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Forget About the Secondary - NT Is Now a HUGE Concern for 2010

  • TIM_
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 30
But the whole premise of "without Franklin the defense will be flawed" is wrong imho.
Franklin is 100% certain to sign his tender and play for the Niners this season. So why all the worry. Just because Franklin is smart enough to know that he doesn't need to come into camp on time and possibly get hurt(in his contract/free agent year),is no reason for anyone to get hysterical and start yelling that the sky is falling.It just shows that Franklin is smart ,as well as physical !(or is that fysical ?)
And besides,Francois is getting much needed practice time he wouldn't be getting if Franklin was there,so it is all working for the good of the team,in the long run.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
I'm sorry but it's very hard to convince me someone who's never started an NFL game is going to come in and play at the same level of someone who's taken nearly every snap for 2 seasons. I know many of you would like to believe that RJF "will be fine" but if that were the case, we wouldn't have franchised Franklin, and other teams wouldn't have franchised their NT or extended them.

It's funny but I can get into endless thread discussions about how we need a #1 WR talent prior to drafting Crabtree, but somehow we don't need #1 NT talent to make a 3-4 defense work. It's not just about weight, it's about experience. Remember what Snyder said last season about working hard and being able to "do the job" he was "competing against" Marvel Smith?

Don't believe the hype. You don't suddenly get a Rolls by ripping off the Honda logo and placing the RR on the front. This is holdout. He has leverage because frankly the 49ers know they need him more than he needs to practice. He's not under contract but it's not about his market value to someone else because we have no legit starter. His holdout is based on his value to the 49ers.

This, IMHO, is the first big gaffe of the Baalke era. You need someone at minimum who can come in and play without their being such a huge drop in experience and productivity. Talk about depth ... we needed it more only second, IMHO to OL this off season.

We'll pay steeply for this one.

Couldn't agree more with your post and the writing in bold, NinerGM. And I believe this is where signing a veteran like Ian Scott to come in and at least be a rotational player, would help.

Worst case scenerio is we move Soap to NT and force Balmer to start LDE. Obviously I would prefer to have Fanklin, but this might be a good thing to get Balmer in the mix.

P.S. Soaps only played in the two gap right? He might go into beast mode if he one gaps.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Aug 1, 2010 at 16:22:13 ]
Originally posted by bret:
Look, the back-ups are never as game-ready as the starters - that's why they're not the starters! But maybe the talent is there for Francois to actually be better. Then again, maybe not!

But before we all go off with "the sky is falling", think about this: in Michael Crabtree, we have a potential #1 receiver for the first time in almost a decade. Morgan is a 3rd receiver with 2nd receiver potential. The rest of our receivers are 4th or 5th receivers we are hoping step up into the 3rd receiver role. What happens if Crabtree goes down? Is our depth really better here than a nose tackle?

And what happens if Gore goes down? Is Glen Coffee really the answer. From Matt Barrow's comments about them shopping him on draft day, it doesn't sound like it. So we're putting our eggs in a 6th round rookie's basket?! That's certainly better than our NT situation, right!?

And what about cornerback: we got torched by every team that had a legitimate deep threat. And we did very little too address this situation. So is that situation really better than nose tackle?

Heck, we don't even know yet if we have a starting caliber quarterback!

And you guys are worried that a back-up (in a position where we need to develop a back-up) is getting some reps! You guys are amazing!

The talent level has been improved. But if we're going to develop as a team, some of those back-ups have to get chances to perform and they have to step up to the opportunity.

This Franklin situation is not ideal, but it's not a curse, either. Of course, best case, he would have been signed, and maybe if we hadn't traded up for Davis we would have used our 4th round pick on a nose tackle, but 4th round nose tackles are rarely ready to start as rookies, so we have what we have. Let's let the pre-season play out and then worry where we are to start the season.

Sorry I don't understand the logic of this post. I'm not suggesting that you have infinite back-ups who can start. My point is we KNEW before the draft this was Franklin's contract year right? We already franchised him BEFORE the draft guaranteeing either he would possibly hold out and try to negotiate a longer deal or we would do something to help mitigate that loss.

I don't know any decent/good 3-4 defense that has someone starting without one NFL start. Not ideal? I think it's a little less than ideal ....

Here's what I'm saying essentially:

In a season where there is so much pressure to make the playoffs, the 49ers will need all of their players to contribute on both offense and defense. Not having one of your better players not practice and prepare with the rest of the team in camp, getting ready for the season is not a positive sign. No, the sky isn't falling but Franklin not showing for camp isn't "all things are great" either.
Originally posted by NinerGM:


Sorry I don't understand the logic of this post. I'm not suggesting that you have infinite back-ups who can start. My point is we KNEW before the draft this was Franklin's contract year right? We already franchised him BEFORE the draft guaranteeing either he would possibly hold out and try to negotiate a longer deal or we would do something to help mitigate that loss.

I don't know any decent/good 3-4 defense that has someone starting without one NFL start. Not ideal? I think it's a little less than ideal ....

Here's what I'm saying essentially:

In a season where there is so much pressure to make the playoffs, the 49ers will need all of their players to contribute on both offense and defense. Not having one of your better players not practice and prepare with the rest of the team in camp, getting ready for the season is not a positive sign. No, the sky isn't falling but Franklin not showing for camp isn't "all things are great" either.


I totally agree. And I'm surprised the 49ers haven't made more of an effort to have real alternatives at the position just in case Franklin does leave after this year. Maybe Ricky Jean works out, but if he doesn't or if he gets hurt, why not have other young options?
Meh, Franklin is gonna take an extended vacation until the final 2 pre-season games since he knows he (of course) has roster security/importance so he can dodge training camp injuries.
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Meh, Franklin is gonna take an extended vacation until the final 2 pre-season games since he knows he (of course) has roster security/importance so he can dodge training camp injuries.

Snake - I do agree with this to an extent.

Singletary prides his unit on being tough, hence the nutcracker drill. If all players could avoid training camp injuries, then let's just extend this option to all players:

49er Training Camp for Rookies and Selected Vets.....

My problem with this approach is that team cohesion is built during camp. Our team can ill afford a slow start this season since the first half will be much, much stronger than the second half of the season:

@Seahawks - 1:15p
Saints - 5:30p
@Chiefs - 10:00a
@Falcons - 10:00a
Eagles - 5:20p

Cheifs won't be a pushover ... the others will be battles.
I'm not worried. I highly doubt he turns down $7 million for one season. This will give us a chance to find out if anyone else has the capability of filling his role.
Originally posted by bret:
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!

I really agree with this remark.

All of our rookies are signed. All of our players are in camp and ready to go. ONE guy for reasons unknown since neither he nor his agent are talking to the team or the media is not.

And this means our season is doomed? Already? We've got a perfect record so far and the season's over because Aubrayo Franklin didn't show up?

I'm sorry, but I really don't think Franklin's absence is a good enough reason to petition the NFL for the 49ers to scrub the season. Nobody feels sorry for us and nobody else cares. NOBODY.

The Jets are boasting they're Super Bowl bound. Oops. Did anyone bother to tell Darrelle Revis because he's holding out and he's a lot better player than Franklin.

The 49ers have sent Julian Peterson, Andre Carter and other potential studs on their way and a few of those moves have come back to bite 'em in the backside, but that's football. No one player wins it all for you and you can't allow not having someone to be the reason you lose it all.

I really hope Franklin stops pouting and signs his tender. But if he doesn't the season still starts with or without him.
Originally posted by Ohio49er:
Originally posted by bret:
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!

I really agree with this remark.

All of our rookies are signed. All of our players are in camp and ready to go. ONE guy for reasons unknown since neither he nor his agent are talking to the team or the media is not.

And this means our season is doomed? Already? We've got a perfect record so far and the season's over because Aubrayo Franklin didn't show up?

I'm sorry, but I really don't think Franklin's absence is a good enough reason to petition the NFL for the 49ers to scrub the season. Nobody feels sorry for us and nobody else cares. NOBODY.

The Jets are boasting they're Super Bowl bound. Oops. Did anyone bother to tell Darrelle Revis because he's holding out and he's a lot better player than Franklin.

The 49ers have sent Julian Peterson, Andre Carter and other potential studs on their way and a few of those moves have come back to bite 'em in the backside, but that's football. No one player wins it all for you and you can't allow not having someone to be the reason you lose it all.

I really hope Franklin stops pouting and signs his tender. But if he doesn't the season still starts with or without him.

Agree 100%

Who needs a probowl caliber NT to man the 3-4 anyway. All he does is plug the middle so our All World Linebacker is free to roam side line to side line. He's hardly the reason we had the fourth or fifth ranked rushing D. Besides, we have 7th round pick, RJF. And dont forget, he would of gone in the 3rd if he didn't have off the field issues...
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
I'm sorry but it's very hard to convince me someone who's never started an NFL game is going to come in and play at the same level of someone who's taken nearly every snap for 2 seasons. I know many of you would like to believe that RJF "will be fine" but if that were the case, we wouldn't have franchised Franklin, and other teams wouldn't have franchised their NT or extended them.

It's funny but I can get into endless thread discussions about how we need a #1 WR talent prior to drafting Crabtree, but somehow we don't need #1 NT talent to make a 3-4 defense work. It's not just about weight, it's about experience. Remember what Snyder said last season about working hard and being able to "do the job" he was "competing against" Marvel Smith?

Don't believe the hype. You don't suddenly get a Rolls by ripping off the Honda logo and placing the RR on the front. This is holdout. He has leverage because frankly the 49ers know they need him more than he needs to practice. He's not under contract but it's not about his market value to someone else because we have no legit starter. His holdout is based on his value to the 49ers.

This, IMHO, is the first big gaffe of the Baalke era. You need someone at minimum who can come in and play without their being such a huge drop in experience and productivity. Talk about depth ... we needed it more only second, IMHO to OL this off season.

We'll pay steeply for this one.

Couldn't agree more with your post and the writing in bold, NinerGM. And I believe this is where signing a veteran like Ian Scott to come in and at least be a rotational player, would help.

Worst case scenerio is we move Soap to NT and force Balmer to start LDE. Obviously I would prefer to have Fanklin, but this might be a good thing to get Balmer in the mix.

P.S. Soaps only played in the two gap right? He might go into beast mode if he one gaps.

So true! People are forgetting that Franklin was pretty much a nobody at this time last season. So for people to be so worried about Soap or RJF stepping in is crazy. Obviously they feel comfortable at this point with the DL as is. Franklin will most likely sign by the start of the season with the young guys getting much needed first team reps until then.
Originally posted by Ohio49er:
Originally posted by bret:
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!

I really agree with this remark.

All of our rookies are signed. All of our players are in camp and ready to go. ONE guy for reasons unknown since neither he nor his agent are talking to the team or the media is not.

And this means our season is doomed? Already? We've got a perfect record so far and the season's over because Aubrayo Franklin didn't show up?

I'm sorry, but I really don't think Franklin's absence is a good enough reason to petition the NFL for the 49ers to scrub the season. Nobody feels sorry for us and nobody else cares. NOBODY.

The Jets are boasting they're Super Bowl bound. Oops. Did anyone bother to tell Darrelle Revis because he's holding out and he's a lot better player than Franklin.

The 49ers have sent Julian Peterson, Andre Carter and other potential studs on their way and a few of those moves have come back to bite 'em in the backside, but that's football. No one player wins it all for you and you can't allow not having someone to be the reason you lose it all.

I really hope Franklin stops pouting and signs his tender. But if he doesn't the season still starts with or without him.

Yes.

And he WILL sign his tender. This is his "contract year" where he's auditioning to all the new 3-4 teams in the league just how good a run-stuffing NT he can be. You cannot do this if you are injured. And since he technically isn't under contract, he doesn't pay the financial consequences by missing camp. So it just proves he is a smart player as well as a good player. And as stated many times before, it allows Jean-Fracious (msp) some playing time and groom the next NT (interim) replacement.
  • bret
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,136
Originally posted by NinerGM:


Here's what I'm saying essentially:

In a season where there is so much pressure to make the playoffs, the 49ers will need all of their players to contribute on both offense and defense. Not having one of your better players not practice and prepare with the rest of the team in camp, getting ready for the season is not a positive sign. No, the sky isn't falling but Franklin not showing for camp isn't "all things are great" either.

And with THAT, I agree!
  • bret
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,136
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


Worst case scenerio is we move Soap to NT and force Balmer to start LDE. Obviously I would prefer to have Fanklin, but this might be a good thing to get Balmer in the mix.

P.S. Soaps only played in the two gap right? He might go into beast mode if he one gaps.

Perhaps you didn't see the Press Democrat report on today's practice: when Sopoaga played nose, they moved Ray McDonald to left end, NOT Balmer! I guess that kind of shows how far down the depth chart Balmer really is!
Rickey-Jean seems to be doing well, Franklin signing reportedly imminent....I think we are gonna be ok.
I hope dude doesn't expect anything near Ngata money.