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What Veteran QB will Harbaugh get and why?

What Veteran QB will Harbaugh get and why?

Originally posted by excelsior:
Listening to an ESPN program today, I heard them interview a former GB front office executive who left them in 1999 ( I didn't catch his name).

He was asked his opinion about the CBA negotiations. He said he negotiated many contracts over the years for GB and there were standard and predictable negotiating tactics and protocols. It was understood that you never offered your final best compromise until a key deadline was upon you.

Therefore, in the case of the CBA negotiations, he said he was not surprised by the lack of progress at this point. As we approach the few weeks before the scedualed start of the regualr season, he thinks the two sides will suddenly come together and get the deal done.

What this means is that there will be no OTAs, and a very truncated training camp and preseason. It also means mo trades or signing of FAs until just before the season is about to begin.

Hence, stable teams with the same coaching staff and solid rosters will get out of the gate the fastest. The teams in transition, such as us, with new coaching staffs and unfilled roster spots, will be severely handicapped.

This is another reason why I think the team is looking seriously at trying to sign Alex to at least a one year extension before his contract ends on March 4th. If they do this, it will allow Alex to spend the season absorbing the new playbook. In contrast, we would have to wait until shortly before the beginning of the new season to trade for or sign a vet QB, and he would only have weeks to get ready with the new system.

WHy would there be no OTAs/mini camps if the deal does get done?
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by excelsior:
Listening to an ESPN program today, I heard them interview a former GB front office executive who left them in 1999 ( I didn't catch his name).

He was asked his opinion about the CBA negotiations. He said he negotiated many contracts over the years for GB and there were standard and predictable negotiating tactics and protocols. It was understood that you never offered your final best compromise until a key deadline was upon you.

Therefore, in the case of the CBA negotiations, he said he was not surprised by the lack of progress at this point. As we approach the few weeks before the scedualed start of the regualr season, he thinks the two sides will suddenly come together and get the deal done.

What this means is that there will be no OTAs, and a very truncated training camp and preseason. It also means mo trades or signing of FAs until just before the season is about to begin.

Hence, stable teams with the same coaching staff and solid rosters will get out of the gate the fastest. The teams in transition, such as us, with new coaching staffs and unfilled roster spots, will be severely handicapped.

This is another reason why I think the team is looking seriously at trying to sign Alex to at least a one year extension before his contract ends on March 4th. If they do this, it will allow Alex to spend the season absorbing the new playbook. In contrast, we would have to wait until shortly before the beginning of the new season to trade for or sign a vet QB, and he would only have weeks to get ready with the new system.

WHy would there be no OTAs/mini camps if the deal does get done?

Because the deal won't get done until mid August or so and then for the season to start on time you would only have like a few weeks to practice. There would be no time for OTAs or mini camps dude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGyEqKOwtKs
  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Interesting.......a new strategy conjured by the Alex apologists. Attacking the game of probowl players on the roster.

All of a sudden, VD and Frank Gore's games are costing Alex Smith the opportunity to become great, although the fanboys wont say this directly.

Pathetic.............
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Apparently, it's perfectly OK to point out stupid flaws in our superstar Pro Bowl TE. But it's not OK to point out any flaws in Alex Smith b/c everyone else on the team sucks and is the reason he hasn't produced.

What might be objectionable is not criticism, but blanket condemnation and ridicule. If posters do not like VD or Staley or (fill in the blank) so what? On the other hand, if people just want to slam a player over and over, stating that he has no talent the disussions tend to decline into a back and forth one-ups-manship. This doesn't tend to further either sides cause and turns many off. I have fallen into this trap and usually kick myself for responding.

There has been some very good discussion about how talent is evaluated and how you can tell when a player is done on a team. Most of we Alex supporters have admitted he has flaws, but differ with detractors as to whether he has had sufficient coaching to overcome those flaws. I believe he might do well under a guy like Harbaugh and would like to see this attempted. That does not mean the 9ers should stand pat! They should bring in any QB Harbaugh wants and that is true with every position, not just QB.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,436
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

. The guy has nearly 2000 yards and over 20 TDs in two years. His receiving is not the problem. But go on, believe what you want. I don't post in these threads often anymore b/c geniuses like you are crawling in them...I can never win an argument vs such intelligence.
See, that is the problem when ALL one does is look at the stats.

I have watched the guy since he came out. I have heard multiple announcers, including Gary Plummer, point out the flaws in Davis' game as they pertain to the nuts-and-bolts routes and reads that I have mentioned. If you want to win the argument, go have it with Gary Plummer. He was a LB that had to deal with TEs and the short zones. He should know what he is talking about when he points out some of the things he has...and that I have passed on here.

Nice chat, y'all. It's been a very long day. 'nite.

Are you serious? Vernon Davis is the most complete TE in the NFL. I can only imagine how much better his stats would be if he had someone like Rodgers as his qb and a creative offense like Harbaugh's. Gary Plummer could never in his wildest dreams cover a TE like Vernon. Easy to pick out flaws in a guy you never played against. Vernon's hands have improved ten fold since he was drafted. His route running is excellent. The way he shed's blocks and can run any pattern in the route tree is unheard of for a man his size. The td catch called back against the rams this season showed me everything i need to know about how far Vernon has come. We are truly lucky as fans to have such an athlete. Not to mention a great guy. Great with the community, great with the media, and a great clubhouse leader.



BTW how many TE's in this league CAN run a seam route and Fly the way Vernon Davis can.
You guys continue to miss the main point of my comments: As good as Davis is in some things, he still has substantial flaws in his overall game. Yes, he has speed and strength but as a pass receiver, he isn't even the best TE on the 49ers - that distinction goes to Delanie Walker. Even Vernon conceded at the beginning of last year that Walker ran better routes and caught the ball better than he did.

I'll finish with this; I look forward to seeing what Harbaugh can do with BOTH of those guys in his offense. I firmly believe that they will BOTH make great gains in their game and become the center piece of the offense.

Your main point was this:

Quote:
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

And for my reasons I have been mentioning Vernon Davis. Davis IS the best receiver on our offense, he sure didn't go to the Pro Bowl just simply by being a pass-protector/run blocker. Besides, Delanie Walker isn't even a true TE, remember hes a converted WR who can't really block for crap.

And I'll end it with this, once Harbaugh finds us a REAL QB, we'll finally get to see what this offense can really do.
As I said, it will be interesting to see what Harbaugh will do with the offense.

I don't have time right now to detail the primary responsibilities of a TE in the WCO, or just about any offense, but suffice it to say that it is more than just blocking and running seam routes.

Have a good day...

Well then how can you judge VD when he hasn't even been in a WCO?? Sure the TE in a WCO doesn't have to be the most athletic nor does he have to have light speed, but with Vernon Davis its a plus. From what I've seen of a TE in a WCO is hardly different than what Vernon has been doing, he'll run a drag route across the middle, a short out route to be that safety valve to bail out the QB, I've seen TE's line up outside, hitches, quick passes, fades....again, hardly different than what VD has been doing.
I think Harbaugh may want to keep Alex as his franchise guy. From reading articles it seems he likes Alex and could maybe turn his career around. Another plus if we keep him is that in harbaugh's system they use the te position alot and Alex has good chemistry with Vernon Davis
  • Wodwo
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This is getting silly, folks.

Every player on this team has flaws. Think about it for a second....

Alex Smith: Does not play with instinct.

Frank Gore: Fumbles too often.

Anthony Dixon: Dances too much.

Vernon Davis: Lacks agility and does not make sharp cuts on routes.

Delanie Walker: Does not block well for a tight end.

Michael Crabtree: Has shown lapses in concentration.

Josh Morgan: Does not lay out for the football.

Ted Ginn: Can't catch a cold.

Joe Staley: Is not good enough in pass protection.

Mike Iupati: Rookie. Has a tendency to trip over himself at times.

David Baas: Lacks power for his size.

Chilo Rachal: Can't pass block.

Anthony Davis: Rookie. Poor pass protection.

Justin Smith: Lacks burst to finish.

Aubrayo Franklin: Not versatile NT, can only one gap.

Isaac Sopoaga: Not dominant for his size/athleticism.

Parys Haralson: Can't work in space, lack of speed and agility.

Takeo Spikes: Only has ability to cover in a small zone.

Patrick Willis: Is not a great pass defender.

Manny Lawson: Poor pass rush.

Nate Clements: Is not a zone corner, should play press coverage.

Shawntae Spencer: Lack of ball skills and awareness.

Dashon Goldson: Does not make plays.

Reggie Smith: Poor zone coverage skills.

Obviously I could list more flaws for each, but I could also list positives for each.

The main positive I would list for each is that they have the potential to be better than they are.

Should we scrap the entire roster because they have flaws?

Maybe... now, I'm going out on a limb here... maybe our coaching staff had been the problem the whole time.

Were they not teaching? Was it poor scheme? Did they just flat out suck big fat donkey dick?

I don't know for sure. I do think that it's tough to judge the full potential of any player on this team, though. How do I know for sure what flaws are the fault of the player and what flaws are due to poor teaching or scheme?

So, why don't we just give the new coaching staff a chance to show what it can do with our roster before we decide?

Give the new coaches a chance to evaluate, teach, and scheme... then see what happens.

Anyway, it's not like we have a choice.

You would think that Jim Harbaugh is going to make decisions that he thinks will help the team, right? He's the guy that everyone wanted... now we're going to see what he thinks of the players on our roster.

Wasn't he supposed to be a quarterback expert?

I don't know about any of you, but I'm going to let the Head Coach that I wanted the team to hire make the decisions and wait to judge them until after I see the results.

I'm sick of talking... f**king show me.
Alex Smith will be back in 2011
1) I don't think harbaugh is going to draft a "seasoned" but back up Qb.

2).I never have been an alex fan nor an alex detractor, but after 6 yrs, i think it is better to throw in the towel and say either alex had lousy coaching and a lousy team, or alex was lousy, or BOTH. Whatever, i wrote recently that we should split the sheets with alex, because we had gotten nowhere. Now with the CBA mess looming, and the argument put forward that no OTAs, no TC, no nada, it would seem like the smartest thing to do FOR THIS YR is to keep alex, and let him run team.

Outside shot harbaugh is the coach he has needed, but i really think alex was just a bad pick. NOnetheless, i can now say i favor keeping alex this yr, because of extenuating circumstances re: CBA stalemate. I agree it is likely to cut TC, OTAs short and may end up with just a season and no time to get ready for it. Sorry guys, alex has to stay this yr and let's hope harbaugh brings out the best in him. Bringing in a new guy or a rook qB to start are both NON starters. I don't like it but alex is the answer for 2011. Tough tiddy.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
1) I don't think harbaugh is going to draft a "seasoned" but back up Qb.

2).I never have been an alex fan nor an alex detractor, but after 6 yrs, i think it is better to throw in the towel and say either alex had lousy coaching and a lousy team, or alex was lousy, or BOTH. Whatever, i wrote recently that we should split the sheets with alex, because we had gotten nowhere. Now with the CBA mess looming, and the argument put forward that no OTAs, no TC, no nada, it would seem like the smartest thing to do FOR THIS YR is to keep alex, and let him run team.

Outside shot harbaugh is the coach he has needed, but i really think alex was just a bad pick. NOnetheless, i can now say i favor keeping alex this yr, because of extenuating circumstances re: CBA stalemate. I agree it is likely to cut TC, OTAs short and may end up with just a season and no time to get ready for it. Sorry guys, alex has to stay this yr and let's hope harbaugh brings out the best in him. Bringing in a new guy or a rook qB to start are both NON starters. I don't like it but alex is the answer for 2011. Tough tiddy.
well what i see wit alex is an athlete at qb wit an 82 passer rating which is mediocre by most standards that can b turnover prone and tentative but i also believe he has been coached by regimes that were among the league's worst at bringing along a qb. now wit harbaugh as the head coach for the next 5 yrs, at least we have some offensive constancy and stability. this is not to say that this will turn alex into the franchise, but at least we should b able to properly develop young talent from here on out. I agree that if alex wants back in, we should take him in for the lack of better options so late in the game assuming this cba mess doesn't clear up til late august. I would however consider dumping carr and drafting a couple of rookies because let us face it, we ain't winning the chip this yr but we may as well start getting as much young talent in here and start bringing them along
Pasodoc--I was a Rogers fan and was disappointed when Smith was drafted, but then read his college stats and decided he was not so bad. Since then we all learned how bad coaching can ruin a team and players...not that we needed the lesson! Since Smith has been a stand up guy I support him. If he can turn things around I will be really happy--for Smith and the 9ers. But, it would not surprise me if he continued to flounder and his career goes nowhere.

Now that the CBA has thrown everything into a mess, Smith may decide to stay and I agree that it would be best for the 9ers. Can't see trading a high pick for someone who may be as good as Smith.
pillbusta, i already posted in another thread, that the qb or qbs that harbaugh picks will be in rds 3-5 or 5-7, and i wouldn't be terribly shocked if nobody knows much about either, (or just one), but i will predict he will be a guy who is smart, immensely coachable, probably won't be able to throw a ball thru a brick wall (but so what), and will be somewhat agile on his feet, tho not a Vick type runner. He will be accurate, and will be a good athlete. I couldn't guess which of the some 300 qbs out there he might take, but i am expecting someone i haven't heard of or if so, someone we know little about. Harbaugh will not be taking a qb in first 3 rds. He is going for a coachable unknown, and will draft high picks for other team needs, ie CB, passrushing OLB, maybe a DL guy. And that's it.

We can all hope he does something good with alex this yr, but i really only would like to see alex get us thru the CBA yr, nothing more. It seems a shame to burn a franchisee tag on him,but with the CBA fiasco, strange things happen.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
He might be able to do something none of the last couple of coaches could do...coach up Alex Smith.


agree if anyone over the last 6 yrs is going to turn smith into winning QB it's harbaugh.
The Alex momentum has swung. Over the last few weeks, the possibility of Alex being resigned to be the 49er vet for 2011 has increased from 1% to about 70%. And smart, knowledgeable guys like dj43, MadDog, Backontop, Swagger, and others have been making very good cases for not only why it is likely, but why it is the smartest thing for H. to do.

Unless the Alex critics are prepared to lose the argument through their passive silence, they better rally and try to make a come-back. Right now they are clearly losing, and there is nothing worse than being a "loser."