There are 77 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

McCloughan's fall from grace was his own doing.

We haven't had a successful season under Scott McClueless. How good is he, really? Good riddance. We can hardly do worse.
Originally posted by TDilvr:
We haven't had a successful season under Scott McClueless. How good is he, really? Good riddance. We can hardly do worse.

Donahue?
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
There's some truth 'bout the fact that after five years the niners still are'nt a sexy place to come to an be a coach or player.

Linehan has chosen the Lions last year, some big names have signed with the Lions and that despite the fact that Matt Millen has been the GM there.

It's a problem that starts at the top with the owners but also with the GM who has to create and convince people that the dark days of Donahue are over.

Still that does not seem to be the fact.

Jed also has to show that he's more like Eddie than his father.

In many aspects this is a crucial season.

Qb decision, GM desicion, ownership decision...



I stopped reading after you mentioned that there were "big names" who signed with Matt Millen when he was in Detroit.

Your post is BS. Stop.

-9fA

Tht'ts a typing error.
What I meant to say was.
That despite the fact that Millen has been the GM there ad the fact that the Lions went 0-16, the first year after that and now in the second year players as well as coaches are interested in comming to the Lions.

Obivously something has to drag coaches and players to Detroit, to the "rebuilding since 1954 Lions".

Detroit has made some good moves this season, yes. But it's not because it's all of a sudden an attractive place to play, they're showing the $s.

-9fA
Quote:
You are right. its speculation. but you're also right that its reasonable to assume that the tampering stuff might have been Scot's fault. But how does that mean he wasn't "in the loop"? What DOES that mean? Does that mean he wasn't doing his job? Well, I call BS on that, because if the Niners had cause to fire him, they would just fire him.

Well, speculation is where the fun is! After the fact is established, and 183 sports reporters write about it, it becomes part of the history and we gotta move on to the next thing!

Anyway, yeah, the 49ers DID just fire him.

"Not being in the loop" could even mean physical/mental unresponsiveness. We don't know, and the 49ers aren't saying. All I know is something forced this to come to a head, and not at a time the 49ers would have chosen.
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
people that are having panic attacks because of his departure just you wait when we have a solid draft youll forget about McClueless completly.

upper management knows what they are doing & for one i am glad he is out
GOOD RIDDANCE!!!

take a breather & chill out!!!!!

Same here Im glad he is out.

Im actually looking forward to the draft after the first round now.

Agreed. McC was a pretty good scout, but was NOT a good GM.



Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by bigtony2tone:
One last time: McCloughan isn't/wasn't the only voice in the personnel department. Not much (if anything) will change going into the draft. Calm the hell down.

He was the GM and had final say in draft picks. So he was the voice in the personnel department.

I don't understand what the hell you're worried about. The man did NOT do a great job drafting for us. Patrick Willis and Michael Crabtree were no-brainers. Don't fool yourself. Frank Gore was the only major hit he made by taking a chance on someone we weren't expected to take. VD panned out last year, but everyone already knew we were likely to select him so it's not like he made some sort of Bill Walsh-like find.

We are a mediocre team after all the moves he's made. He's too passive and never takes chances on players that could get us over the hump. You're acting like we just lost the best GM in the league. PLEASE. People have been wanting him gone for a couple years now.
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by TDilvr:
We haven't had a successful season under Scott McClueless. How good is he, really? Good riddance. We can hardly do worse.

Donahue?

Well sure but he did have a couple of winning seasons to hang his hat on. Scoty has zero.

Let's be real here people. If you produced squat 5 years in a row you'd be unemployed. None of us would even be allowed to not produce for 5 years in a row.

This is about as devastating as losing Nolan or Rashaun Woods. And just like we did with those other two we are only left to wonder "How in the hell did he get here in the first place?"

Again, good riddance. We can hardly do worse.
Originally posted by TDilvr:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by TDilvr:
We haven't had a successful season under Scott McClueless. How good is he, really? Good riddance. We can hardly do worse.

Donahue?

Well sure but he did have a couple of winning seasons to hang his hat on. Scoty has zero.

Let's be real here people. If you produced squat 5 years in a row you'd be unemployed. None of us would even be allowed to not produce for 5 years in a row.

This is about as devastating as losing Nolan or Rashaun Woods. And just like we did with those other two we are only left to wonder "How in the hell did he get here in the first place?"

Again, good riddance. We can hardly do worse.

Really?

A bigger role for Marathe?
More power for Singletary?

IMO we can, and probably will end up with worse.
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by bigtony2tone:
One last time: McCloughan isn't/wasn't the only voice in the personnel department. Not much (if anything) will change going into the draft. Calm the hell down.

He was the GM and had final say in draft picks. So he was the voice in the personnel department.

I don't understand what the hell you're worried about. The man did NOT do a great job drafting for us. Patrick Willis and Michael Crabtree were no-brainers. Don't fool yourself. Frank Gore was the only major hit he made by taking a chance on someone we weren't expected to take. VD panned out last year, but everyone already knew we were likely to select him so it's not like he made some sort of Bill Walsh-like find.

We are a mediocre team after all the moves he's made. He's too passive and never takes chances on players that could get us over the hump. You're acting like we just lost the best GM in the league. PLEASE. People have been wanting him gone for a couple years now.

A-freaking-men. Boy, Baas and Snyder are a couple of real finds. 2 linemen drafted where solid lineman are easily found in rounds 2 and 3 and 5 years into their career neither are locks to be starters in their 6th year. "Maybe this will be the year they finally put it all together."

Don't get me started on Chilo's "beast mode". Pure fanboyism at it's finest.

Staley, well I keep hearing he's going to be awesome or that he's the best lineman on the team and to be perfectly honest, I think scrub Sims played well enough last year at LT that I'm not 100% positive that inserting Staley back into the lineup is going to be an upgrade. Sims and Heitman seemed to really be the only bright spots on our O-line last season.

Which of his projects have turned out? Has Robinson developed into a gotta have him RB? In that same draft, who was our 3rd round munchkin that was supposed to be a return specialist and be another Wess Welker in the passing game? Williams? Where is he?

Manny Lawson has good coverage skills but he is not an elite pass rusher and opposing teams seemed to figure out how to prevent him from sealing off the edges as the season wore on last year. We still do not have a pass rusher.

The OC job and the QB position has been a revolving door under his watch.

Are we really sure we wanna care that he's gone now?

Na na na na, Na na na na, Hey hey hey, GOODBYE.
Originally posted by oregondave:
Originally posted by TDilvr:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by TDilvr:
We haven't had a successful season under Scott McClueless. How good is he, really? Good riddance. We can hardly do worse.

Donahue?

Well sure but he did have a couple of winning seasons to hang his hat on. Scoty has zero.

Let's be real here people. If you produced squat 5 years in a row you'd be unemployed. None of us would even be allowed to not produce for 5 years in a row.

This is about as devastating as losing Nolan or Rashaun Woods. And just like we did with those other two we are only left to wonder "How in the hell did he get here in the first place?"

Again, good riddance. We can hardly do worse.

Really?

A bigger role for Marathe?
More power for Singletary?

IMO we can, and probably will end up with worse.

Marathe has actually done his job well over the past few years. how he does in his expanded role remains to be seen.

And really, what's the difference between 8-8, 7-9 or 2-14 other than draft position? None of those records get's you to the playoffs. A losing season is a losing season. "Hey at least we're not as bad as the Lions"? How does that hit you? Not as well as "We're going to the playoffs again!" I have been a fan since 81 and I know the damn difference.

Good riddance.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by 9eridiot:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by WINiner:
Originally posted by 9eridiot:
Originally posted by WINiner:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
It's just the Yorks being stupid and self destructing the team like they always do. Only the Yorks could come up with a plan to get rid of the GM 5 weeks before the draft with no replacement on hand. They could have done it at the very beginning of the offseason and may have been able to land the likes of Holmgren or Shannahan in the role if they were willing to pay for it. But they aren't willing to pay for it and everything the Yorks do is reactionary and spur of the moment with no forward planning. It's how the roll. Destroy the team and figure out the consequences later. It's how they have rolled for a decade.

You don't get it. They are not looking to bring someone from outside the organization in to replace Scott. THAT'S why it doesn't matter that he was canned 5 weeks before the draft. The Niners are going to make Baalk, Gamble, or Marathe GM and the team will continue forward with little change in the short term.

This in my opinion is not at all reactionary or spur of the moment, but a culmination of discretions that led to the change. I don't think for a moment that the management had any interest at all in GM candidates outside the team earlier this off-season. I think if anything, the team waited too long.

... and Balke it is !

True too, the team had no interest in GM candidates; but, more importantly, no GM candidates had any interest in the Niners. Why would a strong GM accept the restrictive conditions set by York?

Only a tool would do it ... and Balke it is !

Exactly what restrictive conditions are you speaking of?

WIN - totally agree with your perspective. Contrary to what people think here, I don't think the Yorks are reactionary - I think they take too long to make decisions. Case in point: the stadium. The Yorks are not football people and run their business like any corporation - conservatively. They initially brought that approach. That created the perfect situation that was resistant to change; firing Mooch took too long - he had long since lost the team. Firing of Donahue and Erickson took too long. Firing of Mike Nolan took too long. And if they thought McCloughan wasn't doing a good job. McCloughan said himself it was a longstanding issue. So obviously there was something going on for a while. Again, it took too long. If anything, the 49ers need an active owner - maybe Jed - who can make a good hire. It doesn't take a genius to make a great hire, it just needs to be an educated/smart hire. If anything the 49ers are still suffering from mistakes made years ago that are coming to light now.

Winner,

York set restrictive conditions in place when he took over. As NinerGM alludes, "the 49ers were still suffering from mistakes made years ago". I would argue that these prior mistakes, which led to 5 Super Bowl Championships, weren't mistakes at all - but, serendipitous actions which led to an organizational value on par with the f**king cowboys.

York, though, without a background or interest in football, came to the organization with one narrow-minded viewpoint toward the business that did not understand the complexities of a major sports franchise.

In so doing, he gutted the administrative complex that Eddie D established. The approach was an overall pragmatic restriction of expenitures - from the GM to the punter.

Eddie D wanted to win. Daddy York wants to make sure he makes money. It's a simple difference. Hopefully Sing can take the competitive squad that York allows purchased and win a division title for us fans.

The mistakes I'm alluding to are the mistakes the Yorks made in hiring DE and giving a rookie coach like Mike Nolan complete control over the rebuilding of an organization. McCloughan was a part of the Nolan regime. The point I was attempting to make was that the Yorks may have started out bad, but we've seen an evolution and in no small way. If the 49ers were only interested in money they wouldn't have brought in Jennings, Clements, Smith, and Jones (who I still think is a colossal waste of money).

Thanks GM,
I stand corrected re: past mistakes. My gist was comparing the York vs. Eddie D. 'business 'model'.

As to your point, I agree the Yorks started badly. I also believe York had a strong desire to not follow the path Eddie D laid out. He wanted to chart his own course and have future results unconnected to his brother-in-law.

As far as spending money and bringing in free agents, whether it was through Donohue, Nolan, McCloughan, or now Baalke & Gamble, the Niner GM can only spend money that York allows them to spend.

York's smart enough to realize that there has to be some base level of free agent signings to maintain a competitive product; and, I think that's where you've seen some good free agent signings like Justin and ... ?

But, you can't use the Clements signing as an example since he was forced by minimum cap rules that year to spend money.

What I'd really like to know is if Scot felt any pressure or if there was a strategy in place last year to throw away the #2 in case Crabtree was picked instead of Oher.

It seems clear that York has a pattern of primarily making fiscal rather than football decisions.
[ Edited by 9eridiot on Mar 22, 2010 at 2:24 AM ]
Originally posted by TDilvr:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by bigtony2tone:
One last time: McCloughan isn't/wasn't the only voice in the personnel department. Not much (if anything) will change going into the draft. Calm the hell down.

He was the GM and had final say in draft picks. So he was the voice in the personnel department.

I don't understand what the hell you're worried about. The man did NOT do a great job drafting for us. Patrick Willis and Michael Crabtree were no-brainers. Don't fool yourself. Frank Gore was the only major hit he made by taking a chance on someone we weren't expected to take. VD panned out last year, but everyone already knew we were likely to select him so it's not like he made some sort of Bill Walsh-like find.

We are a mediocre team after all the moves he's made. He's too passive and never takes chances on players that could get us over the hump. You're acting like we just lost the best GM in the league. PLEASE. People have been wanting him gone for a couple years now.

A-freaking-men. Boy, Baas and Snyder are a couple of real finds. 2 linemen drafted where solid lineman are easily found in rounds 2 and 3 and 5 years into their career neither are locks to be starters in their 6th year. "Maybe this will be the year they finally put it all together."

Don't get me started on Chilo's "beast mode". Pure fanboyism at it's finest.

Staley, well I keep hearing he's going to be awesome or that he's the best lineman on the team and to be perfectly honest, I think scrub Sims played well enough last year at LT that I'm not 100% positive that inserting Staley back into the lineup is going to be an upgrade. Sims and Heitman seemed to really be the only bright spots on our O-line last season.

Which of his projects have turned out? Has Robinson developed into a gotta have him RB? In that same draft, who was our 3rd round munchkin that was supposed to be a return specialist and be another Wess Welker in the passing game? Williams? Where is he?

Manny Lawson has good coverage skills but he is not an elite pass rusher and opposing teams seemed to figure out how to prevent him from sealing off the edges as the season wore on last year. We still do not have a pass rusher.

The OC job and the QB position has been a revolving door under his watch.

Are we really sure we wanna care that he's gone now?

Na na na na, Na na na na, Hey hey hey, GOODBYE.

Not to mention what the hell happened to our K/P return game in the middle of the season. Never got an extra capable running back. Never had even a top 20 o-line in the time he was here. Not to mention some of our hirings, that go through him. I was never impressed with McC. Scotty sucked at 1st round picks, and we have 2 this draft. No more gut feelings, or hit and miss, or shrugging our shoulders saying "why?" Lets move on, and see how we look when the draft is over. Baalke can do no worse. McC seems like a good fit for the Raiders.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,057
Originally posted by aiiyiiyiii:
Quote:
You are right. its speculation. but you're also right that its reasonable to assume that the tampering stuff might have been Scot's fault. But how does that mean he wasn't "in the loop"? What DOES that mean? Does that mean he wasn't doing his job? Well, I call BS on that, because if the Niners had cause to fire him, they would just fire him.

Well, speculation is where the fun is! After the fact is established, and 183 sports reporters write about it, it becomes part of the history and we gotta move on to the next thing!

Anyway, yeah, the 49ers DID just fire him.

"Not being in the loop" could even mean physical/mental unresponsiveness. We don't know, and the 49ers aren't saying. All I know is something forced this to come to a head, and not at a time the 49ers would have chosen.

We might never know what this something is.

Moreover, I am not sure that it is important for us to know.

Curosity is great, but the reson for this mess might well be private matter between the two parties.

I guess we will find out soon.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by aiiyiiyiii:
Quote:
You are right. its speculation. but you're also right that its reasonable to assume that the tampering stuff might have been Scot's fault. But how does that mean he wasn't "in the loop"? What DOES that mean? Does that mean he wasn't doing his job? Well, I call BS on that, because if the Niners had cause to fire him, they would just fire him.

Well, speculation is where the fun is! After the fact is established, and 183 sports reporters write about it, it becomes part of the history and we gotta move on to the next thing!

Anyway, yeah, the 49ers DID just fire him.

"Not being in the loop" could even mean physical/mental unresponsiveness. We don't know, and the 49ers aren't saying. All I know is something forced this to come to a head, and not at a time the 49ers would have chosen.

We might never know what this something is.

Moreover, I am not sure that it is important for us to know.

Curosity is great, but the reson for this mess might well be private matter between the two parties.

I guess we will find out soon.

It will only remain private til Scot is officially not part of the team. Then you will she the "unnamed sources" spill the beans. I think he did something that the team and ownership can't take anymore and want him out. Probably one of those things that was the last straw for whatever reason and they want him out.

My thinking was when they said out of the loop was that he was just not answering there calls or would be out of contact for 4 or 5 days during the week when critical decision had to be made. Maybe the team missed out on free agents b/c he was"out of the loop" time will tell
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by aiiyiiyiii:
Quote:
You are right. its speculation. but you're also right that its reasonable to assume that the tampering stuff might have been Scot's fault. But how does that mean he wasn't "in the loop"? What DOES that mean? Does that mean he wasn't doing his job? Well, I call BS on that, because if the Niners had cause to fire him, they would just fire him.

Well, speculation is where the fun is! After the fact is established, and 183 sports reporters write about it, it becomes part of the history and we gotta move on to the next thing!

Anyway, yeah, the 49ers DID just fire him.

"Not being in the loop" could even mean physical/mental unresponsiveness. We don't know, and the 49ers aren't saying. All I know is something forced this to come to a head, and not at a time the 49ers would have chosen.

We might never know what this something is.

Moreover, I am not sure that it is important for us to know.

Curosity is great, but the reson for this mess might well be private matter between the two parties.

I guess we will find out soon.


My guess is we won't find out soon or otherwise. A settlement will be reached. The parties will be precluded from disclosing information as a condition of the agreement.

All we will have is rumor and innuendo.