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Coaching Wasn't Nearly as Bad as You Think!

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
The team was totally under prepared coaches and players all deserve the blame. The only player that I thought had a decent game was Patrick Willis, everyone else sucked.


congratulations for being one of the few zoners that actually have a clue. Bad coaching, bad play. THe only thing you left out was overhyped quaterback and rah rah clueless coach. 15 more extra meetings before the years up. Loss next week, loss to the chiefs and atl on the road. 1-4 start equals goodbye alex smith by game 6, i hope.
Oak,

It's over for these guys. It most truly is. They based the entire season on the first game and in their eyes, its the same ol thing. Heck, it really, really was. They are beyond any reasonable explanation. It is black and white. We failed in the first game, displayed the same ineptitude as before, and got embarrassed by a weaker team.

I can see their point though after years of the same ol thing. The bottom line is that all phases of the game failed, period. As they say, it is not how you start, right? We started well and then collapsed. So I believe it is NOT over and we have 15 games to play starting with next week's home opener on the flip side.

If you can't be excited that we get to host MNF against the Saints and Jerry's # will be retired, then go find another team to bash because it doesn't get any better than this opportunity.

Let these guys fester. Let them stew in their anger. They will doubt. They have no reason to cheer in their eyes.

Can you blame them though? I will tell you this, Candlestick will boo the livin' daylights out of Smith quickly if he messes up. Tolerance is at an all time low.
Originally posted by ninertico:
Oak,

It's over for these guys. It most truly is. They based the entire season on the first game and in their eyes, its the same ol thing. Heck, it really, really was. They are beyond any reasonable explanation. It is black and white. We failed in the first game, displayed the same ineptitude as before, and got embarrassed by a weaker team.

I can see their point though after years of the same ol thing. The bottom line is that all phases of the game failed, period. As they say, it is not how you start, right? We started well and then collapsed. So I believe it is NOT over and we have 15 games to play starting with next week's home opener on the flip side.

If you can't be excited that we get to host MNF against the Saints and Jerry's # will be retired, then go find another team to bash because it doesn't get any better than this opportunity.

Let these guys fester. Let them stew in their anger. They will doubt. They have no reason to cheer in their eyes.

Can you blame them though? I will tell you this, Candlestick will boo the livin' daylights out of Smith quickly if he messes up. Tolerance is at an all time low.



well said. good post all the way around, actually.
  • fly15
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,225
Originally posted by whatawegot:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
The team was totally under prepared coaches and players all deserve the blame. The only player that I thought had a decent game was Patrick Willis, everyone else sucked.


congratulations for being one of the few zoners that actually have a clue. Bad coaching, bad play. THe only thing you left out was overhyped quaterback and rah rah clueless coach. 15 more extra meetings before the years up. Loss next week, loss to the chiefs and atl on the road. 1-4 start equals goodbye alex smith by game 6, i hope.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

I hear what you are saying, but let me point out a couple of things.

This isn't madden. You go in with a specific game plan on how you want to execute. Smith started out strong, completing something like 11/13 passes. But as I pointed out in the OP, they just couldn't finish it off even when they had it in the bag.

You can't totally blame our HC for sticking with what should be our bread and butter offense. This is what they practice. This is what they expect to execute. Should we go into Spread offense the first sign of trouble? Where is the confidence in what we are doing? I think they wanted to see more out of Alex from under center. Alas, he never was able to get out of first gear and lead the team from under center. If you looked at his eyes he never seemed to be looking beyond 10 yards so the Hawks stacked the box and we where doomed.

Ted Ginn got injured in the game, so that left us with Morgan, Crab and Zig. I think I would like Walker over Zig (Actually over Morgan). The only burner is Davis, but neither you nor I know how many WR/TE where open. You can't make the assumption it was because we had a 2 WR set, especially when we use our TE as WRs.

Something no one else points out. We dont have any real game film on Carol. Not to mention he aquired some of our players/staff literally a week before the game. I wouldn't doubt if a disgruntled Balmer game him our defensive play book.

If you go back and read my in game posts, I was very frustrated with some of the play calling even when moving the ball so in some ways I agree with you. But, I think we lost this game primarily through the lack on execution on the players part.

Oh really? This isn't Madden? Don't insult me like that please we're having the first intelligent football argument I've been involved in in Ninertalk.

Number 1 -- I realize that Alex Smith started out strong and I completely agree that that is what is practiced, etc. But if the gameplan fails you're trying to tell me that the coach should continue to do so? As if suddenly it will work? I'm talking about we're down 22 our offense has looked like s**t for an entire quarter and half. It's time to change. It's time to try and spread out the defense. When did we run the ball with more than 2 WRs? I didn't keep count but I'd say it was 0 (unless it was a draw). I said that I agreed that the players were terrible in execution, but I fully blame the HC/OC for not attempting to spread out the field and throw the ball. Our factual evidence from last year shows that Alex is pretty good out of shotgun, and we needed a spark. What better way?? But you're saying we should just continue to grind out the same gameplan? To me, that is absolutely ludicrous.

Number 2 -- I know that Ted Ginn was injured. In the, what, 4th quarter? He saw the field about 10 times before that. How do we make Seattle respect the deep threat if he NEVER goes on the field? Even as a decoy to back off the safeties.. it opens up underneath routes AND can have a positive effect on the running game.

Number 3 -- I obviously know that we run our TEs as WRs. But if we get 4 WRs out there, they have to spread out their CBs. This opens up the running game as well. With 4 WR, there are not as good as CBs on the field and we can use that to our advantage. Football is a game of match-ups, and I feel like our coaching staff does not gameplan for this very well.

In the end, I agree that execution was a large problem. The biggest maybe. But that does not take away from the fact that we didn't mix it up. Ever. If you don't mix up against professionals, it's not going to work. The same running play 15 times? The same formation almost every time -- whether it be run or pass -- can compact their defense and make it easier to defend. No new personnel means no new thinking for the defensive players. I mean how easy is that? To not worry about something because hell, we've seen the same 11 players for 75% of the snaps... That's a good gameplan?! I agree with you about the execution, but the coaching was just awful.

I apologize for the Madden comment.

What you say makes sense, but I can also see why the coaching staff stuck with something that didn't work for so long. They really where trying to press the issue that they wanted their team to execute their game plan. If we went right back into the shotgun offense it's almost an admission that the whole offseason was a flop (and maybe it was). Clearly, there is pride involved in the decision to stay with the game plan.

Anyways, hopefully we can make the playoffs, but we will never win a Superbowl with this coaching staff. I can promise you that.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.

The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.

Oakland-Niner,

Bud, I think you just want to be controversial here for the sake of controversy.

Let's just use one of your examples here:


Quote:
It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

So tell me honestly: Would you ask a FB that's not accustomed to catching the ball, nor is as quick or fast relative to not, one but two backs on your team to be the recipient of a critical, go-ahead touchdown?

Seriously. I would like to hear you argue why Norris is a better option than Gore - or why Norris is a better option than Westbrook. I'd like to hear why attempting a pass to Vernon Davis who tied TEs in TD catches in a season. If you can logically and coherently convince me of that, than I buy the rest of your argument. If not, it's a complete logical fail here.

Take a shot.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by chico49erfan:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

I hear what you are saying, but let me point out a couple of things.

This isn't madden. You go in with a specific game plan on how you want to execute. Smith started out strong, completing something like 11/13 passes. But as I pointed out in the OP, they just couldn't finish it off even when they had it in the bag.

You can't totally blame our HC for sticking with what should be our bread and butter offense. This is what they practice. This is what they expect to execute. Should we go into Spread offense the first sign of trouble? Where is the confidence in what we are doing? I think they wanted to see more out of Alex from under center. Alas, he never was able to get out of first gear and lead the team from under center. If you looked at his eyes he never seemed to be looking beyond 10 yards so the Hawks stacked the box and we where doomed.

Ted Ginn got injured in the game, so that left us with Morgan, Crab and Zig. I think I would like Walker over Zig (Actually over Morgan). The only burner is Davis, but neither you nor I know how many WR/TE where open. You can't make the assumption it was because we had a 2 WR set, especially when we use our TE as WRs.

Something no one else points out. We dont have any real game film on Carol. Not to mention he aquired some of our players/staff literally a week before the game. I wouldn't doubt if a disgruntled Balmer game him our defensive play book.

If you go back and read my in game posts, I was very frustrated with some of the play calling even when moving the ball so in some ways I agree with you. But, I think we lost this game primarily through the lack on execution on the players part.

Oh really? This isn't Madden? Don't insult me like that please we're having the first intelligent football argument I've been involved in in Ninertalk.

Number 1 -- I realize that Alex Smith started out strong and I completely agree that that is what is practiced, etc. But if the gameplan fails you're trying to tell me that the coach should continue to do so? As if suddenly it will work? I'm talking about we're down 22 our offense has looked like s**t for an entire quarter and half. It's time to change. It's time to try and spread out the defense. When did we run the ball with more than 2 WRs? I didn't keep count but I'd say it was 0 (unless it was a draw). I said that I agreed that the players were terrible in execution, but I fully blame the HC/OC for not attempting to spread out the field and throw the ball. Our factual evidence from last year shows that Alex is pretty good out of shotgun, and we needed a spark. What better way?? But you're saying we should just continue to grind out the same gameplan? To me, that is absolutely ludicrous.

Number 2 -- I know that Ted Ginn was injured. In the, what, 4th quarter? He saw the field about 10 times before that. How do we make Seattle respect the deep threat if he NEVER goes on the field? Even as a decoy to back off the safeties.. it opens up underneath routes AND can have a positive effect on the running game.

Number 3 -- I obviously know that we run our TEs as WRs. But if we get 4 WRs out there, they have to spread out their CBs. This opens up the running game as well. With 4 WR, there are not as good as CBs on the field and we can use that to our advantage. Football is a game of match-ups, and I feel like our coaching staff does not gameplan for this very well.

In the end, I agree that execution was a large problem. The biggest maybe. But that does not take away from the fact that we didn't mix it up. Ever. If you don't mix up against professionals, it's not going to work. The same running play 15 times? The same formation almost every time -- whether it be run or pass -- can compact their defense and make it easier to defend. No new personnel means no new thinking for the defensive players. I mean how easy is that? To not worry about something because hell, we've seen the same 11 players for 75% of the snaps... That's a good gameplan?! I agree with you about the execution, but the coaching was just awful.

I apologize for the Madden comment.

What you say makes sense, but I can also see why the coaching staff stuck with something that didn't work for so long. They really where trying to press the issue that they wanted their team to execute their game plan. If we went right back into the shotgun offense it's almost an admission that the whole offseason was a flop (and maybe it was). Clearly, there is pride involved in the decision to stay with the game plan.

Anyways, hopefully we can make the playoffs, but we will never win a Superbowl with this coaching staff. I can promise you that.

No hard feelings about the Madden thing. I think your stance about the stubbornness and worrying about the whole offseason being a flop is the main problem of our entire coaching staff. Pride and what "should be" is NOT how to win. It is adjusting what is wrong and our current staff makes TERRIBLE adjustments, if any at all. Mike Singletary needs to wake the f**k up. And the bolded statement, I most definitely agree with you.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.

The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.

I have been willing to give Sing the time to grow into the job, but I ask myself, "Where is the growth?" There is plenty of room for it, but where is it? Things look exactly as they did last season.

Predictable offense, mismanagement of the play clock, a complete lack of effective half time adjustments, failure to use players to their strengths, and on and on.

I wonder, if Gruden or Cowher were HC, would the Seattle game have been much different? I think so.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.

The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.

Oakland-Niner,

Bud, I think you just want to be controversial here for the sake of controversy.Let's just use one of your examples here:


Quote:
It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

So tell me honestly: Would you ask a FB that's not accustomed to catching the ball, nor is as quick or fast relative to not, one but two backs on your team to be the recipient of a critical, go-ahead touchdown?

Seriously. I would like to hear you argue why Norris is a better option than Gore - or why Norris is a better option than Westbrook. I'd like to hear why attempting a pass to Vernon Davis who tied TEs in TD catches in a season. If you can logically and coherently convince me of that, than I buy the rest of your argument. If not, it's a complete logical fail here.

Take a shot.

So did that comment come with a pat on the head?

Well lets see, where should I start......

If you expect me to argue that Norris is a better runner than Gore, you are barking up the wrong tree. Gore is clearly a much better player than Norris, but guess what, the defense knows that and is waiting for it. What where Gores stats at the end of the game again? Oh yeah, 17 carries for 38 yards...That means he was stuffed multipul times at the line of scrimmage. But you would of rather handed him the ball? Besides, you of all people should no that Gore has never really been a very good goal line back.

That brings us to Davis. He is a great weapon. As you pointed out he had 13 Tds. What you failed to mentioned unfortantly is that 9 of those TDs came from that one deep post play they loved to run last year. Not to mention he also dropped a very easy goal line game winning TD last year, I think that was against the Seahawks. And again, how many eyes do you think where on Davis?

As far as Westbrook is concerned, doesn't he have a hamstring issue? And if they did sub him in for one play do you really think they would have been waiting for the old Jimmy Raye up the gut run by Gore? I doubt he would of been allowed to run free like Norris. The whole reason the play worked so well was because it had the appearance of "business as usual."

I stand by my words. Norris is not a bad option. He has caught a few passes in his time. He didn't run the perfect route, but most NFL QB would of completed it to him. Smith should have thrown it directly to Norris. Instead, he added extra pressure by lobbing the ball in the air and letting it hang. Once your FB is turned around you should throw a f**kIN rainbow ball. Period.

As for Crabtree, he and Smith had zero chemistry all game.

Is that good enough for you, BUD...
Originally posted by eastie:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.

The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.

I have been willing to give Sing the time to grow into the job, but I ask myself, "Where is the growth?" There is plenty of room for it, but where is it? Things look exactly as they did last season.

Predictable offense, mismanagement of the play clock, a complete lack of effective half time adjustments, failure to use players to their strengths, and on and on.

I wonder, if Gruden or Cowher were HC, would the Seattle game have been much different? I think so.

Just to repeat myself and what is in the OP, the coaching wasn't good, but the players lost the game. They had chances and blew it. If they don't make a number of those mistakes I listed we probably win that game.

Maybe I didn't choose the best title. It should probably be something like, "we lost this game on execution."
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.

The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.

Oakland-Niner,

Bud, I think you just want to be controversial here for the sake of controversy.Let's just use one of your examples here:


Quote:
It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

So tell me honestly: Would you ask a FB that's not accustomed to catching the ball, nor is as quick or fast relative to not, one but two backs on your team to be the recipient of a critical, go-ahead touchdown?

Seriously. I would like to hear you argue why Norris is a better option than Gore - or why Norris is a better option than Westbrook. I'd like to hear why attempting a pass to Vernon Davis who tied TEs in TD catches in a season. If you can logically and coherently convince me of that, than I buy the rest of your argument. If not, it's a complete logical fail here.

Take a shot.

So did that comment come with a pat on the head?

Well lets see, where should I start......

If you expect me to argue that Norris is a better runner than Gore, you are barking up the wrong tree. Gore is clearly a much better player than Norris, but guess what, the defense knows that and is waiting for it. What where Gores stats at the end of the game again? Oh yeah, 17 carries for 38 yards...That means he was stuffed multipul times at the line of scrimmage. But you would of rather handed him the ball? Besides, you of all people should no that Gore has never really been a very good goal line back.

That brings us to Davis. He is a great weapon. As you pointed out he had 13 Tds. What you failed to mentioned unfortantly is that 9 of those TDs came from that one deep post play they loved to run last year. Not to mention he also dropped a very easy goal line game winning TD last year, I think that was against the Seahawks. And again, how many eyes do you think where on Davis?

As far as Westbrook is concerned, doesn't he have a hamstring issue? And if they did sub him in for one play do you really think they would have been waiting for the old Jimmy Raye up the gut run by Gore? I doubt he would of been allowed to run free like Norris. The whole reason the play worked so well was because it had the appearance of "business as usual."

I stand by my words. Norris is not a bad option. He has caught a few passes in his time. He didn't run the perfect route, but most NFL QB would of completed it to him. Smith should have thrown it directly to Norris. Instead, he added extra pressure by lobbing the ball in the air and letting it hang. Once your FB is turned around you should throw a f**kIN rainbow ball. Period.

As for Crabtree, he and Smith had zero chemistry all game.

Is that good enough for you, BUD...

Wow. Let's try putting Westbrook AND Gore in the backfield at the goal line instead of Norris. Give the defense something else to worry about. Maybe even loosen up the coverage on the tight end or somebody else that's used to CATCHING the dam ball.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by whatawegot:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.

The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.



Forget it dude. Another clueless zoner that makes excuses. If its not alex homers its coach sing and jimmy faye homers. UNderstand one thing and one thing only. Coaching is bad on this team THe excuse of the headset was faulty and the calls werent shuttled in quickly enuf was used last year. THey had all off season to work on those "coaching issues". THis team is an embarassment, Welcome to a 1-4 start to the season.

Who is the one team they are going to beat? The way the Chiefs are handling the Chargers tonight they might be 0-5. Arrowhead is LOUD, nearly Seattle loud and that defense is just stuffing SD running game. Sound familiar?
Originally posted by eastie:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.

The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.

Oakland-Niner,

Bud, I think you just want to be controversial here for the sake of controversy.Let's just use one of your examples here:


Quote:
It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

So tell me honestly: Would you ask a FB that's not accustomed to catching the ball, nor is as quick or fast relative to not, one but two backs on your team to be the recipient of a critical, go-ahead touchdown?

Seriously. I would like to hear you argue why Norris is a better option than Gore - or why Norris is a better option than Westbrook. I'd like to hear why attempting a pass to Vernon Davis who tied TEs in TD catches in a season. If you can logically and coherently convince me of that, than I buy the rest of your argument. If not, it's a complete logical fail here.

Take a shot.

So did that comment come with a pat on the head?

Well lets see, where should I start......

If you expect me to argue that Norris is a better runner than Gore, you are barking up the wrong tree. Gore is clearly a much better player than Norris, but guess what, the defense knows that and is waiting for it. What where Gores stats at the end of the game again? Oh yeah, 17 carries for 38 yards...That means he was stuffed multipul times at the line of scrimmage. But you would of rather handed him the ball? Besides, you of all people should no that Gore has never really been a very good goal line back.

That brings us to Davis. He is a great weapon. As you pointed out he had 13 Tds. What you failed to mentioned unfortantly is that 9 of those TDs came from that one deep post play they loved to run last year. Not to mention he also dropped a very easy goal line game winning TD last year, I think that was against the Seahawks. And again, how many eyes do you think where on Davis?

As far as Westbrook is concerned, doesn't he have a hamstring issue? And if they did sub him in for one play do you really think they would have been waiting for the old Jimmy Raye up the gut run by Gore? I doubt he would of been allowed to run free like Norris. The whole reason the play worked so well was because it had the appearance of "business as usual."

I stand by my words. Norris is not a bad option. He has caught a few passes in his time. He didn't run the perfect route, but most NFL QB would of completed it to him. Smith should have thrown it directly to Norris. Instead, he added extra pressure by lobbing the ball in the air and letting it hang. Once your FB is turned around you should throw a f**kIN rainbow ball. Period.

As for Crabtree, he and Smith had zero chemistry all game.

Is that good enough for you, BUD...

Wow. Let's try putting Westbrook AND Gore in the backfield at the goal line instead of Norris. Give the defense something else to worry about. Maybe even loosen up the coverage on the tight end or somebody else that's used to CATCHING the dam ball.

I dont get what the heck you guys are complaining about? Norris was WIDE OPEN! It was a good call. Smith over threw him. It's that simple. All you guys are doing is speculating at the moment. You have no f**kin idea if BW would of had better results as Smith was still throwing the ball and probably has very little chemistry with BW. Smith doesn't know the speed or the sutblety BW moves with. I would rather have him throw to a slow moving target he knows and even that didn't work.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by whatawegot:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.

The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.



Forget it dude. Another clueless zoner that makes excuses. If its not alex homers its coach sing and jimmy faye homers. UNderstand one thing and one thing only. Coaching is bad on this team THe excuse of the headset was faulty and the calls werent shuttled in quickly enuf was used last year. THey had all off season to work on those "coaching issues". THis team is an embarassment, Welcome to a 1-4 start to the season.

Who is the one team they are going to beat? The way the Chiefs are handling the Chargers tonight they might be 0-5. Arrowhead is LOUD, nearly Seattle loud and that defense is just stuffing SD running game. Sound familiar?

my bad. How clueless of me. That is 0-4 and maybe 1-5. A win against phil at home may be in the cards mainly due to the fact alex will be benched before that game. Thats the only reason i give them a chance.
Originally posted by whatawegot:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.

The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.



Forget it dude. Another clueless zoner that makes excuses. If its not alex homers its coach sing and jimmy faye homers. UNderstand one thing and one thing only. Coaching is bad on this team THe excuse of the headset was faulty and the calls werent shuttled in quickly enuf was used last year. THey had all off season to work on those "coaching issues". THis team is an embarassment, Welcome to a 1-4 start to the season.

Troll, Troll, Troll your boat, gentle down the stream....and you know the rest of the song.