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Can we bench Anthony Davis now?

What I don't understand is why doesn't Singletary pull this kid to the side and use his "motivational powers" (from his DVD!) to whip this kid's psyche and get him focused during the game....I mean he did that to Alex Smith for bad play right?! Why can't he do it to AD for playing horribly!?


Hypocrisy!?
No.

We knew this going in that this kid most likely will go through a rough first season. More so than Iupati.

Keep him in there.

Maybe the difference is we know have a QB who can bail the rest of his teammates out by making big plays when it matters the most.

The previous QB (whom I will no longer speak of by name...) could not.
So with Staley down are we thinking (left to right) Sims, Iupati, Bass, Wragge, and Boone? with Davis and Rachil as our back ups? or do we keep Chilo in at right guard?
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,051
Davis is the best we got right now. We're going to have to live or die with him.
They have to do something. They either have to give him more help or sit him down. I really thought that guy would be better than this but the things that happen aren't just b/c he's a rookie it's just bad technique and fundamentals.
Originally posted by strickac:
Wow! I can't believe that made sense in your head.

Look, you said it yourself. It may take 2-3 years before Davis is the guy we drafted him to be. Plus, benching a 20 year old, who's very raw, does not mean he'll never start again. That's nonsense.

Davis is killing us on the right side. Physically, he has the tools. Mentally though, he's not up to par (yet). Wragge played well at LT yesterday when Staley briefly went out. Sims played great when Staley was injured last season. Since Staley has experience on both sides of the line, it makes sense (to me) to start exploring different options to protect Smith. Boone? Who knows what he can do? I know he can't be worse than Davis is now.

We're in a close race to win the division and we finally have some excitement at the QB position. It's vital that the Oline protect Troy. Davis is fine when we play our rush-oriented attack, but as Johnson and Singletary move forward with Troy, he's going to see more and more pass attempts. That's what scares me about leaving Davis in there.

We had 3 TDs called back yesterday. Stupid penalties are killing our momentum. Davis' stupid holding penalty in the 4th almost lost the game for us. It negated Vernon's spectacular catch.

IMO, that's unacceptable. Just because someone is a 1st round pick doesn't mean they should be excused for poor play. If he was a mid-round pick, he wouldn't be starting. You know that. It's just like the whole Alex Smith fiasco. The team had so much money invested in him that they felt they had to start him, no matter what. That's a recipe for disaster. It ruins teams.

If you bench your #1 pick and play an UFA who was on the PS last year who has never started a game ahead of him, you're saying you have no confidence that Anthony Davis can succeed in the NFL. If you undermine the perception for your #1 pick and his confidence, and tell him to sit on the sidelines, you're cutting bait. End of story, which is why it'll never happen unless the people making decisions are as dumb as the people pushing for Davis to be benched.

Boone could absolutely be worse than Davis right now, which is why Boone has never seen action in a game. I'm not saying that Boone couldn't play better, but to say that Davis's performance is the floor for a starting RT in the NFL is completely ludicrous.

Davis, and the line as a whole, have had good games in pass protection. They've had bad games, too. That's what happens when you have three players on the line playing a position for the first time in the NFL. Lines get better when they have the chance to play with each other for a long period of time. Introducing more instability with players who are even more untested isn't the right call; it's not even in the proximity of the right call.

Saying that he wouldn't be starting if he were a 4th round pick is obvious, because if he was a 4th round talent then he wouldn't project as a first-year starter anyways. It's not simply "he was picked in the first, and therefore will always play". It's "he was picked in the first because he has the raw talent to succeed, and therefore he will play as his adjustment to the NFL continues". Smith, if you'll remember, was benched, and won the job back in 2009.

And for the record, Davis's penalty didn't negate VD's go-ahead TD; it negated Crabtree's TD earlier in the 4th quarter when we settled for a FG to put us within 4 points. It was Joe Staley's holding call that negated the game-winning TD pass to Davis. I don't see any calls for Staley to be benched (though that's moot now).
Originally posted by mayo49:
Davis is the best we got right now. We're going to have to live or die with him.

Thats what we/they/a lot of people said about A.Smith...and we all know how that story goes.
Originally posted by CrankDatCrabtree:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Davis is the best we got right now. We're going to have to live or die with him.

Thats what we/they/a lot of people said about A.Smith...and we all know how that story goes.

Troy Smith has started games before and won the Heisman. His talent was obviously already there, just questions about his ability to manage an NFL game. Alex Boone is an undrafted free agent who was on the practice squad last year. 32 teams had a chance to draft him and passed on him for 7 rounds; they had a chance to sign him off our PS and passed on him for a whole season (unlike Matt Kopa). I like Boone as much as the next Webzoner because of his offseason turnout and commitment, but to just assume that every third-stringer will play better than the starter is foolish.
  • NickV
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,561
He needs help!

Keep Byham in there with him!



Originally posted by strickac:
Originally posted by sspiker:
Originally posted by strickac:
Originally posted by boriken_9er:
This is a stupid post, the guy is a rookie that is out there on his own. Like any other job in the world at the beginning you need some sort of guidance to get afloat.

...and you need time to sit and learn your job. He's not ready to start. Plain and simple. Wragge or even Boone would be a better option. Davis is playing worse than Kwame or Snyder ever did. Didn't we resign Barry Sims? Sims played great at LT last season. Sim at LT and Staley at RT... something.

Davis needs to be benched. Maybe he can start next season. Singletary was quick to bench Rachal (who got smoked by Michael Lewis yesterday) last season. Why such loyalty to Davis?

You'd start someone who has never started at tackle or someone who was on the PS last year over the player we drafted at #11? AND you want to try to start him again next year?

That doesn't simply make no sense. That makes less than no sense. If Anthony Davis is benched halfway through his rookie campaign, then he's never going to be a starter for this team, and we wasted a #1 draft pick without giving the guy a fair shot. That's why its never going to happen, and why this thread is one of the dumbest I've seen on the Webzone.

It's not a matter of loyalty, its a matter of common sense. He's 20 years old, he's a rookie, and the only O-lineman that he gets to line up next to seems to change on each play. He's a raw talent who will have some great performances (like he already has this year) and will have some bad performances. And by playing through them, he'll get better, the line will gel, and in 2-3 years will have one of the best, and one of the youngest, lines in the league.

Wow! I can't believe that made sense in your head.

Look, you said it yourself. It may take 2-3 years before Davis is the guy we drafted him to be. Plus, benching a 20 year old, who's very raw, does not mean he'll never start again. That's nonsense.

Davis is killing us on the right side. Physically, he has the tools. Mentally though, he's not up to par (yet). Wragge played well at LT yesterday when Staley briefly went out. Sims played great when Staley was injured last season. Since Staley has experience on both sides of the line, it makes sense (to me) to start exploring different options to protect Smith. Boone? Who knows what he can do? I know he can't be worse than Davis is now.

We're in a close race to win the division and we finally have some excitement at the QB position. It's vital that the Oline protect Troy. Davis is fine when we play our rush-oriented attack, but as Johnson and Singletary move forward with Troy, he's going to see more and more pass attempts. That's what scares me about leaving Davis in there.

We had 3 TDs called back yesterday. Stupid penalties are killing our momentum. Davis' stupid holding penalty in the 4th almost lost the game for us. It negated Vernon's spectacular catch.

IMO, that's unacceptable. Just because someone is a 1st round pick doesn't mean they should be excused for poor play. If he was a mid-round pick, he wouldn't be starting. You know that. It's just like the whole Alex Smith fiasco. The team had so much money invested in him that they felt they had to start him, no matter what. That's a recipe for disaster. It ruins teams.

No one is excusing them for poor play....

What people are forgetting is that even when vets on other teams (when evaluated outside the 49ers dysfunctional coaching/personnel make-up) have bad games or struggling against a pass-rush, they give them help. There's nothing wrong with giving a struggling player help. Davis was left on an island even when it was clear he was struggling with Long. Sometimes you're just going to get your butt kicked in this league. It happens - especially if you're a rookie. That's not an excuse it's the truth.

It's amazing the amount of venom being spewed at Davis when Rachal who consistently gets chance after chance after chance and the only reason why he doesn't draw more attention is because he's a OG.

He was drafted as a raw, project player. That's what he is. Nowhere does that say "immediate starter". If you put a raw, project player out there by definition he's going have moments when he doesn't play like a starter.
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Davis is 20 years old, a rookie and went against a very talented vet in Long. Why did people assume he would just come in and dominate as a rookie on this level?

PLEASE STOP BASHING DAVIS!!!

You ought to bashing Singletary or even Solari. Ask yourself WHY is Rachal still starting? He can't even block a safety (Lewis) and can't provide a rookie with any slack because he's a major suck. Yet the scheme CONTINUED to keep Davis out there on an island.

Ask yourself WHY was Alex Boone AND Barry Sims inactive??? Your back-up tackles are Snyder and Wragge??? Seriously? Wragge hasn't taken a snap at OT in 2 years. And don't talk to me about 45 active because the 49ers took Matt Kopa to London... that's right Kopa. (Who??)

PERSONNEL DECISIONS are the problem with this OL, not the talent. No, Davis IS NOT KWAME. Stop the ridiculous hyperbole. Even Orlando Pace had problems against the 49ers when he was a rookie and then went on to anchor a SB line.

As PatrickJira says, don't destroy the kid's confidence by letting him feel like he (almost) lost the game on his own. That's not his fault his coach is so stupid to KEEP him in a situations where he's struggling without help.

When he has a bad game, SIMS should be at least available - you remember the guy we signed to a multi-million contract as a back-up??

Yeah, let's not put ANY of it on the player.

Let's treat him like Alex Smith and bring up every excuse in the book for him playing so atrociously.

I think we all know the reasons he sucks. Do those reasons matter? Nope. He's still hurting this team, no matter WHY he's f*cking up. His poor play is hurting our chances of winning football games and every excuse in the world is not going to change that.

I don't care WHY he sucks, the fact is, he sucks. That's all that matters.

So then it's a question of how you fix it.

Here's something novel.... give him some help... You know like other teams do with their schemes instead of leaving him out there on an island, or worse, playing next to Chilo Rachal with no help.

He wouldn't be in a position to f**k up at all if we had smarter coaches who understood what the term "personnel decisions" mean.
Joe staley wasn't this bad as a rookie. Davis is on a kwame path! Until he is ready, bring in simms to play left, move joe to RT. Bench chilo, bring in wragge
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by strickac:
Originally posted by sspiker:
Originally posted by strickac:
Originally posted by boriken_9er:
This is a stupid post, the guy is a rookie that is out there on his own. Like any other job in the world at the beginning you need some sort of guidance to get afloat.

...and you need time to sit and learn your job. He's not ready to start. Plain and simple. Wragge or even Boone would be a better option. Davis is playing worse than Kwame or Snyder ever did. Didn't we resign Barry Sims? Sims played great at LT last season. Sim at LT and Staley at RT... something.

Davis needs to be benched. Maybe he can start next season. Singletary was quick to bench Rachal (who got smoked by Michael Lewis yesterday) last season. Why such loyalty to Davis?

You'd start someone who has never started at tackle or someone who was on the PS last year over the player we drafted at #11? AND you want to try to start him again next year?

That doesn't simply make no sense. That makes less than no sense. If Anthony Davis is benched halfway through his rookie campaign, then he's never going to be a starter for this team, and we wasted a #1 draft pick without giving the guy a fair shot. That's why its never going to happen, and why this thread is one of the dumbest I've seen on the Webzone.

It's not a matter of loyalty, its a matter of common sense. He's 20 years old, he's a rookie, and the only O-lineman that he gets to line up next to seems to change on each play. He's a raw talent who will have some great performances (like he already has this year) and will have some bad performances. And by playing through them, he'll get better, the line will gel, and in 2-3 years will have one of the best, and one of the youngest, lines in the league.

Wow! I can't believe that made sense in your head.

Look, you said it yourself. It may take 2-3 years before Davis is the guy we drafted him to be. Plus, benching a 20 year old, who's very raw, does not mean he'll never start again. That's nonsense.

Davis is killing us on the right side. Physically, he has the tools. Mentally though, he's not up to par (yet). Wragge played well at LT yesterday when Staley briefly went out. Sims played great when Staley was injured last season. Since Staley has experience on both sides of the line, it makes sense (to me) to start exploring different options to protect Smith. Boone? Who knows what he can do? I know he can't be worse than Davis is now.

We're in a close race to win the division and we finally have some excitement at the QB position. It's vital that the Oline protect Troy. Davis is fine when we play our rush-oriented attack, but as Johnson and Singletary move forward with Troy, he's going to see more and more pass attempts. That's what scares me about leaving Davis in there.

We had 3 TDs called back yesterday. Stupid penalties are killing our momentum. Davis' stupid holding penalty in the 4th almost lost the game for us. It negated Vernon's spectacular catch.

IMO, that's unacceptable. Just because someone is a 1st round pick doesn't mean they should be excused for poor play. If he was a mid-round pick, he wouldn't be starting. You know that. It's just like the whole Alex Smith fiasco. The team had so much money invested in him that they felt they had to start him, no matter what. That's a recipe for disaster. It ruins teams.

No one is excusing them for poor play....

What people are forgetting is that even when vets on other teams (when evaluated outside the 49ers dysfunctional coaching/personnel make-up) have bad games or struggling against a pass-rush, they give them help. There's nothing wrong with giving a struggling player help. Davis was left on an island even when it was clear he was struggling with Long. Sometimes you're just going to get your butt kicked in this league. It happens - especially if you're a rookie. That's not an excuse it's the truth.

It's amazing the amount of venom being spewed at Davis when Rachal who consistently gets chance after chance after chance and the only reason why he doesn't draw more attention is because he's a OG.

He was drafted as a raw, project player. That's what he is. Nowhere does that say "immediate starter". If you put a raw, project player out there by definition he's going have moments when he doesn't play like a starter.

I'm definitely not a fan of Chilo's either. It drives me nuts that mgmt drafted these "maulers" and we still can't run the ball. Rachal and Davis are killing us in protection. We reached for both of them and it's really hurting us. We're not very effective running the ball, so why acquire lineman that actually excel in pass protection. Our QBs haven't really been given much to work with.

Some people are acting like this was just one bad game for Davis. He's been doing this all year. Sure, when he gets his hands on people and is able to get his body in front of them, they're not going anywhere. You can also say that about most lineman in the NFL. How often does that happen though? DEs know they can run right around him. Chris Long is a hell of a player, but it's not like it's going to get much easier from week to week. The league is filled with pass rushers that can dominate big, slow RTs.

I understand that he's a young player and that he needs experience. I agree with that, but we're in position to challenge for the division and he's making it extremely difficult. I don't how many times I screamed his name yesterday. He's just not getting it done and with Wragge and Sims showing that they can play at a higher level, I don't understand why he's still in there. If Davis was actually making an impact in the running game, I could buy an argument for him to be left in, but he's struggling there also.

He's not ready and he shouldn't be on the field. With all the woes we've have at RT in the past years (Kwame, Snyder, Pashos), I'm surprised so many people are willing to accept his poor play. Last season, everyone insisted that we resign Sims because he played so well when Staley went down. Well, we did and even though he woud give us a better chance of winning, he's not on the field because we reached for Davis and has a bigger contract. There's a reason teams like Dallas, who actaully prefer larger lineman, had him evaluated as a 3rd rounder.
Originally posted by maximill15:
Joe staley wasn't this bad as a rookie. Davis is on a kwame path! Until he is ready, bring in simms to play left, move joe to RT. Bench chilo, bring in wragge

IMO, that's the best line we could assemble given our roster. Chilo and Davis could use the extra time to grasp the mental side of the game. They can get some reps in garbage time too.
Originally posted by maximill15:
Joe staley wasn't this bad as a rookie. Davis is on a kwame path! Until he is ready, bring in simms to play left, move joe to RT. Bench chilo, bring in wragge

Joe was a SR and much more developed than Davis. Also, Staley doesn't have Davis' upside also. He's 20. Please give him time.

I agree with you regarding the line changes.