Coaching Wasn't Nearly as Bad as You Think!

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
The loss was the whole organizations fault.
but the failed FB dive gave coaching the F.

But can you not agree that if the players would of executed some of those very simple plays we probably would of won that game? All those failures really demoralized our team. By the time the 3Q rolled around it was clear we had to pass and the Chicken defense was just Ting off on us. Every defense will tell you that's exactly where they want an offense to be, obvious passing situations.

100% true.
One thing I hated seeing is the lack of Heart when we were down. Last year we fought till the end even if we were getting killed. By the 4th 90% of the team gave up.

I couldn't agree more......once the team got down 21-6 (right after halftime), they lay down like dogs....and THAT is on the coaching staff....as is the incredibly telegraphed and predictable offensive game plan as well as the decisions to not play Westbrook or Dixon....not to mention putting Norris in a key position on a vital 4th down play.
One more thing....the Seahawks had many vulnerabilities going into this game....total makeshift OL, inexperienced DLmen, a rookie S, a QB who is basically immobile, and a couple of WRs who hadn't played much in the past year. The Niners didn't even try to exploit those weaknesses. The Seahawks on the other hand, prepared for and took full advantage of every Niner weakness (gun shy QB, CBs that bite on a pump fake, etc.)....

The greater point here is that the Niners were totally outcoached, outsmarted, and of course, outplayed. The Niners were simply NOT PREPARED at all to play, especially in a place like Quest, the loudest venue in the league. Pathetic performance from everyone.....except maybe Patrick Willis and Vernon Davis. Most of the other players quit early in the second half.

"I wonder, if Gruden or Cowher were HC, would the Seattle game have been much different? I think so."

Moot point, since the Yorks took over and fired Mooch we have had Erickson, Nolan and Singletary all low budget coaches. Gruden and Cowher are going to command top dollar. Do you honestly think the Yorks who tried to take away the player's Gatorade are going to pay 10 million a year for one of those guys?

sing can't coach

a FB dive that didnt work

a pass to the FB that didn't work

thanks Jimmy

Originally posted by BobS:
"I wonder, if Gruden or Cowher were HC, would the Seattle game have been much different? I think so."

Moot point, since the Yorks took over and fired Mooch we have had Erickson, Nolan and Singletary all low budget coaches. Gruden and Cowher are going to command top dollar. Do you honestly think the Yorks who tried to take away the player's Gatorade are going to pay 10 million a year for one of those guys?

what are you talking about? the yorks fired donahue and erickson with years left on their deals, they paid them a lot of money to leave then hire Nolan. they even wanted Carroll but couldn't get him. so yeah, they're willing to pay top dollar for a guy like Gruden

[ Edited by WestCoast on Sep 15, 2010 at 01:28:42 ]

Originally posted by AKfanster:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
NCommand,

As you recall, one of last year's running jokes about Raye was "we want second half Jimmy Raye calling the first half." He has a decent enough track record for making adjustments. As for last weekend's game, he seemed to show up with a halfway decent game plan until everything went to pot. And, as has been explained in this thread, things went pear shaped largely because of poor execution on the field.

That's a great line! I don't consider an OC having to change to a spread last year b/c we're down 4 TD's "making an adjustment." This is something we HAD to do last year, eve with Shaun Hill making a couple miracle comebacks in the 4th for us to squeak out a win. This is all philosophy and poor coaching. That's not to dismiss the obvious piss poor execution by the players; not at all. But a good coach puts his best players in the best position to succeed. We don't have that kind of coaching. Period. 4th and an inch? You QB sneak. You want a sneak pass off the line on 4th down when everyone is expecting a run? Good call but you use a player who has hands and NOT the player with the worst documented hands on the team. Period. I can go on for hours about how we consistently get outcoached, good players continue to be put in bad situations and talent rarely is used properly. But sadly, all you need to do is watch the opponents to see the glaring differences between an NFL coaching staff with common sense and ours. Of the aforementioned issues I noted, at the end of the day, none of these issues have been fixed in any way from 2009 and a whole off-season to fix them. It's not like the coaching staff didn't know what our GLARING weaknesses were...they had their work cut out for them and even the most ignorant and uneducated fan can spot them. This year...2010...is all about the coaching. I can't stress that enough.

You're right on the money again NC. This year is all about coaching. And if a change isn't made, it will be all about how Sing being to stubborn to admit his philosphy doesn't work in today's NFL.
This is the EXACT same offense from the first half of last season. Run the ball at any and all costs and use the short passing game to call it "balanced". Didn't we already see the outcome of that scheme?

The coaches had all year to re-think this offense. Sing was given Ginn, a speedy WR that could also fix the punt return issues. Ginn was supposed to stretch the field on offense to help open things up underneath.
The draft comes along and Sing gets 650lbs of starting O-line help. This was supposed to help open holes for the running game and help protect Alex.
Finally, Sing gets another gift. The team signs Westbrook in the preseason. Granted he has lost a step, but Westbrook gives the team a change of pace. Westbrook is a dangerous threat out of the backfield in the passing game and maybe could even get a running play or two to the outside. This was starting to look like a decent off-season. Throw Ginn and Westbrook in with Gore, VD, and Crabtree and you have some weapons! Add a new and improved O-line and this team could resemble a real offense!

After 1 game it's obvious that nothing has changed. This is the same offense from last season, only instead of Hill it's Smith at QB. Instead of Westbrook catching the ball out of the backfield, it's still Norris. Instead of hitting a streaking Ginn downfield on 3rd and long, it's still the same old draw play to Gore for 3 yds. And just like last season, the division is at stake.

How long will it take this season? How many loses is it going to take before we see an aggressive offense before the 3rd quarter? How long will it take for Sing to finally listen to his players (GB from last season ring a bell)? Singletary should just tell us up front. Will it be week 9? Maybe it will happen earlier than last season, week 4 maybe! When? When will we see a REAL offense before the team is down by 3 TDs.
The division crown is right there! All he has to do is take it.


Keep waiting Sing and watch as the "2010 49ers, NFC West Champs" slowly fades away to "2010 49ers 7-9, third place in the NFC west"

+1.

dj43, that is exactly the point the announcers made during the game on Direct TV. They commented over and over how the 9ers couldn't get the play in on time. Actually, i managed to scan all game this weekend, and didn't see or hear of anyone else having to call TOs to get plays in on time , and i guarantee you , nobody had a 4th and inches on goal line, and needed to call TO because play didn't get in on time, but couldn't do it...because alex had already burned 2 TOs due to plays coming in late. That is not a problem, it is a cancer. It is pretty simple. Cut that out or this team dies before it plays 4 games.

Actually another game like that and only a fool would keep BM(big Mike) and JR on as coaches. Slow thinking coaches have no place in pro football as HC or OCs. And knowing they are slow thinkers, wouldn't a natural thing be to have scripted plays PLUS another set of scripted plays for 3rd and 2 on the 20, 4th and inches on the goal line? Obviously they don't which just further proves they have no business being in these positions. BM, especially, just lacks the know how to coach WR,QB, RB, TE, DL, DB, OC, DC, and HC...because he had never had experience coaching any of these slots before. I would love to see BM kept on as LB coach. More than that, the man has proved incapable..and JR is no better.

[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Sep 15, 2010 at 11:22:07 ]

Originally posted by egoonda:
I know it sucks to change an OC in the middle of a season... no time to install an offense, etc... BUT - with the talent around the Offense (not counting QB), perhaps we could entertain bringing in a WCO O-Coordinator, and a QB who could thrive in that type of offense (even Carr might work here). The WCO is QB friendly, and it has enough variations to allow for the type of talent we have.

I hate the idea of yet another OC, but if it ain't Smith as the QB, and the coordinator gets a WCO-friendly/experienced QB (there are some - including some journeymen out there), we might actually have a better (and less offensively predictable) season.

Keep Sing as HC, but he should focus strictly on motivation and the D side of the ball. Let an OC with WCO history take the offensive reins. Even if the coordinator doesn't stick around, the system will sustain itself - remember the Niners of the 80s, 90s? There is a LOT of coaching and QB talent around the league that is familiar with our "grand old offense".

Bring back the WCO. I know football, having played it for years, and I understand what changing an Offense means, but in this case it is worth it. In a weak Division we can still win it if we act now!

I think that Raye should relay plays to Smith from the sidelines and Johnson calls the shots from the boot. If the problem is Raye initiating plays then it can only be fixed by having someone else calling the plays and getting their feet wet at OC and Raye parroting the call into Smith.

I don't know what the issue is and nor do I care, I can only give my opinion based on what is said. I think that if the issue is what is being made of it Raye is unfortunately done. But we can't be d!ck!n around with a new OC or a new Scheme. So we use what we have and make the best of a bad situation.

~Ceadder

Another example of poor coaching and thought process was the apparent TD to Morgan. Right when I saw the catch, I was screaming for the PAT team to get out there, quickly. Someone in the booth should have been telling Singeltary to kick that ball, and fast. But no. Carroll hesistated in throwing that flag too. We have to be smarter about those things.

Originally posted by MBniner:
Another example of poor coaching and thought process was the apparent TD to Morgan. Right when I saw the catch, I was screaming for the PAT team to get out there, quickly. Someone in the booth should have been telling Singeltary to kick that ball, and fast. But no. Carroll hesistated in throwing that flag too. We have to be smarter about those things.

Good point! I didn't even think of that. That's on the QB too and team to hurry their arses up!

Originally posted by eastbay9erfn:
Throw some money at a real coach...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Meyer

No way. If Meyer threatens to retire because of the pressure of the college season is giving him chest pains, then there's no way he survives in the NFL.

pretty obvious by now that the coaching was actually worse than we thought

Originally posted by znk916:
pretty obvious by now that the coaching was actually worse than we thought

Why is that cause for laughter and a thumbs up?

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by znk916:
pretty obvious by now that the coaching was actually worse than we thought

Why is that cause for laughter and a thumbs up?

I think I'm still in the shock phase of the 8 stages of denial or whatever it is

I keep hearing how the 9ers came out Sunday and dominated Seattle for about 25 minutes of the 1st half..... I disagree.. we had Seattle on their heels several times and still could not deliver....IMO that's not dominating. Bad play calling by coaches, plays not getting in on time, results in bad play..of course players must execute,and they didn't for sure and they share the blame. But did our coaches put them in the best situation to succeed,playing to the players STRENGTHS. NO, Singletary/Raye put them a situation to have momentum swing while playing on the ROAD.I understand in taking a gamble, but this isn't poker where you can bluff As a head coach its Singletary's responsibility to know his team and what it can and cannot do. He has tried over and over again in his stubborn pride to make this team a physical run and run it again team.But he doesn't have all the types of players needed for that philosophy. He does have the talent to create mis-matches, mis -directions confuse a defense by shifting the line, putting players in motion. Spread the defense by using more then 2 wide receiver sets. But that would take imagination.....To me, the Coaching was as bad as I thought in Seattle!
That being said I'm still pulling for Singletary,(definitely think RAYE should go!!) Since mooch He's the best coach we had. I'll continue to to hope the best for Singletary.. But as it was said in another thread...its time for results....

Originally posted by dugo:
I keep hearing how the 9ers came out Sunday and dominated Seattle for about 25 minutes of the 1st half..... I disagree.. we had Seattle on their heels several times and still could not deliver....IMO that's not dominating. Bad play calling by coaches, plays not getting in on time, results in bad play..of course players must execute,and they didn't for sure and they share the blame. But did our coaches put them in the best situation to succeed,playing to the players STRENGTHS. NO, Singletary/Raye put them a situation to have momentum swing while playing on the ROAD.I understand in taking a gamble, but this isn't poker where you can bluff As a head coach its Singletary's responsibility to know his team and what it can and cannot do. He has tried over and over again in his stubborn pride to make this team a physical run and run it again team.But he doesn't have all the types of players needed for that philosophy. He does have the talent to create mis-matches, mis -directions confuse a defense by shifting the line, putting players in motion. Spread the defense by using more then 2 wide receiver sets. But that would take imagination.....To me, the Coaching was as bad as I thought in Seattle!
That being said I'm still pulling for Singletary,(definitely think RAYE should go!!) Since mooch He's the best coach we had. I'll continue to to hope the best for Singletary.. But as it was said in another thread...its time for results....

Defense dominating
SEA first 3 possessions was 9 plays total. INT and 11 yards total

Offense mostly dominating
We were dominating whenever OC Raye was not required to make a gameday decision. Our script ended around the 2 min warning in the 2nd QTR. 3 plays after we went off script Smith threw his INT that bounced off Crabtree.

I posted this in the Raye/Memory thread but it is shocking when you look at it.

The 49ers run 15 scripted plays and go off script for 3rd downs and red zone plays.


Lets play CONNECT THE DOTS WITH JIMMY RAYE

San Francisco 49ers at 14:51 SFO SEA
(scripted#1)1st and 10 at SEA 29 F.Gore up the middle to SEA 25 for 4 yards (C.Cole).
(scripted#2)2nd and 6 at SEA 25 A.Smith pass short left to Del.Walker pushed ob at SEA 18 for 7 yards (K.Jennings).
(REDZONE = off script....WAKE UP JIMMY RAYE) Timeout #1 by SF at 13:39.
1st and 10 at SEA 18 F.Gore up the middle to SEA 15 for 3 yards (R.Bryant).
2nd and 2 at SEA 10 A.Smith pass short left to M.Norris to SEA 8 for 2 yards (L.Milloy).
1st and 8 at SEA 8 A.Smith pass short right to J.Morgan for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Seattle challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was REVERSED. A.Smith pass incomplete short right to J.Morgan.
2nd and 8 at SEA 8 F.Gore left guard to SEA 6 for 2 yards (C.Cole).
3rd and 6 at SEA 6 (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short left to F.Gore to SEA 5 for 1 yard (K.Jennings).
4th and 5 at SEA 5 J.Nedney 23 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Jennings, Holder-A.Lee. 3 0
J.Nedney kicks 64 yards from SF 30 to SEA 6. L.Washington to SEA 47 for 41 yards (J.Nedney).
DRIVE TOTALS: SF 3, SEA 0, 8 plays, 32 yards, 4:35 elapsed


San Francisco 49ers at 8:11 SFO SEA
(scripted#3)1st and 10 at SF 10 F.Gore right tackle to SF 13 for 3 yards (C.Cole, D.Hawthorne).
(scripted#4)2nd and 7 at SF 13 A.Smith pass short right to V.Davis to SF 21 for 8 yards (L.Milloy).
(scripted#5)1st and 10 at SF 21 A.Smith pass short left to J.Morgan to SF 29 for 8 yards (E.Thomas).
(scripted#6)2nd and 2 at SF 29 F.Gore right tackle to SF 30 for 1 yard (A.Curry).
3rd and 1 at SF 30 A.Smith pass short left to Del.Walker to SF 44 for 14 yards (E.Thomas).
(scripted#7)1st and 10 at SF 44 A.Smith pass short middle to V.Davis to SEA 47 for 9 yards (L.Tatupu).
(scripted#8)2nd and 1 at SEA 47 F.Gore up the middle to SEA 44 for 3 yards (D.Davis, B.Mebane).
(scripted#9)1st and 10 at SEA 44 A.Smith pass short right to F.Gore to SEA 35 for 9 yards (L.Tatupu; D.Hawthorne).
(scripted#10)2nd and 1 at SEA 35 F.Gore left tackle to SEA 29 for 6 yards (C.Cole).
(scripted#11)1st and 10 at SEA 29 F.Gore right end to SEA 33 for -4 yards (E.Thomas).
(scripted#12)2nd and 19 at SEA 38 A.Smith pass short left to F.Gore pushed ob at SEA 15 for 23 yards (K.Jennings).
End of Period
2nd Quarter Play by Play
1st and 10 at SEA 15 A.Smith pass incomplete short left to M.Crabtree (K.Jennings).
2nd and 10 at SEA 15 (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short left to F.Gore pushed ob at SEA 6 for 9 yards (A.Curry).
3rd and 1 at SEA 6 F.Gore left tackle to SEA 6 for no gain (R.Bryant, E.Thomas).
Timeout #2 by SF at 13:41.
4th and 1 at SEA 6 A.Smith pass incomplete short left to M.Norris.
DRIVE TOTALS: SF 3, SEA 0, 15 plays, 89 yards, 9:35 elapsed



San Francisco 49ers at 12:11 SFO SEA
(scripted#13)1st and 10 at SEA 37 A.Smith sacked at SEA 44 for -7 yards (R.Bryant). FUMBLES (R.Bryant) [R.Bryant], recovered by SF-A.Davis at SEA 41. A.Davis to SEA 41 for no gain (L.Tatupu).
(scripted#14)2nd and 14 at SEA 41 F.Gore up the middle to SEA 38 for 3 yards (J.Siavii).
3rd and 6 at SEA 33 (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short right to V.Davis to SEA 28 for 5 yards (J.Babineaux, L.Tatupu).
Timeout #3 by SF at 09:26.
4th and 1 at SEA 28 (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short left to M.Crabtree pushed ob at SEA 19 for 9 yards (J.Babineaux).
1st and 10 at SEA 19 Del.Walker right end pushed ob at SEA 9 for 10 yards (D.Hawthorne). Official measurement.
1st and 9 at SEA 9 A.Smith pass short right to Del.Walker to SEA 3 for 6 yards (L.Tatupu).
2nd and 3 at SEA 3 F.Gore left guard to SEA 2 for 1 yard (E.Thomas, C.Clemons).
3rd and 2 at SEA 2 M.Norris up the middle to SEA 1 for 1 yard (L.Tatupu; C.Clemons).
4th and 6 at SEA 6 J.Nedney 23 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Jennings, Holder-A.Lee. 6 0
J.Nedney kicks 56 yards from SF 30 to SEA 14. L.Washington to SEA 31 for 17 yards (P.Adams, R.Jean Francois). PENALTY on SF, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 31.
DRIVE TOTALS: SF 6, SEA 0, 9 plays, 34 yards, 5:48 elapsed


San Francisco 49ers at 2:26 SFO SEA
(scripted#15)1st and 10 at SF 20 (Shotgun) F.Gore right guard to SF 27 for 7 yards (L.Milloy). PENALTY on SF-J.Morgan, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at SF 20 - No Play.

15 scripted plays done

1st and 20 at SF 10 (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short left to M.Crabtree to SF 13 for 3 yards (M.Trufant) [A.Curry].
Timeout #1 by SEA at 01:53.
2nd and 17 at SF 13 (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short middle to V.Davis to SF 25 for 12 yards (L.Tatupu, J.Babineaux) [C.Clemons].
Timeout #2 by SEA at 01:45.
3rd and 5 at SF 25 (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short middle intended for M.Crabtree INTERCEPTED by J.Babineaux at SF 33. J.Babineaux to SF 13 for 20 yards (A.Davis).
DRIVE TOTALS: SF 6, SEA 7, 2 plays, 25 yards, 0:53 elapsed

[ Edited by Tigerlaw on Sep 15, 2010 at 11:15:22 ]