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Make Dominique Zeigler #1 WO untill Michael Crabtree pulls his head outa his a$$

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:
Originally posted by nyc49erking:
We have all seen what Josh Morgan has to offer on the field. Quite frankly, he does not have much to offer, at all. He is short, slow and a body catcher. He creates know separation on the field and on a championship caliber team, which the 49ers strive to be in the future, Morgan would be the 4th wide out. Zeigler has a good connection with Smith, he is a hard worker, a big target, HE CATCHES THE BALL WITH HIS HANDS, and most importantly he has earned his way in my opinion of being the #2 WR.

What do you guys think?
SPEAK THE TRUTH, NO MORE BS!!!!

nyc49erking

Zeigler is a big target? Really? Wow.

He is listed as 6-3, 185. What is the problem?

That hard to figure out? He is 185. Him being 6'3" just makes that worse. He is a toothpick. Not saying he isn't a good player, but calling him a big target is flat out wrong. Tall does not equal big.

As a QB, you would rather throw to a wide body?

You are missing the point entirely. It's pointless to converse with you.

You're very quick to make rash judgements. Very telling.

No, I'm just not going to waste my time with someone who puts words in my mouth. I never said anything about who a qb would rather throw to. Simply that zeigler does not meet the definition of a "big target" . you are tying to make it into a bigger argument than that.

No, I was merely staing that the definition of "big target" isn't as rigid as you make it out to be. It really depends on how the player uses they're size. Given Zeigler's hands, he can get the jump ball. Catch the ball in traffic. His long arms offer him a larger target around him to get the ball. More specifically, the high ones (Smith's tendancy).

You get stuck on terms too easily. I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I asked you a simple question. Your reaction was childish and silly. Not that it matters of course. Just remember, opinions and perceptions vary.

Name 1 other 185 lb NFL wr that has been referred to as a big target.

I'm waiting.....
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
Ziegler=Brandon Lloyd

Thank you for making my case. Lloyd is a better player than Morgan because he gets open and actually catch the ball with his hands, unlike Mr. Josh Mike Williams Morgan
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
i fail to see what Zeigler has done to earn a starting job, though I'd like to see him on the field more.

This is a valid point, but it may be more what the other guys have done to RETAIN theirs. Ziggy obviously has more rapport with both QB's and they have states he's earned their trust. he has decent speed, catches virtually everything his hands touch and runs perhaps the best routes on the team. Morgan can block; that's about it and Crabs has a sense of entitlement and plays below his capabilities. 'Nuf said? I say if either of them continues to play subpar or continues with the attitude (Crabs), bench 'em and start Ziggy for at least a game or two to make a point. Then, if he continues to perform, let the chips fall where they may.
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
i fail to see what Zeigler has done to earn a starting job, though I'd like to see him on the field more.

This is a valid point, but it may be more what the other guys have done to RETAIN theirs. Ziggy obviously has more rapport with both QB's and they have states he's earned their trust. he has decent speed, catches virtually everything his hands touch and runs perhaps the best routes on the team. Morgan can block; that's about it and Crabs has a sense of entitlement and plays below his capabilities. 'Nuf said? I say if either of them continues to play subpar or continues with the attitude (Crabs), bench 'em and start Ziggy for at least a game or two to make a point. Then, if he continues to perform, let the chips fall where they may.

Morgan was our best WR last week, and while he's never super-inspiring, I haven't seen him do anything to lose that job. Crabtree had an awful game, but he was clearly our most talented WR last season. If he has an equally awful game tonight, then maybe we can start talking about demoting him, but its extremely premature to bench the kid when he was merely one of a number of players who turned in awful performances.

Zeigler finally worked his way up from the PS. He's got one catch to his name. I want to see him play more to see what he can do, but he's either got to clearly earn the job or the other guys have to clearly lose it, and I haven't seen either happen.
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
i fail to see what Zeigler has done to earn a starting job, though I'd like to see him on the field more.

Agreed. The fact he is even in this conversation shows how shallow the talent pool is at WR on this team.

i think that the fact that this conversation is happening shows show shallow the gene pool is in Niner Talk.

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
i fail to see what Zeigler has done to earn a starting job, though I'd like to see him on the field more.

This is a valid point, but it may be more what the other guys have done to RETAIN theirs. Ziggy obviously has more rapport with both QB's and they have states he's earned their trust. he has decent speed, catches virtually everything his hands touch and runs perhaps the best routes on the team. Morgan can block; that's about it and Crabs has a sense of entitlement and plays below his capabilities. 'Nuf said? I say if either of them continues to play subpar or continues with the attitude (Crabs), bench 'em and start Ziggy for at least a game or two to make a point. Then, if he continues to perform, let the chips fall where they may.

Morgan was our best WR last week, and while he's never super-inspiring, I haven't seen him do anything to lose that job. Crabtree had an awful game, but he was clearly our most talented WR last season. If he has an equally awful game tonight, then maybe we can start talking about demoting him, but its extremely premature to bench the kid when he was merely one of a number of players who turned in awful performances.

Zeigler finally worked his way up from the PS. He's got one catch to his name. I want to see him play more to see what he can do, but he's either got to clearly earn the job or the other guys have to clearly lose it, and I haven't seen either happen.


Gotta give Crabs another chance. If he lines up incorrectly, sit his ass. If only Singletary would treat Crabs like he would any other player. Singletary has bumbled this too.
Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:
Originally posted by nyc49erking:
We have all seen what Josh Morgan has to offer on the field. Quite frankly, he does not have much to offer, at all. He is short, slow and a body catcher. He creates know separation on the field and on a championship caliber team, which the 49ers strive to be in the future, Morgan would be the 4th wide out. Zeigler has a good connection with Smith, he is a hard worker, a big target, HE CATCHES THE BALL WITH HIS HANDS, and most importantly he has earned his way in my opinion of being the #2 WR.

What do you guys think?
SPEAK THE TRUTH, NO MORE BS!!!!

nyc49erking

Zeigler is a big target? Really? Wow.

He is listed as 6-3, 185. What is the problem?

That hard to figure out? He is 185. Him being 6'3" just makes that worse. He is a toothpick. Not saying he isn't a good player, but calling him a big target is flat out wrong. Tall does not equal big.

As a QB, you would rather throw to a wide body?

You are missing the point entirely. It's pointless to converse with you.

You're very quick to make rash judgements. Very telling.

No, I'm just not going to waste my time with someone who puts words in my mouth. I never said anything about who a qb would rather throw to. Simply that zeigler does not meet the definition of a "big target" . you are tying to make it into a bigger argument than that.

No, I was merely staing that the definition of "big target" isn't as rigid as you make it out to be. It really depends on how the player uses they're size. Given Zeigler's hands, he can get the jump ball. Catch the ball in traffic. His long arms offer him a larger target around him to get the ball. More specifically, the high ones (Smith's tendancy).

You get stuck on terms too easily. I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I asked you a simple question. Your reaction was childish and silly. Not that it matters of course. Just remember, opinions and perceptions vary.

Name 1 other 185 lb NFL wr that has been referred to as a big target.

I'm waiting.....

all very entertaining stuff.

but to jump in, the guy who is having his jersey retired tonight was about Ziggy's size when he came in the league. they have similar body, same pros and cons in their game. size isnt as important as being able to create space, which comes from crisp routes and veteran savvy. ziggy could be a monster possesion wr in the waiting, we just dont know yet.

in case you are completely unaware of the "big target" im refering to:


I have that Card.

Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by theninermaniac:
I like Zeigler, and we should get him on the field more, but starting seems absurd. Unless we go to a spread offense, or Morgan gets injured, he wont see the field.

If we are going to play this silly game, start Ziegler instead of Crabtree. Morgan may have some limitations but he works hard all the time. Time to send young Michael a lesson about what it takes to play in this league.

I'm all for this. I don't think that he takes plays off, but being prepared is his job. He's not so he should sit.

~Ceadder

[ Edited by Ceadderman on Sep 20, 2010 at 13:53:06 ]
My favorite part of this post is when he replaced the word no with know by saying "Morgan creates know separation."
Cracked me up.

[ Edited by Sjceruti on Sep 20, 2010 at 13:57:54 ]
I don't understand where all this mis-information is coming from. People hear something said somewhere and they repeat it like it's gospel.

Morgan DOES in fact get off the line well. He's actually highly skilled at beating the jam and he has decent acceleration out of his cuts. He's very physical and uses his body well to shield defenders. On top of that, he has a pretty sick vertical. What he lacks is top end speed. It's safe to say he's not a burner by any stretch of the imagination. But by all accounts, he made a lot of improvements to his route running this off-season. Give him time, I think he he will have a pretty good year for us, assuming the OL can pass block and Alex can get him the ball.
Originally posted by 49erAllTheWay:
Show him just b/c he was a #1 pick his position isnt carved in stone

Agree, he needs to prove he is the #1
Originally posted by kstolai:
Originally posted by 49erAllTheWay:
Show him just b/c he was a #1 pick his position isnt carved in stone

Agree, he needs to prove he is the #1

right. and Zeigler has certainly proved it, so this makes total sense!
Hell yes.
I was kind've disappointed somewhat with Crabs (last night) on that 30 yard reception. Mike made enough moves to break an 80yd TD but was stiff coming out of the bump-and-run (and it led to an easy tackle), that's something only TC/preseason can fully sharpen.
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I was kind've disappointed somewhat with Crabs (last night) on that 30 yard reception. Mike made enough moves to break an 80yd TD but was stiff coming out of the bump-and-run (and it led to an easy tackle), that's something only TC/preseason can fully sharpen.

i'm not sure its fair to be disappointed in anything about that play. He made a good catch and a great move to gain some extra yards, but he had two defenders to split through to really come clear. He's not the fastest WR, sure, but he's got other attributes that makes up for it, IMO.

Also, on that second tipped pass, he was pretty wide open, and the pass was on target--I think he could have turned that into a HUGE gain, if not a TD, a la his TD play against AZ last year.