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What Veteran QB will Harbaugh get and why?

What Veteran QB will Harbaugh get and why?

  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,116
Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

. The guy has nearly 2000 yards and over 20 TDs in two years. His receiving is not the problem. But go on, believe what you want. I don't post in these threads often anymore b/c geniuses like you are crawling in them...I can never win an argument vs such intelligence.
See, that is the problem when ALL one does is look at the stats.

I have watched the guy since he came out. I have heard multiple announcers, including Gary Plummer, point out the flaws in Davis' game as they pertain to the nuts-and-bolts routes and reads that I have mentioned. If you want to win the argument, go have it with Gary Plummer. He was a LB that had to deal with TEs and the short zones. He should know what he is talking about when he points out some of the things he has...and that I have passed on here.

Nice chat, y'all. It's been a very long day. 'nite.

Are you serious? Vernon Davis is the most complete TE in the NFL. I can only imagine how much better his stats would be if he had someone like Rodgers as his qb and a creative offense like Harbaugh's. Gary Plummer could never in his wildest dreams cover a TE like Vernon. Easy to pick out flaws in a guy you never played against. Vernon's hands have improved ten fold since he was drafted. His route running is excellent. The way he shed's blocks and can run any pattern in the route tree is unheard of for a man his size. The td catch called back against the rams this season showed me everything i need to know about how far Vernon has come. We are truly lucky as fans to have such an athlete. Not to mention a great guy. Great with the community, great with the media, and a great clubhouse leader.



BTW how many TE's in this league CAN run a seam route and Fly the way Vernon Davis can.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

. The guy has nearly 2000 yards and over 20 TDs in two years. His receiving is not the problem. But go on, believe what you want. I don't post in these threads often anymore b/c geniuses like you are crawling in them...I can never win an argument vs such intelligence.
See, that is the problem when ALL one does is look at the stats.

I have watched the guy since he came out. I have heard multiple announcers, including Gary Plummer, point out the flaws in Davis' game as they pertain to the nuts-and-bolts routes and reads that I have mentioned. If you want to win the argument, go have it with Gary Plummer. He was a LB that had to deal with TEs and the short zones. He should know what he is talking about when he points out some of the things he has...and that I have passed on here.

Nice chat, y'all. It's been a very long day. 'nite.

Are you serious? Vernon Davis is the most complete TE in the NFL. I can only imagine how much better his stats would be if he had someone like Rodgers as his qb and a creative offense like Harbaugh's. Gary Plummer could never in his wildest dreams cover a TE like Vernon. Easy to pick out flaws in a guy you never played against. Vernon's hands have improved ten fold since he was drafted. His route running is excellent. The way he shed's blocks and can run any pattern in the route tree is unheard of for a man his size. The td catch called back against the rams this season showed me everything i need to know about how far Vernon has come. We are truly lucky as fans to have such an athlete. Not to mention a great guy. Great with the community, great with the media, and a great clubhouse leader.



BTW how many TE's in this league CAN run a seam route and Fly the way Vernon Davis can.

While VD is quite a good TE now, he still has shortcomings (as all players do). I would not compare him favorably to Brent Jones as a receiver and there are many TEs in the NFL who run better routes. VDs strength has been his blocking and speed. Speed and his work ethic have improved his receiving, so he may become one of the best TEs of all time.

As far as being the most complete TE in the NFL I question that until he becomes that safety valve for the QB, which will be when he can read defenses. There has been improvement there and hope Harbaugh and company will be able to teach that to him, but Sullivan wasn't a rookie coach and no doubt tried.

One important fact to consider is that VDs stats may go down as soon as more tools are used properly. This may hurt his rep with those who depend on stats for their evaluation of a player, but those who understand the little things players can do to help a team will appreciate his growth under the new regime.

VD is the one major Singletary success story. He turned his career around and I won't forget that just because I have/had little use for him as a HC.

Edit: Over the past six years the coaching staff seems to have been teaching within their area rather than as a united appoach. Perhaps that is why so many position coaches looked so bad in SF while they were successful elsewhere.

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Feb 12, 2011 at 09:35:09 ]
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

. The guy has nearly 2000 yards and over 20 TDs in two years. His receiving is not the problem. But go on, believe what you want. I don't post in these threads often anymore b/c geniuses like you are crawling in them...I can never win an argument vs such intelligence.
See, that is the problem when ALL one does is look at the stats.

I have watched the guy since he came out. I have heard multiple announcers, including Gary Plummer, point out the flaws in Davis' game as they pertain to the nuts-and-bolts routes and reads that I have mentioned. If you want to win the argument, go have it with Gary Plummer. He was a LB that had to deal with TEs and the short zones. He should know what he is talking about when he points out some of the things he has...and that I have passed on here.

Nice chat, y'all. It's been a very long day. 'nite.

Are you serious? Vernon Davis is the most complete TE in the NFL. I can only imagine how much better his stats would be if he had someone like Rodgers as his qb and a creative offense like Harbaugh's. Gary Plummer could never in his wildest dreams cover a TE like Vernon. Easy to pick out flaws in a guy you never played against. Vernon's hands have improved ten fold since he was drafted. His route running is excellent. The way he shed's blocks and can run any pattern in the route tree is unheard of for a man his size. The td catch called back against the rams this season showed me everything i need to know about how far Vernon has come. We are truly lucky as fans to have such an athlete. Not to mention a great guy. Great with the community, great with the media, and a great clubhouse leader.



BTW how many TE's in this league CAN run a seam route and Fly the way Vernon Davis can.
You guys continue to miss the main point of my comments: As good as Davis is in some things, he still has substantial flaws in his overall game. Yes, he has speed and strength but as a pass receiver, he isn't even the best TE on the 49ers - that distinction goes to Delanie Walker. Even Vernon conceded at the beginning of last year that Walker ran better routes and caught the ball better than he did.

I'll finish with this; I look forward to seeing what Harbaugh can do with BOTH of those guys in his offense. I firmly believe that they will BOTH make great gains in their game and become the center piece of the offense.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,116
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

. The guy has nearly 2000 yards and over 20 TDs in two years. His receiving is not the problem. But go on, believe what you want. I don't post in these threads often anymore b/c geniuses like you are crawling in them...I can never win an argument vs such intelligence.
See, that is the problem when ALL one does is look at the stats.

I have watched the guy since he came out. I have heard multiple announcers, including Gary Plummer, point out the flaws in Davis' game as they pertain to the nuts-and-bolts routes and reads that I have mentioned. If you want to win the argument, go have it with Gary Plummer. He was a LB that had to deal with TEs and the short zones. He should know what he is talking about when he points out some of the things he has...and that I have passed on here.

Nice chat, y'all. It's been a very long day. 'nite.

Are you serious? Vernon Davis is the most complete TE in the NFL. I can only imagine how much better his stats would be if he had someone like Rodgers as his qb and a creative offense like Harbaugh's. Gary Plummer could never in his wildest dreams cover a TE like Vernon. Easy to pick out flaws in a guy you never played against. Vernon's hands have improved ten fold since he was drafted. His route running is excellent. The way he shed's blocks and can run any pattern in the route tree is unheard of for a man his size. The td catch called back against the rams this season showed me everything i need to know about how far Vernon has come. We are truly lucky as fans to have such an athlete. Not to mention a great guy. Great with the community, great with the media, and a great clubhouse leader.



BTW how many TE's in this league CAN run a seam route and Fly the way Vernon Davis can.
You guys continue to miss the main point of my comments: As good as Davis is in some things, he still has substantial flaws in his overall game. Yes, he has speed and strength but as a pass receiver, he isn't even the best TE on the 49ers - that distinction goes to Delanie Walker. Even Vernon conceded at the beginning of last year that Walker ran better routes and caught the ball better than he did.

I'll finish with this; I look forward to seeing what Harbaugh can do with BOTH of those guys in his offense. I firmly believe that they will BOTH make great gains in their game and become the center piece of the offense.

Your main point was this:

Quote:
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

And for my reasons I have been mentioning Vernon Davis. Davis IS the best receiver on our offense, he sure didn't go to the Pro Bowl just simply by being a pass-protector/run blocker. Besides, Delanie Walker isn't even a true TE, remember hes a converted WR who can't really block for crap.

And I'll end it with this, once Harbaugh finds us a REAL QB, we'll finally get to see what this offense can really do.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

. The guy has nearly 2000 yards and over 20 TDs in two years. His receiving is not the problem. But go on, believe what you want. I don't post in these threads often anymore b/c geniuses like you are crawling in them...I can never win an argument vs such intelligence.
See, that is the problem when ALL one does is look at the stats.

I have watched the guy since he came out. I have heard multiple announcers, including Gary Plummer, point out the flaws in Davis' game as they pertain to the nuts-and-bolts routes and reads that I have mentioned. If you want to win the argument, go have it with Gary Plummer. He was a LB that had to deal with TEs and the short zones. He should know what he is talking about when he points out some of the things he has...and that I have passed on here.

Nice chat, y'all. It's been a very long day. 'nite.

Are you serious? Vernon Davis is the most complete TE in the NFL. I can only imagine how much better his stats would be if he had someone like Rodgers as his qb and a creative offense like Harbaugh's. Gary Plummer could never in his wildest dreams cover a TE like Vernon. Easy to pick out flaws in a guy you never played against. Vernon's hands have improved ten fold since he was drafted. His route running is excellent. The way he shed's blocks and can run any pattern in the route tree is unheard of for a man his size. The td catch called back against the rams this season showed me everything i need to know about how far Vernon has come. We are truly lucky as fans to have such an athlete. Not to mention a great guy. Great with the community, great with the media, and a great clubhouse leader.



BTW how many TE's in this league CAN run a seam route and Fly the way Vernon Davis can.
You guys continue to miss the main point of my comments: As good as Davis is in some things, he still has substantial flaws in his overall game. Yes, he has speed and strength but as a pass receiver, he isn't even the best TE on the 49ers - that distinction goes to Delanie Walker. Even Vernon conceded at the beginning of last year that Walker ran better routes and caught the ball better than he did.

I'll finish with this; I look forward to seeing what Harbaugh can do with BOTH of those guys in his offense. I firmly believe that they will BOTH make great gains in their game and become the center piece of the offense.

Your main point was this:

Quote:
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

And for my reasons I have been mentioning Vernon Davis. Davis IS the best receiver on our offense, he sure didn't go to the Pro Bowl just simply by being a pass-protector/run blocker. Besides, Delanie Walker isn't even a true TE, remember hes a converted WR who can't really block for crap.

And I'll end it with this, once Harbaugh finds us a REAL QB, we'll finally get to see what this offense can really do.
As I said, it will be interesting to see what Harbaugh will do with the offense.

I don't have time right now to detail the primary responsibilities of a TE in the WCO, or just about any offense, but suffice it to say that it is more than just blocking and running seam routes.

Have a good day...
Apparently, it's perfectly OK to point out stupid flaws in our superstar Pro Bowl TE. But it's not OK to point out any flaws in Alex Smith b/c everyone else on the team sucks and is the reason he hasn't produced.
Matt Flynn
These Qbs are fine selections but I'd have to say two things!
1) By going with a veteran QB can help juice up the team. Build confidence, stability and give back to the fans of a good football team.

OR

2) Fine a young New QB who will have the GUTS!! CONFIDENCE!! PATIENCES!! and can handle the critics and just keep a cool head. If we can get a Young QB who can do that even if during that year we dont do well but better than the following years...we may be looking at a Franchise QB. WE NEED A LEADER!!!
For all what V.Davis had accomplished, I don't think for a minute that he's a consistent, dependable receiving TE. He has room to improve.
I bet we get McNabb, im not saying we WILL but my mind tells me we'll sign mcnabb then draft a qb in the 2nd round. I just have a feeling McNabb would dominate with out offensr
I wouldn't mind giving tavaris jackson a chance, I mean right when Favre went to Minnesota is when he began to get hot, and he knows the WCO system as well and he was able to watch it implemented and learn from a HOF qb as well. I think Jackson would be an awsome qb and he took them to the playoffs with less than what Favre had.
Tavaris is just as inconsistent as Alex only more athletic. No thanks.
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Tavaris is just as inconsistent as Alex only more athletic. No thanks.

i agree id rather have alex over a lot of those qb except maybe orton but his numbers may be inflated because of the system so i dunno
Listening to an ESPN program today, I heard them interview a former GB front office executive who left them in 1999 ( I didn't catch his name).

He was asked his opinion about the CBA negotiations. He said he negotiated many contracts over the years for GB and there were standard and predictable negotiating tactics and protocols. It was understood that you never offered your final best compromise until a key deadline was upon you.

Therefore, in the case of the CBA negotiations, he said he was not surprised by the lack of progress at this point. As we approach the few weeks before the scedualed start of the regualr season, he thinks the two sides will suddenly come together and get the deal done.

What this means is that there will be no OTAs, and a very truncated training camp and preseason. It also means mo trades or signing of FAs until just before the season is about to begin.

Hence, stable teams with the same coaching staff and solid rosters will get out of the gate the fastest. The teams in transition, such as us, with new coaching staffs and unfilled roster spots, will be severely handicapped.

This is another reason why I think the team is looking seriously at trying to sign Alex to at least a one year extension before his contract ends on March 4th. If they do this, it will allow Alex to spend the season absorbing the new playbook. In contrast, we would have to wait until shortly before the beginning of the new season to trade for or sign a vet QB, and he would only have weeks to get ready with the new system.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by excelsior:
Listening to an ESPN program today, I heard them interview a former GB front office executive who left them in 1999 ( I didn't catch his name).

He was asked his opinion about the CBA negotiations. He said he negotiated many contracts over the years for GB and there were standard and predictable negotiating tactics and protocols. It was understood that you never offered your final best compromise until a key deadline was upon you.

Therefore, in the case of the CBA negotiations, he said he was not surprised by the lack of progress at this point. As we approach the few weeks before the scedualed start of the regualr season, he thinks the two sides will suddenly come together and get the deal done.

What this means is that there will be no OTAs, and a very truncated training camp and preseason. It also means mo trades or signing of FAs until just before the season is about to begin.

Hence, stable teams with the same coaching staff and solid rosters will get out of the gate the fastest. The teams in transition, such as us, with new coaching staffs and unfilled roster spots, will be severely handicapped.

This is another reason why I think the team is looking seriously at trying to sign Alex to at least a one year extension before his contract ends on March 4th. If they do this, it will allow Alex to spend the season absorbing the new playbook. In contrast, we would have to wait until shortly before the beginning of the new season to trade for or sign a vet QB, and he would only have weeks to get ready with the new system.
It seems very obvious Harbaugh/Baalke have considered that possibility.