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Smith + Crabtree = disaster (statistical proof)

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by billbird2111:

I understand that there are Alex Smith fans on this board who want to sink or swim with Alex at QB. Wins and losses do not matter. What matters is statistics and whether Alex is behind center.


0-6 will be the ONLY stat that matters. And it will be squarely on Alex Smith's shoulders.

Wait.... so Smith is the entire reason that we are losing in your opinion?

What matters is WINS. WINS are a team effort. Always. Though the degree of the team effort can vary.

The NT "hater" mantra seems to be that when the team wins, it is IN SPITE of Smith, but when it loses, it is BECAUSE of Smith.

All I ask is for consistency. If one thinks that wins are what matter, don't harp on a poor Smith performance if the team wins or loses. On the other hand, if one thinks that Smith's performance - win or lose - is what counts, then don't complain about losses when Smith plays well.

Can't have it both ways....

You make it sound like we've actually won with Smith. He has a 16-27 starting record. If we were 3-0 people wouldn't be killing Alex right now.

Nah, he's making it sound like whether we win or lose people blame Smith regardless if we win or lose. And you'd have to be lying to yourself if you think otherwise. And he's also pointing out that we have actually lost to 0-3 as a team, not just on Smith.

I don't buy that at all. If we were 3-0 or 2-1 for that matter Alex wouldn't be getting half of the criticism that he is. Jimmy Raye would still have his job, and Singletary wouldn't be on the hot seat.

Exactly. But like a lot of commentators say even if it's not the QB only because it's one of the important positions then he'll get the slack regardless. Which i can accpet. But the ones in here, knock him if he has a good or bad game.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
To WRs
Smith: 22 of 46, 264 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT
QB Rating: 36.9


Now remove plays thrown to Crabtree and you'll see the point of this thread.

LMAO, i was just gonna say that too
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Hate

Did not read.
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
To WRs
Smith: 22 of 46, 264 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT
QB Rating: 36.9


Now remove plays thrown to Crabtree and you'll see the point of this thread.

Crabtree is not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Mike Nolan was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Jimmy Raye was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Norv Turner was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Lame Kwame Harris is one of the worst tackles to ever start in the NFL -- but even he isn't to blame for Alex Smith Suckage.

Let's please stop this practice of throwing other players under the bus to explain the pi$$ poor play of Alex Smith?

This thread is ridiculous and should be locked immediately. Alex Smith has sucked for years. Bringing Crabtree onboard hasn't made him worse. Alex sucked as badly in 2005 as he sucks now in 2010.

This and That

I get the point, it's not Alex's fault he sucks now it's crabtree's

I don't care I put it ALL on Smith, stay late with Crabs, get on him to run his routes, build chemistry, be a f**king leader!

You think Drew Breese is great because all his wr's are great, or because he DEMANDS it from them?

Alex is a not an alpha male and everyone in the locker room smells it, he can't lead even if he tried. A real man would have told Nolan to Shut the f**k up and give me the damn ball, but Alex sat and took it, why because he is not an Alpha male he is a b***h!
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Didn't see the stat anywhere, but I ran the numbers....

Smith throwing to all WRs minus Crabtree: 95.5 rating
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Quote:
On Smith's 19 passes targeted at Crabtree, he has six completions for 81 yards with no touchdowns and four interceptions. Quarterback rating: 6.6.
On Smith's 100 passes targeted at other receivers, he has 66 completions for 651 yards with two touchdowns and one interception. Quarterback rating: 86.7.

Let's not pretend that 86.7 is a good QB rating. That would be good enough to rank 16th in the league.

Subtract all of his work against the team's best corner and he still can barely get to an average quarterback.
Originally posted by Canadian49er:
Interesting


Who would have thought Michael Crabtree's strained neck would cause Alex Smith so much pain?

After Crabtree missed most of training camp with his injury, his connection with his quarterback has been crippled in the season's first three games.

In fact, the numbers are stunning.

On Smith's 19 passes targeted at Crabtree, he has six completions for 81 yards with no touchdowns and four interceptions. Quarterback rating: 6.6.
On Smith's 100 passes targeted at other receivers, he has 66 completions for 651 yards with two touchdowns and one interception. Quarterback rating: 86.7.

In other words, throwing to No. 15 has cost Smith, who has a 66.2 rating, about 20 points.

It's been assumed that Crabtree is one of the "playmakers" the Niners will want to do a better job of "getting into open space" under Mike Johnson. Not saying that's a mistake - it's clear Crabtree has Pro-Bowl potential - but it's worth monitoring how much longer it takes Smith and the second-year wideout to get on the same page.

Here's a look at Smith's numbers when targeting Niners receivers this season (minimum 5 targets):

To WR Josh Morgan
Smith: 10 of 17, 114 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
QB Rating: 98.7

To TE Delanie Walker
Smith: 6 of 8, 59 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT
QB Rating: 95.3

To RB Frank Gore
Smith: 22 of 29, 203 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
QB Rating: 91.6

To TE Vernon Davis
Smith: 15 of 25, 173 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT
QB Rating: 80.9

To WR Dominique Zeigler
Smith: 5 of 8, 50 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT
QB Rating: 80.2

To WR Michael Crabtree
Smith: 6 of 19, 81 yards, 0 TD, 4 INT
QB Rating: 6.6

And, absolutely free today, Smith's numbers when targeting running backs, tight ends and wide receivers. :

To RBs
Smith: 26 of 35, 216 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
QB Rating: 87.3

To TEs
Smith: 24 of 36, 252 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT
QB Rating: 86.8

To WRs
Smith: 22 of 46, 264 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT
QB Rating: 36.9

Proof that Tree needs to be benched til the next Home game. Get them some Practice time and they should be fine. This is what happened last season. Smith had two weeks to prepare with Crabtree and they never looked back...

'til this season. Tree just is NOT prepared and you cannot try to get a Receiver who is unprepared back on track in a Road environment and IN A DOME. It's possible but Tree is too determined to let his talent do the work. You guys think that KC is loud?The Falcons Dome is a pretty intense background to play in.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
To WRs
Smith: 22 of 46, 264 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT
QB Rating: 36.9


Now remove plays thrown to Crabtree and you'll see the point of this thread.

Crabtree is not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Mike Nolan was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Jimmy Raye was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Norv Turner was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Lame Kwame Harris is one of the worst tackles to ever start in the NFL -- but even he isn't to blame for Alex Smith Suckage.

Let's please stop this practice of throwing other players under the bus to explain the pi$$ poor play of Alex Smith?

This thread is ridiculous and should be locked immediately. Alex Smith has sucked for years. Bringing Crabtree onboard hasn't made him worse. Alex sucked as badly in 2005 as he sucks now in 2010.

This and That

I get the point, it's not Alex's fault he sucks now it's crabtree's

I don't care I put it ALL on Smith, stay late with Crabs, get on him to run his routes, build chemistry, be a f**king leader!
You think Drew Breese is great because all his wr's are great, or because he DEMANDS it from them?

Alex is a not an alpha male and everyone in the locker room smells it, he can't lead even if he tried. A real man would have told Nolan to Shut the f**k up and give me the damn ball, but Alex sat and took it, why because he is not an Alpha male he is a b***h!

Now come on, do you think Steve would have to tell Jerry to stay. If anything Smith put his time in, and Crabs decided to sit out the entire pre-season. OR maybe u forgot what Sing said, the elephant finally showed itself. And why DAvis called him out. So come on, u can knock Smith which is cool, but put the same blame on CRabs as well, thats all im saying.

Crabs is a grown ass man, and just like Nate Davis, if he cant be an Alpha male, and take charge of his own life and position, and tell himself that he needs to work on his craft to be better, then he shouldnt be on the team. If i remember Smith stayed all summer throwing to all the wideouts including Crabs. But in the pre-season games, only they were able to build a rapport.

Even tho we went 4-0 in pre-season which dont mean s**t, it was funny how we won with Crabs out on the side, while Smith built a rapport with everyone else but Crabs. I mean i laughed when Zieglar doesnt have half the talent crabs might, besides his speed, but it's funny when i see him play the WR position better than CRabs, (right now that is). I mean he goes up and gets the ball, regardless of the pass, and doesnt tip the ball in the air, or seem to slip constantly, or above all, give alex 4 int's when throwing in his direction.

I mean this is about Smith and Crabs connection, and at this point, want to face fact or not, but Smith will most likely throw an INT when throwing in Crabs direction as opposed to everyone else. Which the stats were put up to prove just that.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Didn't see the stat anywhere, but I ran the numbers....

Smith throwing to all WRs minus Crabtree: 95.5 rating

Crabtree needs a leader to get him out on the field, do you think Smith can inspire him? it's obvious he can't. And good leaders inspire and make those around them better!

While you're cooking up numbers check the ratings of the top 3 QB's when passing to their receivers, is Alex on par? does it matter? Smith is a p***y! He is not a leader of men he is plain and simple a mouse, a follower a loser great in college but not NFL talent, he lacks the intangible the un-statable he lacks leadership.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Quote:
On Smith's 19 passes targeted at Crabtree, he has six completions for 81 yards with no touchdowns and four interceptions. Quarterback rating: 6.6.
On Smith's 100 passes targeted at other receivers, he has 66 completions for 651 yards with two touchdowns and one interception. Quarterback rating: 86.7.

Let's not pretend that 86.7 is a good QB rating. That would be good enough to rank 16th in the league.

Subtract all of his work against the team's best corner and he still can barely get to an average quarterback.

Play calling on the Road with a young OLine didn't play any part in that right? Did you NOT see that Smith averages over 90 in most cases. Not good enough to be top 7 or even 8. But not bad for a guy people refer to as a Bust.

Face it, Smith is NOT as bad as he's made out to be around here. I hope Johnson can actually call a good flow of calls to keep momentum in our favor. Not calling two Screens on top of each other, not calling a FB Dive when a HB Counter would work better. I would like to see more Play Action, which Raye RARELY ever called. Smith can sell fakes to the RB pretty damn well. I just never understood why Raye and Sing did not get together and create a game plan using a lot of Play Action. Especially when they went to the Spreadcoast last season. Maybe 1 or 2 out of every 15 plays was Play Action. And that's being generous on my part.

I'm not going to hold my breath for a good outcome in Atlanta, but we should at least be in the same building in the event of a Loss.

We were not even in the same zip codes in Shattle and Kansas Shatty.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
To WRs
Smith: 22 of 46, 264 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT
QB Rating: 36.9


Now remove plays thrown to Crabtree and you'll see the point of this thread.

Crabtree is not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Mike Nolan was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Jimmy Raye was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Norv Turner was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Lame Kwame Harris is one of the worst tackles to ever start in the NFL -- but even he isn't to blame for Alex Smith Suckage.

Let's please stop this practice of throwing other players under the bus to explain the pi$$ poor play of Alex Smith?

This thread is ridiculous and should be locked immediately. Alex Smith has sucked for years. Bringing Crabtree onboard hasn't made him worse. Alex sucked as badly in 2005 as he sucks now in 2010.

This and That

I get the point, it's not Alex's fault he sucks now it's crabtree's

I don't care I put it ALL on Smith, stay late with Crabs, get on him to run his routes, build chemistry, be a f**king leader!
You think Drew Breese is great because all his wr's are great, or because he DEMANDS it from them?

Alex is a not an alpha male and everyone in the locker room smells it, he can't lead even if he tried. A real man would have told Nolan to Shut the f**k up and give me the damn ball, but Alex sat and took it, why because he is not an Alpha male he is a b***h!

Now come on, do you think Steve would have to tell Jerry to stay. If anything Smith put his time in, and Crabs decided to sit out the entire pre-season. OR maybe u forgot what Sing said, the elephant finally showed itself. And why DAvis called him out. So come on, u can knock Smith which is cool, but put the same blame on CRabs as well, thats all im saying.

Crabs is a grown ass man, and just like Nate Davis, if he cant be an Alpha male, and take charge of his own life and position, and tell himself that he needs to work on his craft to be better, then he shouldnt be on the team. If i remember Smith stayed all summer throwing to all the wideouts including Crabs. But in the pre-season games, only they were able to build a rapport.

Even tho we went 4-0 in pre-season which dont mean s**t, it was funny how we won with Crabs out on the side, while Smith built a rapport with everyone else but Crabs. I mean i laughed when Zieglar doesnt have half the talent crabs might, besides his speed, but it's funny when i see him play the WR position better than CRabs, (right now that is). I mean he goes up and gets the ball, regardless of the pass, and doesnt tip the ball in the air, or seem to slip constantly, or above all, give alex 4 int's when throwing in his direction.

I mean this is about Smith and Crabs connection, and at this point, want to face fact or not, but Smith will most likely throw an INT when throwing in Crabs direction as opposed to everyone else. Which the stats were put up to prove just that.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Quote:
On Smith's 19 passes targeted at Crabtree, he has six completions for 81 yards with no touchdowns and four interceptions. Quarterback rating: 6.6.
On Smith's 100 passes targeted at other receivers, he has 66 completions for 651 yards with two touchdowns and one interception. Quarterback rating: 86.7.

Let's not pretend that 86.7 is a good QB rating. That would be good enough to rank 16th in the league.

Subtract all of his work against the team's best corner and he still can barely get to an average quarterback.

Play calling on the Road with a young OLine didn't play any part in that right? Did you NOT see that Smith averages over 90 in most cases. Not good enough to be top 7 or even 8. But not bad for a guy people refer to as a Bust.

Face it, Smith is NOT as bad as he's made out to be around here. I hope Johnson can actually call a good flow of calls to keep momentum in our favor. Not calling two Screens on top of each other, not calling a FB Dive when a HB Counter would work better. I would like to see more Play Action, which Raye RARELY ever called. Smith can sell fakes to the RB pretty damn well. I just never understood why Raye and Sing did not get together and create a game plan using a lot of Play Action. Especially when they went to the Spreadcoast last season. Maybe 1 or 2 out of every 15 plays was Play Action. And that's being generous on my part.

I'm not going to hold my breath for a good outcome in Atlanta, but we should at least be in the same building in the event of a Loss.

We were not even in the same zip codes in Shattle and Kansas Shatty.

~Ceadder

Every team has 8 road games a year. Everyone else faces the same stuff Alex does.

If you selectively pick out stats like you guys are doing with Alex I guarantee you every QB in this league is going to average in the 90's. It's not an accomplishment when you say minus this guy and minus this guy and when it's a sunny day Alex has a 92 rating.

I'm just going to agree with you that hopefully Johnson brings out the best in him. I don't think the season is lost just yet.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Oct 1, 2010 at 11:31 AM ]
I hope Crabtree does get benched.. then when Smith still sucks we can finally move on from the 6 years of terrible he's been.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
To WRs
Smith: 22 of 46, 264 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT
QB Rating: 36.9


Now remove plays thrown to Crabtree and you'll see the point of this thread.

Crabtree is not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Mike Nolan was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Jimmy Raye was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Norv Turner was not to blame for Alex Smith Suckage
Lame Kwame Harris is one of the worst tackles to ever start in the NFL -- but even he isn't to blame for Alex Smith Suckage.

Let's please stop this practice of throwing other players under the bus to explain the pi$$ poor play of Alex Smith?

This thread is ridiculous and should be locked immediately. Alex Smith has sucked for years. Bringing Crabtree onboard hasn't made him worse. Alex sucked as badly in 2005 as he sucks now in 2010.

This and That

I get the point, it's not Alex's fault he sucks now it's crabtree's

I don't care I put it ALL on Smith, stay late with Crabs, get on him to run his routes, build chemistry, be a f**king leader!
You think Drew Breese is great because all his wr's are great, or because he DEMANDS it from them?

Alex is a not an alpha male and everyone in the locker room smells it, he can't lead even if he tried. A real man would have told Nolan to Shut the f**k up and give me the damn ball, but Alex sat and took it, why because he is not an Alpha male he is a b***h!

Now come on, do you think Steve would have to tell Jerry to stay. If anything Smith put his time in, and Crabs decided to sit out the entire pre-season. OR maybe u forgot what Sing said, the elephant finally showed itself. And why DAvis called him out. So come on, u can knock Smith which is cool, but put the same blame on CRabs as well, thats all im saying.

Crabs is a grown ass man, and just like Nate Davis, if he cant be an Alpha male, and take charge of his own life and position, and tell himself that he needs to work on his craft to be better, then he shouldnt be on the team. If i remember Smith stayed all summer throwing to all the wideouts including Crabs. But in the pre-season games, only they were able to build a rapport.

Even tho we went 4-0 in pre-season which dont mean s**t, it was funny how we won with Crabs out on the side, while Smith built a rapport with everyone else but Crabs. I mean i laughed when Zieglar doesnt have half the talent crabs might, besides his speed, but it's funny when i see him play the WR position better than CRabs, (right now that is). I mean he goes up and gets the ball, regardless of the pass, and doesnt tip the ball in the air, or seem to slip constantly, or above all, give alex 4 int's when throwing in his direction.

I mean this is about Smith and Crabs connection, and at this point, want to face fact or not, but Smith will most likely throw an INT when throwing in Crabs direction as opposed to everyone else. Which the stats were put up to prove just that.

Are you comparing Crabtree to Jerry Rice, you know who Jerry Rice was don't you? He was the greatest player at any position ever in NFL history, yea a far comparison! LOL

You say VD had to call him out, why? Because Alex Smith is too much of a puss, VD had to be the leader!

Have you heard any of the interviews with Saints receivers? Drew Breese stays late EVERY DAY and DEMANDS the same from his wide outs, how late do they stay? Until Drew is done! What does he demand in the off season, the same hard work and dedication.

Is Crabtree a lazy puss, looks like it from here, his leader has to take him aside and straiten him out, to bad it's VD not Alex.

Alex is simply not an Alpha Male, he is incapable of leadership.That seems to be the one missing peice of an otherwise gifted kid, not his fault just who he is made.
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Didn't see the stat anywhere, but I ran the numbers....

Smith throwing to all WRs minus Crabtree: 95.5 rating

Crabtree needs a leader to get him out on the field, do you think Smith can inspire him? it's obvious he can't. And good leaders inspire and make those around them better!

While you're cooking up numbers check the ratings of the top 3 QB's when passing to their receivers, is Alex on par? does it matter? Smith is a p***y! He is not a leader of men he is plain and simple a mouse, a follower a loser great in college but not NFL talent, he lacks the intangible the un-statable he lacks leadership.

If Tree needs Alex to inspire him then he SHOULD be sitting on his ass. Smith seems to inspire EVERYONE ELSE and that's what a Leader does.

A Leader of Men does not allow the ONE to control what he does. A leader of Men LEADS and that's what Smith does. a 95 Rating? Holy hell. If that was any one of the Rookies that people are so gaga over Smith about you'd be whining why we don't have them instead of Smith. Smith posts this with his own guys save for ONE and you're calling him a p8$$y???

Gotta love the Zone and our bound determination to find the next HoF QB.

~Ceadder