, of the 32 teams, there are probably 10 that you would call "elite," the kind a 49er fan demands guide his team in the years to come. On average, that represents only 1 QB coming out of college each year. There may be a few more on rosters that someday will be considered "elite" but history suggests that it isn't many.

Some claim Alex is the worst QB in the NFL, which is a laughable claim. Others, however, complain that he is only average, which he may be, but some teams would love to have just an average QB at the moment.

Some demand that we trade for Kolb, Orton, Palmer, etc. But do not forget that there a at least 10 other teams looking to upgrade their QB and the competition for these guys will be intense and their price will be inflated.

The upshot of this discussion is that I think Harbaugh realizes this as well as any; after all he struggled to be a quality QB himself. He knows that most teams must find a way to win with a QB who is not elite.

Harbaugh probably realizes that Alex is the best available for the moment. It is not certain that Orton, Kolb, Palmer are better than him, and they will cost in valuable draft choices will be excessive, while Alex will not cost them any d/c. So until his critics can point out a truly intelligent alternative path, they should hold their tongues.

Alex Smith has been garbage for his entire career. Anyone is better than him.

Anyone? Really?

This is my only issue with the Alex Smith hate...Some haters, just as some supporters, are so blind that they'd really think ANYTHING is better than alex smith...Case and point: Troy Smith...to me Troy smith was just terrible, far worse than Alex at his worst...yet he has some feverish support just for the fact that he's not alex

David Carr? Nate? just Anyone, really? thats not the answer

Come on now, Troy didn't know enough of the playbook to be fairly evaluated; but even with his limited knowledge, he directed some nice comebacks and had a couple good games.

With as many excuses people make for Alex, I cant understand why they cannot see a simple fact like knowing the playbook helps a QB execute the O.

I think its fair to say that harbaugh is at least a good QB evaluator...HE hasnt coached a down in the NFL but i think its safe to assume he can evaluate...I think theres a very good reason why he's pretty much dissed Carr, and theres been NO word of contact with troy smith though he constantly says he's keeping all options open so to speak....troy is a joke of an NFL QB and only a Alex hater who is happy to see anyone other than #11 at QB would want him as your QB...You can do far worse than Alex is all Im saying

The problem with your logic is that people are asking Jim about Alex. He's not coming out and saying all this stuff just because he thinks Alex can be good. That's where you nut-swingers are blowing things out of proportion... He's saying positive things about Alex because reporters are asking him questions and it doesn't do any good to badmouth a player in the media. Have you heard any reporter ask Jim about Troy?

Now, I have heard the reporters ask about David Carr, and Jim threw out some nice positive things to say there too; but, that's not getting much play around here with the Alex fans...
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
When bringing up numbers and stats, consider this, Alex only did decent against low ball competition, and struggled big time against playoff teams. As for the claim someone made about best QB in the redzone-please post the numbers and links before I believe that. Fact is- he didn't get into the red zone that much, else the fans wouldn't be complaining about offense production.

I will say this, Alex will if he comes back, stiffen if things don't go well and people get on his case. I have no doubt that JH can make Alex look better because of his schemes, however, he will never become a QB you can ride the shoulders on. that is my whole point. I have watch games where he misses open receivers more than he should.

Sorry, but Harbaugh's stance and talks is just a man covering his bases and the team, if they are smart, playing the game of deception that will only intensify as the draft looms closer.

nfl.com Situational Stats. Smith inside the 20 QB rating of 118.8.

nfl.com statistics Smith's 1st down% 30.1 only better than Derek Anderson and Jimmy Clausen....

Question was red zone QB rating. Not trying to wow anyone with stats as they always cut both ways. Montana had terrible stats compared to modern day QBs as far as yardage but who would you want on your dream team?

Yeah, I was just backing up the stat that he didn't get in the red zone all that often. It's hard to get to the red zone if you cant get first downs...
  • Paul
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,726
I'm starting to think I want Smith to be our starter next year....
  • dmax
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,048
i want to see what a "real coach" can do with alex...not "nowin and dingleberry"
Originally posted by Paul:
I'm starting to think I want Smith to be our starter next year....

Troy right
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by pd24:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.

Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.

Mind = blown

Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.

Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.

Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.

Come on man are you comparing the surrounding cast of Kolb and Alex Smith from their first 20 games? Or even this years cast. Let's be real. Kolb hasn't shown that he is better than Alex Smith. He has had some good games and alot of bad ones. You don't like Alex as much because you see his weaknesses every week whereas Kolb's weaknesses are sitting on the bench. It is the classic backup QB siyndrome.

The reality is that Kolb might be better than Smith, but there is a real possibility that Kolb may be worse. If you can't look fairly at the mitigating factors in Smith's tenure with the 49ers then you aren't being reasonable or fair.

How else am I supposed to compare them? I'm not going to compare a guy with 20 games under his belt with a guy who's played 60. The only fair comparison is where they were their first 20 games. Kolb is far ahead. It doesn't matter how awful Alex's supporting cast was, he was NOT accurate and he still isn't accurate. You really think he'd be connecting on bombs to Deshaun?

Kolb reminds me of Alex if he went to Green Bay. He plays it safe and doesn't take as many chances. However, he's still pretty raw and can be developed. He looked better in College than Alex and I'd much rather give him a shot than Alex. I've seen enough of Alex to know I'm not interested in continuing with him. I've seen enough of Kolb to think he may be a viable option.

I don't believe that you have seen Kolb very much but I do believe that you have seen Alex plenty. Kolb has not shown anything. I watched almost every eagles game this year. It doesn't matter anyway.

And you are wrong about the comparison but I am sick of arguing with people who can't just lay all the chips on the table and call it how it is. I'm not trying to win some argument. All I would like to see is an evaluation that is not coming from an emotional standpoint. Take all the factors in to account fairly, and the only reason you want Kolb is because he is not Alex Smith. that is fine. I totally understand the sentiment, but don't try to prove that Kolb is better by his play. He certainly hasn't shown that at all with a much better situation.

Will you stop crying?

I think Kolb has shown ENOUGH for me to want to take a shot at him. Funny how every analyst is picking the 9ers to go after Kolb...I guess they just dislike Alex too, huh? Ask Philly fans if they'd take Alex over Kolb.

I think Kolb is better....you think Alex is...end of discussion.
It isn't a question about whether "they should go after him."

The question is: Is Kevin Kolb worth the #7 overall pick in the draft?

What say you?
  • Paul
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,726
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Paul:
I'm starting to think I want Smith to be our starter next year....

Troy right



[ Edited by Paul on Feb 17, 2011 at 1:17 PM ]
Originally posted by dmax:
i want to see what a "real coach" can do with alex...not "nowin and dingleberry"

While they only stayed 1 and done, McCarthy, Turner and Martz aren't slouches either. In fact they have proved more than Harbaugh at this point. If Alex did not pick up any tips from them, I don't think he ever will.
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by dmax:
i want to see what a "real coach" can do with alex...not "nowin and dingleberry"

While they only stayed 1 and done, McCarthy, Turner and Martz aren't slouches either. In fact they have proved more than Harbaugh at this point. If Alex did not pick up any tips from them, I don't think he ever will.

Good points.

Are people on here really thinking that Harbough is >>>> than Mike McCarthy, Norv Turner, or Mike Martz?
  • Paul
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,726
we saw what Alex did with Turner at the helm but it ended much too soon, Martz he was benched and wasn't ever really given a chance.. and with McCarthy the whole offense sucked and he was a rookie. So yes I'd say Harbaugh could do more
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by pd24:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.

Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.

Mind = blown

Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.

Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.

Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.

Come on man are you comparing the surrounding cast of Kolb and Alex Smith from their first 20 games? Or even this years cast. Let's be real. Kolb hasn't shown that he is better than Alex Smith. He has had some good games and alot of bad ones. You don't like Alex as much because you see his weaknesses every week whereas Kolb's weaknesses are sitting on the bench. It is the classic backup QB siyndrome.

The reality is that Kolb might be better than Smith, but there is a real possibility that Kolb may be worse. If you can't look fairly at the mitigating factors in Smith's tenure with the 49ers then you aren't being reasonable or fair.

How else am I supposed to compare them? I'm not going to compare a guy with 20 games under his belt with a guy who's played 60. The only fair comparison is where they were their first 20 games. Kolb is far ahead. It doesn't matter how awful Alex's supporting cast was, he was NOT accurate and he still isn't accurate. You really think he'd be connecting on bombs to Deshaun?

Kolb reminds me of Alex if he went to Green Bay. He plays it safe and doesn't take as many chances. However, he's still pretty raw and can be developed. He looked better in College than Alex and I'd much rather give him a shot than Alex. I've seen enough of Alex to know I'm not interested in continuing with him. I've seen enough of Kolb to think he may be a viable option.

I don't believe that you have seen Kolb very much but I do believe that you have seen Alex plenty. Kolb has not shown anything. I watched almost every eagles game this year. It doesn't matter anyway.

And you are wrong about the comparison but I am sick of arguing with people who can't just lay all the chips on the table and call it how it is. I'm not trying to win some argument. All I would like to see is an evaluation that is not coming from an emotional standpoint. Take all the factors in to account fairly, and the only reason you want Kolb is because he is not Alex Smith. that is fine. I totally understand the sentiment, but don't try to prove that Kolb is better by his play. He certainly hasn't shown that at all with a much better situation.

Will you stop crying?

I think Kolb has shown ENOUGH for me to want to take a shot at him. Funny how every analyst is picking the 9ers to go after Kolb...I guess they just dislike Alex too, huh? Ask Philly fans if they'd take Alex over Kolb.

I think Kolb is better....you think Alex is...end of discussion.
It isn't a question about whether "they should go after him."

The question is: Is Kevin Kolb worth the #7 overall pick in the draft?

What say you?

No.
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by dmax:
i want to see what a "real coach" can do with alex...not "nowin and dingleberry"

While they only stayed 1 and done, McCarthy, Turner and Martz aren't slouches either. In fact they have proved more than Harbaugh at this point. If Alex did not pick up any tips from them, I don't think he ever will.

Good points.

Are people on here really thinking that Harbough is >>>> than Mike McCarthy, Norv Turner, or Mike Martz?

People truly believe this.

Martz told Alex to work on his mechanics....guess Alex thought his mechanics were fine.
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by dmax:
i want to see what a "real coach" can do with alex...not "nowin and dingleberry"

While they only stayed 1 and done, McCarthy, Turner and Martz aren't slouches either. In fact they have proved more than Harbaugh at this point. If Alex did not pick up any tips from them, I don't think he ever will.

norv he learned a lot and did pretty decent our best WR was antonio bryant and we didnt have an o line (exception of smiley)

martz he didnt really get a chance to learn a lot he was injured like a week into TC
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by dmax:
i want to see what a "real coach" can do with alex...not "nowin and dingleberry"

While they only stayed 1 and done, McCarthy, Turner and Martz aren't slouches either. In fact they have proved more than Harbaugh at this point. If Alex did not pick up any tips from them, I don't think he ever will.

norv he learned a lot and did pretty decent our best WR was antonio bryant and we didnt have an o line (exception of smiley)

martz he didnt really get a chance to learn a lot he was injured like a week into TC

We know...we know...his receivers starting out were Brandon Lloyd and Antonio Bryant. Guys who had 1400 rec. yard seasons with other QB's. Such bums
[ Edited by JayBee on Feb 17, 2011 at 1:37 PM ]