Alex Smith the starter next year?

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WildBill:
When bringing up numbers and stats, consider this, Alex only did decent against low ball competition, and struggled big time against playoff teams. As for the claim someone made about best QB in the redzone-please post the numbers and links before I believe that. Fact is- he didn't get into the red zone that much, else the fans wouldn't be complaining about offense production.

I will say this, Alex will if he comes back, stiffen if things don't go well and people get on his case. I have no doubt that JH can make Alex look better because of his schemes, however, he will never become a QB you can ride the shoulders on. that is my whole point. I have watch games where he misses open receivers more than he should.

Sorry, but Harbaugh's stance and talks is just a man covering his bases and the team, if they are smart, playing the game of deception that will only intensify as the draft looms closer.

nfl.com Situational Stats. Smith inside the 20 QB rating of 118.8.

nfl.com statistics Smith's 1st down% 30.1 only better than Derek Anderson and Jimmy Clausen....

Question was red zone QB rating. Not trying to wow anyone with stats as they always cut both ways. Montana had terrible stats compared to modern day QBs as far as yardage but who would you want on your dream team?

Yeah, I was just backing up the stat that he didn't get in the red zone all that often. It's hard to get to the red zone if you cant get first downs...

You are correct that Smith did not arrive at the red zone as often as the best QBs but comparing Smith to Brady and Manning the numbers look like:

On average (per game) each QB completed red zone passes:

Smith 2.72 times
Manning 2.87 times
Brady 3.25 times

You will see that Manning is almost as bad a QB as Smith, but not quite! Aren't stats fun? NFL.com has a comparison feature that is easy to use and can waste a lot of our time...but if you're into football as much as most of us are, oh well!

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Seriously? What the hell do we have to do to get rid of this guy? Its like god decided we've had too many good QBs in our history and that we deserve him.

He might be a good guy and a solid pro one day but for this franchise to move on we NEED to get rid of him. We cannot be going into a 7th year wondering if he will become a good QB with coaching????

What on earth has happened to the 49ers that some people support his return?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WildBill:
When bringing up numbers and stats, consider this, Alex only did decent against low ball competition, and struggled big time against playoff teams. As for the claim someone made about best QB in the redzone-please post the numbers and links before I believe that. Fact is- he didn't get into the red zone that much, else the fans wouldn't be complaining about offense production.

I will say this, Alex will if he comes back, stiffen if things don't go well and people get on his case. I have no doubt that JH can make Alex look better because of his schemes, however, he will never become a QB you can ride the shoulders on. that is my whole point. I have watch games where he misses open receivers more than he should.

Sorry, but Harbaugh's stance and talks is just a man covering his bases and the team, if they are smart, playing the game of deception that will only intensify as the draft looms closer.

nfl.com Situational Stats. Smith inside the 20 QB rating of 118.8.

nfl.com statistics Smith's 1st down% 30.1 only better than Derek Anderson and Jimmy Clausen....

Question was red zone QB rating. Not trying to wow anyone with stats as they always cut both ways. Montana had terrible stats compared to modern day QBs as far as yardage but who would you want on your dream team?

Yeah, I was just backing up the stat that he didn't get in the red zone all that often. It's hard to get to the red zone if you cant get first downs...

You are correct that Smith did not arrive at the red zone as often as the best QBs but comparing Smith to Brady and Manning the numbers look like:

On average (per game) each QB completed red zone passes:

Smith 2.72 times
Manning 2.87 times
Brady 3.25 times

You will see that Manning is almost as bad a QB as Smith, but not quite! Aren't stats fun? NFL.com has a comparison feature that is easy to use and can waste a lot of our time...but if you're into football as much as most of us are, oh well!

Manning- 2 Super Bowl appearances One Victory(ring)
Brady-4 Super Bowl apperances 3 wins 3 rings
Alex Shaun Hill, Tim Rattay, JTO, Ken Dorsey-No playoff appearances

The playoffs and beyond is the only thing i am interested in now a days. Stats, Comparisons, Circumstance, Potential. I don't interest myself in it anymore. Most f us will agree he has not lived up to good standards and for most people in the area its time to move on.

Originally posted by jcashen87:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WildBill:
When bringing up numbers and stats, consider this, Alex only did decent against low ball competition, and struggled big time against playoff teams. As for the claim someone made about best QB in the redzone-please post the numbers and links before I believe that. Fact is- he didn't get into the red zone that much, else the fans wouldn't be complaining about offense production.

I will say this, Alex will if he comes back, stiffen if things don't go well and people get on his case. I have no doubt that JH can make Alex look better because of his schemes, however, he will never become a QB you can ride the shoulders on. that is my whole point. I have watch games where he misses open receivers more than he should.

Sorry, but Harbaugh's stance and talks is just a man covering his bases and the team, if they are smart, playing the game of deception that will only intensify as the draft looms closer.

nfl.com Situational Stats. Smith inside the 20 QB rating of 118.8.

nfl.com statistics Smith's 1st down% 30.1 only better than Derek Anderson and Jimmy Clausen....

Question was red zone QB rating. Not trying to wow anyone with stats as they always cut both ways. Montana had terrible stats compared to modern day QBs as far as yardage but who would you want on your dream team?

Yeah, I was just backing up the stat that he didn't get in the red zone all that often. It's hard to get to the red zone if you cant get first downs...

You are correct that Smith did not arrive at the red zone as often as the best QBs but comparing Smith to Brady and Manning the numbers look like:

On average (per game) each QB completed red zone passes:

Smith 2.72 times
Manning 2.87 times
Brady 3.25 times

You will see that Manning is almost as bad a QB as Smith, but not quite! Aren't stats fun? NFL.com has a comparison feature that is easy to use and can waste a lot of our time...but if you're into football as much as most of us are, oh well!

Manning- 2 Super Bowl appearances One Victory(ring)
Brady-4 Super Bowl apperances 3 wins 3 rings
Alex Shaun Hill, Tim Rattay, JTO, Ken Dorsey-No playoff appearances

The playoffs and beyond is the only thing i am interested in now a days. Stats, Comparisons, Circumstance, Potential. I don't interest myself in it anymore. Most f us will agree he has not lived up to good standards and for most people in the area its time to move on.

Yes, stats are fun but not consequencial compared to success in the win column. However, it is a team sport and to say that players should be fired unless they win is silly. The HC was fired, a GM was hired, and the rest will take care of itself. Those who demand that the coach agree with them and get rid of players they don't like are being...irrational. Let the coach make the decisions and if he keeps Car I will have to stomach the move until we see what happens next year. My opinion, though definate, is not very important to the 9ers...thank heavens!

Originally posted by lamontb:
another lost season if Smith starts

Bingo.

Originally posted by Envy:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Seriously? What the hell do we have to do to get rid of this guy? Its like god decided we've had too many good QBs in our history and that we deserve him.

He might be a good guy and a solid pro one day but for this franchise to move on we NEED to get rid of him. We cannot be going into a 7th year wondering if he will become a good QB with coaching????

What on earth has happened to the 49ers that some people support his return?

I dont get it either man. Here is what he said during the Q&A session:

Quote:
Q: What is your prototypical quarterback?

Harbaugh: "First of all, a competitive guy that's a winner, somebody that has great athletic instincts, somebody who is very accurate throwing the football, a quick-minded guy who can think fast on his feet and can make decisions quickly, someone who has leadership ability, an understanding of timing and can make really good decisions."

If we evaluate whether or not Smith fits his "prototypical quarterback" it is clear that he doesnt.

Is he a winner? No need to even answer that one.
Great athletic instincts? If shriveling up or rolling off to his right instead of standing in the pocket and delivering the damn ball falls under this category, then YES!
Very accurate throwing the football? 57.1% wont cut it
Quick-minded guy who can think fast on his feet and can make decisions quickly? I think this is his biggest knock. He over-thinks things way too much.
Someone who has leadership ability? Dude is quiet as a mouse and has zero leadership ability. I know you don't have to be a loud mouthed obnoxious guy (Ray Lewis), but those who aren't lead by example (B. Young) and Smith hasn't shown that at all!
An understanding of timing and can make really good decisions.- He has shown he can throw receivers open and has good zip sometimes, but he also stares them down and overthrows guys often.

I'm not going to get into it with the Alex Homers cause I'm sick and tired of doing it time after time, but I just don't understand why Harbaugh would like this guy if he doesn't fit his mold? The only explanation I can think of is Harbaugh is trying to leave the door open because of the CBA mess.

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by Envy:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Seriously? What the hell do we have to do to get rid of this guy? Its like god decided we've had too many good QBs in our history and that we deserve him.

He might be a good guy and a solid pro one day but for this franchise to move on we NEED to get rid of him. We cannot be going into a 7th year wondering if he will become a good QB with coaching????

What on earth has happened to the 49ers that some people support his return?

I dont get it either man. Here is what he said during the Q&A session:

Quote:
Q: What is your prototypical quarterback?

Harbaugh: "First of all, a competitive guy that's a winner, somebody that has great athletic instincts, somebody who is very accurate throwing the football, a quick-minded guy who can think fast on his feet and can make decisions quickly, someone who has leadership ability, an understanding of timing and can make really good decisions."

If we evaluate whether or not Smith fits his "prototypical quarterback" it is clear that he doesnt.

Is he a winner? No need to even answer that one.
Great athletic instincts? If shriveling up or rolling off to his right instead of standing in the pocket and delivering the damn ball falls under this category, then YES!
Very accurate throwing the football? 57.1% wont cut it
Quick-minded guy who can think fast on his feet and can make decisions quickly? I think this is his biggest knock. He over-thinks things way too much.
Someone who has leadership ability? Dude is quiet as a mouse and has zero leadership ability. I know you don't have to be a loud mouthed obnoxious guy (Ray Lewis), but those who aren't lead by example (B. Young) and Smith hasn't shown that at all!
An understanding of timing and can make really good decisions.- He has shown he can throw receivers open and has good zip sometimes, but he also stares them down and overthrows guys often.

I'm not going to get into it with the Alex Homers cause I'm sick and tired of doing it time after time, but I just don't understand why Harbaugh would like this guy if he doesn't fit his mold? The only explanation I can think of is Harbaugh is trying to leave the door open because of the CBA mess.

I hear you man. I don't hate the guy. I think both the 9ers and Alex are responsible for this mess but we just can't continue like this.

He cannot be the reason our offense stutters. Again.

Originally posted by RamItOn:

Originally posted by lamontb:
another lost season if Smith starts

Bingo.

he wont start

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by Envy:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:


You make potent points, but forgot that he UNDERthrows often too. At this stage, after 6 years of inconsistency and underachieving, I'm not sure Smith is rehabilitatable. Harbaugh however, is supposedly an expert on QB's, even though he may be overestimating his own ability to rehab Smith. If he can and does re-create him, he'd be Jesus (read.....Lazarus resurrected from the dead), Merlin, Svengali, Houdini, Nostradamus, Cris Angel Mindfreak and David Blaine rolled into one, and we should kneel at the altar of Harbaugh and place him at the revered side of Bill Walsh. Alive though.

Seriously? What the hell do we have to do to get rid of this guy? Its like god decided we've had too many good QBs in our history and that we deserve him.

He might be a good guy and a solid pro one day but for this franchise to move on we NEED to get rid of him. We cannot be going into a 7th year wondering if he will become a good QB with coaching????

What on earth has happened to the 49ers that some people support his return?

I dont get it either man. Here is what he said during the Q&A session:

Quote:
Q: What is your prototypical quarterback?

Harbaugh: "First of all, a competitive guy that's a winner, somebody that has great athletic instincts, somebody who is very accurate throwing the football, a quick-minded guy who can think fast on his feet and can make decisions quickly, someone who has leadership ability, an understanding of timing and can make really good decisions."

If we evaluate whether or not Smith fits his "prototypical quarterback" it is clear that he doesnt.

Is he a winner? No need to even answer that one.
Great athletic instincts? If shriveling up or rolling off to his right instead of standing in the pocket and delivering the damn ball falls under this category, then YES!
Very accurate throwing the football? 57.1% wont cut it
Quick-minded guy who can think fast on his feet and can make decisions quickly? I think this is his biggest knock. He over-thinks things way too much.
Someone who has leadership ability? Dude is quiet as a mouse and has zero leadership ability. I know you don't have to be a loud mouthed obnoxious guy (Ray Lewis), but those who aren't lead by example (B. Young) and Smith hasn't shown that at all!
An understanding of timing and can make really good decisions.- He has shown he can throw receivers open and has good zip sometimes, but he also stares them down and overthrows guys often.

I'm not going to get into it with the Alex Homers cause I'm sick and tired of doing it time after time, but I just don't understand why Harbaugh would like this guy if he doesn't fit his mold? The only explanation I can think of is Harbaugh is trying to leave the door open because of the CBA mess.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by pd24:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.

Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.

Mind = blown

Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.

Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.

Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.

Come on man are you comparing the surrounding cast of Kolb and Alex Smith from their first 20 games? Or even this years cast. Let's be real. Kolb hasn't shown that he is better than Alex Smith. He has had some good games and alot of bad ones. You don't like Alex as much because you see his weaknesses every week whereas Kolb's weaknesses are sitting on the bench. It is the classic backup QB siyndrome.

The reality is that Kolb might be better than Smith, but there is a real possibility that Kolb may be worse. If you can't look fairly at the mitigating factors in Smith's tenure with the 49ers then you aren't being reasonable or fair.

How else am I supposed to compare them? I'm not going to compare a guy with 20 games under his belt with a guy who's played 60. The only fair comparison is where they were their first 20 games. Kolb is far ahead. It doesn't matter how awful Alex's supporting cast was, he was NOT accurate and he still isn't accurate. You really think he'd be connecting on bombs to Deshaun?

Kolb reminds me of Alex if he went to Green Bay. He plays it safe and doesn't take as many chances. However, he's still pretty raw and can be developed. He looked better in College than Alex and I'd much rather give him a shot than Alex. I've seen enough of Alex to know I'm not interested in continuing with him. I've seen enough of Kolb to think he may be a viable option.

I don't believe that you have seen Kolb very much but I do believe that you have seen Alex plenty. Kolb has not shown anything. I watched almost every eagles game this year. It doesn't matter anyway.

And you are wrong about the comparison but I am sick of arguing with people who can't just lay all the chips on the table and call it how it is. I'm not trying to win some argument. All I would like to see is an evaluation that is not coming from an emotional standpoint. Take all the factors in to account fairly, and the only reason you want Kolb is because he is not Alex Smith. that is fine. I totally understand the sentiment, but don't try to prove that Kolb is better by his play. He certainly hasn't shown that at all with a much better situation.

Will you stop crying?

I think Kolb has shown ENOUGH for me to want to take a shot at him. Funny how every analyst is picking the 9ers to go after Kolb...I guess they just dislike Alex too, huh? Ask Philly fans if they'd take Alex over Kolb.

I think Kolb is better....you think Alex is...end of discussion.

I didn't say that I think Alex is better. I wasn't crying. Why bring that up? Does that make you feel better about your piss poor argument?


Will you post links of the analysts that are saying that?

Do you know a ton of philly fans to have the information that you are spewing?


You are just another ignorant fan who likes to rant without facts... sad really.

blah blah blah

It's a fact that Kolb had better numbers in his first 20 games than Alex did in his first 20. You cried and tried to make every excuse in the book as to why Kolb's numbers were better.

Don't talk about facts, then cry when they're presented to you.

Are you a teenager? I am going to try this one more time.

The problem is that you only presented SOME of the facts. That was my whole problem with your post. If you only present the facts or statistics that back up your point of view without honestly investigating all the facts then you aren't reliable. I was simply trying to point that out.

The way to measure statistics with any meaning is to use them when most or all variables are the same so that you can get an accurate reading. The variables between those two were not anywhere near the same. Even if you proved that Kolb really was a better player than Smith back then you would still have to prove that that that fact can be extrapolated to predict future success. I highly doubt it, but hey I would be open to hearing something like that if it was well researched.

A much more important statistic to use would have been their most recent performance. By that measure Alex Smith was slightly better, but neither were anything too special.

I would love it if you could respond with something intelligible, but I'm not holding my breath.

stuff happens.

Originally posted by fly15:

Originally posted by RamItOn:

Originally posted by lamontb:
another lost season if Smith starts

Bingo.

he wont start

Your sure about that... Remeber the 49ers are the same team that brought in garbage Troy and Carr... For Alex can look good and not have competion... What's to stop them from doing it again?

Quote:
Alex Smith vs. Hyundai Elantra
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/33500/chat-wrap-alex-smith-vs-hyundai-elantra

"Should I ditch my Elantra if I cannot acquire something better? Or would I rather drive that Elantra, or at least keep it around, because it sure beats walking? "

Originally posted by fakers23:

Originally posted by fly15:

Originally posted by RamItOn:

Originally posted by lamontb:
another lost season if Smith starts

Bingo.

he wont start

Your sure about that... Remeber the 49ers are the same team that brought in garbage Troy and Carr... For Alex can look good and not have competion... What's to stop them from doing it again?

No free agency until august?

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by pd24:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.

Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.

Mind = blown

Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.

Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.

Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.

Come on man are you comparing the surrounding cast of Kolb and Alex Smith from their first 20 games? Or even this years cast. Let's be real. Kolb hasn't shown that he is better than Alex Smith. He has had some good games and alot of bad ones. You don't like Alex as much because you see his weaknesses every week whereas Kolb's weaknesses are sitting on the bench. It is the classic backup QB siyndrome.

The reality is that Kolb might be better than Smith, but there is a real possibility that Kolb may be worse. If you can't look fairly at the mitigating factors in Smith's tenure with the 49ers then you aren't being reasonable or fair.

How else am I supposed to compare them? I'm not going to compare a guy with 20 games under his belt with a guy who's played 60. The only fair comparison is where they were their first 20 games. Kolb is far ahead. It doesn't matter how awful Alex's supporting cast was, he was NOT accurate and he still isn't accurate. You really think he'd be connecting on bombs to Deshaun?

Kolb reminds me of Alex if he went to Green Bay. He plays it safe and doesn't take as many chances. However, he's still pretty raw and can be developed. He looked better in College than Alex and I'd much rather give him a shot than Alex. I've seen enough of Alex to know I'm not interested in continuing with him. I've seen enough of Kolb to think he may be a viable option.

I don't believe that you have seen Kolb very much but I do believe that you have seen Alex plenty. Kolb has not shown anything. I watched almost every eagles game this year. It doesn't matter anyway.

And you are wrong about the comparison but I am sick of arguing with people who can't just lay all the chips on the table and call it how it is. I'm not trying to win some argument. All I would like to see is an evaluation that is not coming from an emotional standpoint. Take all the factors in to account fairly, and the only reason you want Kolb is because he is not Alex Smith. that is fine. I totally understand the sentiment, but don't try to prove that Kolb is better by his play. He certainly hasn't shown that at all with a much better situation.

Will you stop crying?

I think Kolb has shown ENOUGH for me to want to take a shot at him. Funny how every analyst is picking the 9ers to go after Kolb...I guess they just dislike Alex too, huh? Ask Philly fans if they'd take Alex over Kolb.

I think Kolb is better....you think Alex is...end of discussion.

I didn't say that I think Alex is better. I wasn't crying. Why bring that up? Does that make you feel better about your piss poor argument?


Will you post links of the analysts that are saying that?

Do you know a ton of philly fans to have the information that you are spewing?


You are just another ignorant fan who likes to rant without facts... sad really.

blah blah blah

It's a fact that Kolb had better numbers in his first 20 games than Alex did in his first 20. You cried and tried to make every excuse in the book as to why Kolb's numbers were better.

Don't talk about facts, then cry when they're presented to you.

Are you a teenager? I am going to try this one more time.

The problem is that you only presented SOME of the facts. That was my whole problem with your post. If you only present the facts or statistics that back up your point of view without honestly investigating all the facts then you aren't reliable. I was simply trying to point that out.

The way to measure statistics with any meaning is to use them when most or all variables are the same so that you can get an accurate reading. The variables between those two were not anywhere near the same. Even if you proved that Kolb really was a better player than Smith back then you would still have to prove that that that fact can be extrapolated to predict future success. I highly doubt it, but hey I would be open to hearing something like that if it was well researched.

A much more important statistic to use would have been their most recent performance. By that measure Alex Smith was slightly better, but neither were anything too special.

I would love it if you could respond with something intelligible, but I'm not holding my breath.

No one can prove what will happen in the future. WTF is wrong with you? I never even said Kolb would be good in the future. What I said was I was willing to give him a shot based on what he's done so far.