Move David Baas to center

We are not playing fantasy football here, and you can't project Baas' play at center from six years ago against a guy who is the perennial team captain and rated as the best lineman on this team.

Wasn't Baas award the Bob McKittrick award last year? I know you belittled the award and called it a going away present from the oline. You can't wave Heitmann's awards like a banner and then negate them if Baas wins one.

I don't even know why I even bother to argue in this thread. It is so out of the realm of possibility that it is a non-issue, ranking right up there with a Willis-McKillop controversy.

You can't in any way, shape or form equate Heitmann with willis. Eric is a bad bodied center who's had trouble with injuries and Willlis has made the probowl every year he's been in the league.

Baas was offered a one year tender, like Shawn Merriman and Vincent Jackson. So don't equate that to being a scrub. Besides, 1.2 million is nothing to shake a stick at, Heitmann made 1.4 as base last year.

I know you're a fan of Heitmann and I have no issue with that, but I like David Baas and think he has more potential. He is a massive man, a nice person and a hard worker. He deserves every chance that he gets. I've been fortunate enough to get to sit down with him and have a meal/conversation, so I'm probably as biased as you.

[ Edited by Nuns on Aug 17, 2010 at 11:18:25 ]

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Cast the bust for the Hall of Fame!

David Baas played pretty well against the 24th ranked rush defense in the NFL, headlined by the immortal rotation of Antonio Johnson, Daniel Muir (signed a one year contract this year), Fili Moala (7 career tackles), and bench superstars Marlon Favorite and Mitch King. This is simply one of the greatest colletion of DT's in NFL history.

Now that I can abandon sarcasm, let's get to reality:
1) Baas played a pretty good game. In all sincerity, Congrats to Baas! However, let's be realistic about the level of competition he played against, and how defenses do not throw a lot of wrinkles into preseason games.
2) Players do not simply become "good" overnight, even if some board members pray day and night that it happens. Baas has worked out at center his entire career, and if any of the previous head coaches, offensive coordinators, offensive line coaches, or team scouts on the team thought he was very good at the position, he wouldn't be behind Heitmann on the depth chart.3) The Niners thought so highly of Baas that they gave him a...one year contract. These are the same people who have access to see him play that no one on this board possesses (practices, scrimmages, etc.).
4) One game does not make a career, nor does one practice. A week ago, people were calling for Wragge to replace Baas after Baas could not consistently snap the ball accurately to Smith in practice. Suddenly, he is a star???

The bottom line is that there are a few wishful thinkers on this board, as well as one "genius". These people, in the end, will more than likely be proven wrong. If not, I will come forward and say that I was wrong. The "genius" has been wrong for years now, and can gloat over his one preaseon game. Good for him. You are a one-game preseason genius.

Players do not suddenly emerge overnight to become good. Baas was a player not even in contention for a starting spot at center. Suddenly, he is a star? Let's be realistic. You must think the whole organization is full of idiots. So, enjoy your season in the sun. The reality of Baas' talent to start is going to emerge sometime sooner rather than later, when he has to face real NFL tackles, not soup cans. Enjoy the gloating for now.

Well I can't think of a greater testament to Heitmann's abilities than this. To be able to fend off a bad player on an already crappy line, in a even crappier division speaks volumes about Heitmann's level of play. I can see why he is voted the NFC West's best C year in year out.

[ Edited by Hoovtrain on Aug 17, 2010 at 13:54:48 ]

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I don't even know why I even bother to argue in this thread. It is so out of the realm of possibility that it is a non-issue, ranking right up there with a Willis-McKillop controversy.

Is this real life?

You know what this means right?

It eventually means bye bye to Cody Wallace!

Another McNolan waste of a pick, gone.

This team is improving by the week...

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
I'm just thankful that Baas made me look like a genius. I been on this toot for a long time. I never did understand why Nolan and McCloughan drafted him to be the Center but never put him in reps. At least not enough to get a reasonable idea of what he can do.

This is the one thing that pisses me off the most about the last 5 years. We draft guys to do something and then don't give them the reps they need to show us what they are or are not capable of.

Baas Center
MRob Running Back
Jason Hill Receiver
Balmer hardly got any reps cause we basically had our Starters to begin with.
Miller Fullback

The list is long. These aren't the only guys. And no I don't believe in throwing players to the wolves. But you have to get them reps at the very least otherwise you don't have any business turning in a draft card imho. Shoot Delanie Walker didn't get much in the way of reps when our blocking TE was on the field. Can you imagine how many points were left on the field?

Shoot even guys we DIDN'T draft were brought in to languish. It's excruciatingly painful to contemplate what COULD have been if these guys had just been shown a bit of confidence by the Coaching staff. Freakin Sullivan being one of the main culprits of this.

I hope Sing just lets the reigns go slack and gives this team the freedom they need.

I think they're ready for a Postseason. They're hungry.

And yes I know Balmer was traded. I just hope that he doesn't go JP on us. All I want to know is when is this team going to learn? DO NOT TRADE WITHIN THE DIVISION!

~Ceadder

JP left as a FA

Really? Din't know that. Thanks for letting me know this. I guess we never traded within the Division before sending Balmer to the Sh@tbirds. I guess we should stop picking up their castoffs like Darrel Jackson... oh... wait... we traded for DJack.

My bad I should have been more specific.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So you are downplaying Baas' accomplishments from here on because you don't want him to overshadow Heitmann?

Can't the fans simply appreciate the good from... both?

If Baas does well, I will enjoy it as much as anyone else. I just think it is humorous that one chunk of a preseason game, against a weak DT corps, has got so many people lathered up, and thinking that Baas is the future starter for this team. He isn't, because as I stated before, players do not suddenly become good overnight.

So, let the better man win. However, in the end, there is no competition, just like in camp. A healthy Heitmann is the starter, and Baas the backup.

The only way I can see Baas continue to start is if Rachal or Iupati goes down with injuries or is playing poorly. Heitmann is the unquestioned starter, and leader, on this line, and once he comes back will be inserted in the starting lineup.

I choose to live in the land of reality, and trust that the head coach, OC, OL coaches, and scouts know what they are talking about. That's all.

Usually true, but it is what happened to Franklin. Not saying it happens to Baas, but thought I'd make that point

*Ahem* Vernon Davis? He basically did the same thing.

Oh and btw, EVERY team reporter even mentioned that Baas was drafted to play the Center position. Yeah he played less than 1 year in College at Center. But dude was a co-recipient of an award given to the best Center in the NCAA. I love how that's been marginalized by all the naysayers.

Also cause someone said they don't remember, yes Heitmann played RG before he slid over to Center. He was a damn good Guard then Newberry went down so he slid over to Center for a bit then took over FT when Newberry left and has been there ever since.

But he was NEVER supposed to be there for good. He was a BAND-AID position change and that's why Baas was drafted. And c'mon MadDog you have to admit that our last two Position Coaches were crap. There is a reason why players just never get it. Only we had 5 of them for the most part all from the same unit and we made average Defensive Lines look All Pro.

Part of that was due to the expedited practice schedule a few years back and part of that was cause we cut solid players or let them go or hell look at the guy that went to the Fins a few years back. He was deemed one of our problem children and then he went to Miami and played pretty well there. Does that count as an "overnight" change? Can't remember his name off the top of my head but you know who I'm referring to.

Hell SIMS freakin changed overnight on this team. Dude sucks as a RT. Moved over to LT and held down the position almost as solid as Staley. Only gave up the one sack that I know of and that one was mostly a coverage Sack.

If Baas plays as good as he did against the Colts then I see no reason to change it back to Heitmann. Let Heitmann slide back over and make Chilo a backup Guard. He'll get it soon enough.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Cast the bust for the Hall of Fame!

David Baas played pretty well against the 24th ranked rush defense in the NFL, headlined by the immortal rotation of Antonio Johnson, Daniel Muir (signed a one year contract this year), Fili Moala (7 career tackles), and bench superstars Marlon Favorite and Mitch King. This is simply one of the greatest colletion of DT's in NFL history.

Now that I can abandon sarcasm, let's get to reality:
1) Baas played a pretty good game. In all sincerity, Congrats to Baas! However, let's be realistic about the level of competition he played against, and how defenses do not throw a lot of wrinkles into preseason games.
2) Players do not simply become "good" overnight, even if some board members pray day and night that it happens. Baas has worked out at center his entire career, and if any of the previous head coaches, offensive coordinators, offensive line coaches, or team scouts on the team thought he was very good at the position, he wouldn't be behind Heitmann on the depth chart.3) The Niners thought so highly of Baas that they gave him a...one year contract. These are the same people who have access to see him play that no one on this board possesses (practices, scrimmages, etc.).
4) One game does not make a career, nor does one practice. A week ago, people were calling for Wragge to replace Baas after Baas could not consistently snap the ball accurately to Smith in practice. Suddenly, he is a star???

The bottom line is that there are a few wishful thinkers on this board, as well as one "genius". These people, in the end, will more than likely be proven wrong. If not, I will come forward and say that I was wrong. The "genius" has been wrong for years now, and can gloat over his one preaseon game. Good for him. You are a one-game preseason genius.

Players do not suddenly emerge overnight to become good. Baas was a player not even in contention for a starting spot at center. Suddenly, he is a star? Let's be realistic. You must think the whole organization is full of idiots. So, enjoy your season in the sun. The reality of Baas' talent to start is going to emerge sometime sooner rather than later, when he has to face real NFL tackles, not soup cans. Enjoy the gloating for now.

Well I can't think of a greater testament to Heitmann's abilities than this. To be able to fend off a bad player on an already crappy line, in a even crappier division speaks volumes about Heitmann's level of play. I can see why he is voted the NFC West's best C year in year out.

Yeah, that's my point too. We should just have a poll...

Baas sucks less!!! 50 %
Heitmann sucks less!! 50 %

Now go vote

Yep, it's a head-scratcher why they haven't given Baas serious reps at C 'til now. I think he's just more naturally suited to it over OG. He can be a beast at that position...given the proper coaching and reps. Heitmann's injury just may've extended his Niner career. It should also hasten the departure of Wallace...

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Yep, it's a head-scratcher why they haven't given Baas serious reps at C 'til now. I think he's just more naturally suited to it over OG. He can be a beast at that position...given the proper coaching and reps. Heitmann's injury just may've extended his Niner career. It should also hasten the departure of Wallace...

I don't see it as a head scratcher. Baas has had plenty of years (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010) to show that he is the starting center for this team. For years in camp, he has practiced at center, in front of multiple head coaches, multiple offensive coordinators, multiple offensive line coaches. He is simply inferior to Heitmann at center, and inferior to Iupati at guard. Otherwise, we would have seen Baas as a starter at center at some point.

Baas is getting his chance to start right now. But, let's be realistic. He is holding the spot down until Heitmann returns. The best he can do is impress the team enough to replace Rachal or Iupati if they start the season slowly.

That a handful of Webzone board members believe they are so much more intelligent than all these coaches and scouts for all these years is either laughable or insanely arrogant.

That is why I respond. I am not prepared to call all of these coaches idiots for their naivity, especially when they daily see each player in the trenches, something that none of us have access to.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Yep, it's a head-scratcher why they haven't given Baas serious reps at C 'til now. I think he's just more naturally suited to it over OG. He can be a beast at that position...given the proper coaching and reps. Heitmann's injury just may've extended his Niner career. It should also hasten the departure of Wallace...

I don't see it as a head scratcher. Baas has had plenty of years (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010) to show that he is the starting center for this team. For years in camp, he has practiced at center, in front of multiple head coaches, multiple offensive coordinators, multiple offensive line coaches. He is simply inferior to Heitmann at center, and inferior to Iupati at guard. Otherwise, we would have seen Baas as a starter at center at some point.

Baas is getting his chance to start right now. But, let's be realistic. He is holding the spot down until Heitmann returns. The best he can do is impress the team enough to replace Rachal or Iupati if they start the season slowly.

That a handful of Webzone board members believe they are so much more intelligent than all these coaches and scouts for all these years is either laughable or insanely arrogant.

That is why I respond. I am not prepared to call all of these coaches idiots for their naivity, especially when they daily see each player in the trenches, something that none of us have access to.

So you are saying there is absolutely no chance that Baas holds on to the job even when Heitmann returns? Not that I disagree, you just seem quite certain of yourself.
You say that a handful of these members believe they are so much more intelligent than the coaches and scouts, yet I recall you having some pretty harsh opinions about the Niners bringing Brooks aboard last year as well as various draft picks throughout the years. It's almost as if you believed you knew more than the niner coaching staff, scouts and front office. But that would just be insanely arrogant, right?

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Yep, it's a head-scratcher why they haven't given Baas serious reps at C 'til now. I think he's just more naturally suited to it over OG. He can be a beast at that position...given the proper coaching and reps. Heitmann's injury just may've extended his Niner career. It should also hasten the departure of Wallace...

I don't see it as a head scratcher. Baas has had plenty of years (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010) to show that he is the starting center for this team. For years in camp, he has practiced at center, in front of multiple head coaches, multiple offensive coordinators, multiple offensive line coaches. He is simply inferior to Heitmann at center, and inferior to Iupati at guard. Otherwise, we would have seen Baas as a starter at center at some point.

Baas is getting his chance to start right now. But, let's be realistic. He is holding the spot down until Heitmann returns. The best he can do is impress the team enough to replace Rachal or Iupati if they start the season slowly.

That a handful of Webzone board members believe they are so much more intelligent than all these coaches and scouts for all these years is either laughable or insanely arrogant.

That is why I respond. I am not prepared to call all of these coaches idiots for their naivity, especially when they daily see each player in the trenches, something that none of us have access to.

Baas was our starting guard last year and did not give up a sack. Let's just make that clear up front as a fact.

If 3 identical Eric Heitmann's compete for a job at center, only one of them will win it. Does this mean the other identical copies suck? No, they probably happened to do slightly worse as a function of circumstance.

There are endless examples of players coming out of nowhere due to circumstance/luck. Tom Brady was a backup. The coaches were so brilliant, they saw him as an inferior player to the eternally overrated Bledsoe. Same with Kurt Warner, he was not as good a player as Green in the eyes of the super expert coaches who see their players practice every day.
How about a non-quarterback? Derrick Deese? He was a backup for years until he got his opportunity and then he became an All-Pro left tackle.

Some players take time to develop, some players get injured in camp (David Baas), some players are more natural at one position than another (Barry Sims, Eric Heitmann, (David Baas?)), and some players play well in games, but practice average.

David Baas was always a solid player who needed time to develop. He needed extra time because he was injured in most of his first couple seasons. Also, he didn't go to Stanford like Heitmann, so perhaps he can't pick up information as quickly. Does it mean he is stupid? Does it mean he sucks? No.

David Baas had his strongest college season at center. Its why he went high in the draft.

David Baas and Eric Heitmann are different types of players.
Who is the better player, Larry Bird or Shaquille O'Neil? It is hard to answer that question because both players are so DIFFERENT that comparing them is kind of silly.
Baas is mauler, Heitmann is smart with good feet. They are different players. Just because Baas isn't as good at what Heitmann can do doesn't mean he is a bad player; and vice versa.

And who are the "experts" you speak of? The media? The commentators? You better be kidding. Former players? Former players are just fans, and nothing more. A great soldier does not make a great general. Their insight is rarely thought provoking.

And here is the nail in the coffin. You are not a professional scout. Yet your draft predictions OUTPERFORM those who are paid to do these things for a living. YOU proved it yourself. Pro Scouts do not walk on water, and sometimes stumble on flat ground when compared to an NFL enthusiast such as yourself.
By having such success against pro-scouts, you undermine your own point when it comes to their expertise and the validity of it, ergo the so-called "arrogance" of those who suppose to claim a superior argumentative position over a pro-scout is fallacious on its face.
Since you have indeed claimed to make mistakes in the past, I argue that you are making another mistake in regards to David Baas's ability.

Just like in the NFL draft, the proof is in the pudding.
The Williams Wall will be the ultimate test for David Baas and company.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Yep, it's a head-scratcher why they haven't given Baas serious reps at C 'til now. I think he's just more naturally suited to it over OG. He can be a beast at that position...given the proper coaching and reps. Heitmann's injury just may've extended his Niner career. It should also hasten the departure of Wallace...

I don't see it as a head scratcher. Baas has had plenty of years (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010) to show that he is the starting center for this team. For years in camp, he has practiced at center, in front of multiple head coaches, multiple offensive coordinators, multiple offensive line coaches. He is simply inferior to Heitmann at center, and inferior to Iupati at guard. Otherwise, we would have seen Baas as a starter at center at some point.

Baas is getting his chance to start right now. But, let's be realistic. He is holding the spot down until Heitmann returns. The best he can do is impress the team enough to replace Rachal or Iupati if they start the season slowly.

That a handful of Webzone board members believe they are so much more intelligent than all these coaches and scouts for all these years is either laughable or insanely arrogant.

That is why I respond. I am not prepared to call all of these coaches idiots for their naivity, especially when they daily see each player in the trenches, something that none of us have access to.

So, all those years that Baas was out with injury (two, I believe), or playing Guard, not Center (the other three), he was actually practicing EVERY DAY, at Center, so that the coaching staff could be absolutely SURE that he's not as good a center as Heitmann.

Who knew? Besides you, that is.

Really, Maddog, some of your statements, like the bolded above, are beyond asinine. They're really baseless, and dumb.

Here's another:

"He is simply inferior to Heitmann at center . . . [o]therwise we would have seen Baas as a starter at center at some point."

An excellent display of circuitous reasoning. Almost Yogi Berra like. ("Money, its like cash!")

BTW, in case you haven't noticed: we are seeing Baas as a starter at center. At this point.

According to your reasoning, he must, therefore, be better than Heitmann at center. Because he's now the starter there.

That's just really faulty logic, either way you argue it.

How about, instead of relying on the media, or on what you think (or make up) about what the coaches believe, let's just have the coaches make the final decision.

In the meantime, however, on this board--which surprisingly doesn't appear to have much effect on any actual coaching decisions--how about we simply express our opinions based on what we have actually seen, either live or on TV, and let it go at that.

Oh, and stop calling other posters idiots simply because their opinion of a player's actual performance doesn't agree with your own. Especially since you do not, and apparently cannot, point to a single instance of outstanding play by Heitmann to counter the numerous instances where his play has been below par.

The Rocky Bernard "whiff" for example.

The Dallas game two years ago when he got pushed back into the backfield, on two plays, once to destroy a shovel pass to Gore in the red zone, and again on a play when he was pushed back into a pulling Baas and completely destroyed a trap play.

The Minnesota game last year when he failed, miserably, to get a one foot push on a DT to allow Coffee to gain six inches for a first down in the last two minutes to keep possession, preserve the lead, and WIN the ballgame. Instead he got pushed backwards a foot or two and we had to punt the ball to Favre, who then had time to throw that godawful touchdown.

Give me a single instance of Heitmann's shining play to counter any of these. A single instance, at a crucial point in a game, when the Niners were able to gain that short yard, or less, on a fourth down. A single instance where he threw a key block.

Its a given that he's capable of making line calls. Its a given that he can pass protect somewhat in the first quarter, on a relatively meaningless second down.

But when and where has his play been really outstanding? (Being voted captain is not what I'm talking about. Neither is being voted Miss Congeniality.)

You say you watch the line play, and focus on the center play. Surely you can recall a play when he blocked low on a NG, allowing Gore to dive for a crucial TD? No?

When and where has he picked up a blitzing LB and given a QB that extra second to make a critical throw?

Give us an instance of his play (not what someone else says about him, or what you think the coaches think about him) that shows he's not too weak to consistently hold up the middle of the line, either in pass protection or on running plays. When's the last time, if ever, he's flattened an opposing player?

None of this will, of course, influence any coaching decisions about the center position once Heitmann returns.

But at least we will all get to air our own, individual opinions ABOUT THE PLAY WE SEE ON THE FIELD DURING GAMES without your gratuitous and self-serving insults regarding the intelligence of other posters. Thank you very much, in advance.

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Yep, it's a head-scratcher why they haven't given Baas serious reps at C 'til now. I think he's just more naturally suited to it over OG. He can be a beast at that position...given the proper coaching and reps. Heitmann's injury just may've extended his Niner career. It should also hasten the departure of Wallace...

I don't see it as a head scratcher. Baas has had plenty of years (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010) to show that he is the starting center for this team. For years in camp, he has practiced at center, in front of multiple head coaches, multiple offensive coordinators, multiple offensive line coaches. He is simply inferior to Heitmann at center, and inferior to Iupati at guard. Otherwise, we would have seen Baas as a starter at center at some point.

Baas is getting his chance to start right now. But, let's be realistic. He is holding the spot down until Heitmann returns. The best he can do is impress the team enough to replace Rachal or Iupati if they start the season slowly.

That a handful of Webzone board members believe they are so much more intelligent than all these coaches and scouts for all these years is either laughable or insanely arrogant.

That is why I respond. I am not prepared to call all of these coaches idiots for their naivity, especially when they daily see each player in the trenches, something that none of us have access to.

Baas was our starting guard last year and did not give up a sack. Let's just make that clear up front as a fact.

If 3 identical Eric Heitmann's compete for a job at center, only one of them will win it. Does this mean the other identical copies suck? No, they probably happened to do slightly worse as a function of circumstance.

There are endless examples of players coming out of nowhere due to circumstance/luck. Tom Brady was a backup. The coaches were so brilliant, they saw him as an inferior player to the eternally overrated Bledsoe. Same with Kurt Warner, he was not as good a player as Green in the eyes of the super expert coaches who see their players practice every day.
How about a non-quarterback? Derrick Deese? He was a backup for years until he got his opportunity and then he became an All-Pro left tackle.

Some players take time to develop, some players get injured in camp (David Baas), some players are more natural at one position than another (Barry Sims, Eric Heitmann, (David Baas?)), and some players play well in games, but practice average.

David Baas was always a solid player who needed time to develop. He needed extra time because he was injured in most of his first couple seasons. Also, he didn't go to Stanford like Heitmann, so perhaps he can't pick up information as quickly. Does it mean he is stupid? Does it mean he sucks? No.

David Baas had his strongest college season at center. Its why he went high in the draft.

David Baas and Eric Heitmann are different types of players.
Who is the better player, Larry Bird or Shaquille O'Neil? It is hard to answer that question because both players are so DIFFERENT that comparing them is kind of silly.
Baas is mauler, Heitmann is smart with good feet. They are different players. Just because Baas isn't as good at what Heitmann can do doesn't mean he is a bad player; and vice versa.

And who are the "experts" you speak of? The media? The commentators? You better be kidding. Former players? Former players are just fans, and nothing more. A great soldier does not make a great general. Their insight is rarely thought provoking.

And here is the nail in the coffin. You are not a professional scout. Yet your draft predictions OUTPERFORM those who are paid to do these things for a living. YOU proved it yourself. Pro Scouts do not walk on water, and sometimes stumble on flat ground when compared to an NFL enthusiast such as yourself.
By having such success against pro-scouts, you undermine your own point when it comes to their expertise and the validity of it, ergo the so-called "arrogance" of those who suppose to claim a superior argumentative position over a pro-scout is fallacious on its face.
Since you have indeed claimed to make mistakes in the past, I argue that you are making another mistake in regards to David Baas's ability.

Just like in the NFL draft, the proof is in the pudding.
The Williams Wall will be the ultimate test for David Baas and company.

Excellent post. Very logical and intelligent analysis. I agree with your conclusion as well.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Yep, it's a head-scratcher why they haven't given Baas serious reps at C 'til now. I think he's just more naturally suited to it over OG. He can be a beast at that position...given the proper coaching and reps. Heitmann's injury just may've extended his Niner career. It should also hasten the departure of Wallace...

I don't see it as a head scratcher. Baas has had plenty of years (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010) to show that he is the starting center for this team. For years in camp, he has practiced at center, in front of multiple head coaches, multiple offensive coordinators, multiple offensive line coaches. He is simply inferior to Heitmann at center, and inferior to Iupati at guard. Otherwise, we would have seen Baas as a starter at center at some point.

Baas is getting his chance to start right now. But, let's be realistic. He is holding the spot down until Heitmann returns. The best he can do is impress the team enough to replace Rachal or Iupati if they start the season slowly.

That a handful of Webzone board members believe they are so much more intelligent than all these coaches and scouts for all these years is either laughable or insanely arrogant.

That is why I respond. I am not prepared to call all of these coaches idiots for their naivity, especially when they daily see each player in the trenches, something that none of us have access to.

So you are saying there is absolutely no chance that Baas holds on to the job even when Heitmann returns? Not that I disagree, you just seem quite certain of yourself.
You say that a handful of these members believe they are so much more intelligent than the coaches and scouts, yet I recall you having some pretty harsh opinions about the Niners bringing Brooks aboard last year as well as various draft picks throughout the years. It's almost as if you believed you knew more than the niner coaching staff, scouts and front office. But that would just be insanely arrogant, right?

Remember that Solari and Singletary want continuity......IF Baas is performing well, the running game is clicking and Smith is standing upright 4 weeks into the season (heitmanns likely return) I have a hard time seeing heitmann starting.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Yep, it's a head-scratcher why they haven't given Baas serious reps at C 'til now. I think he's just more naturally suited to it over OG. He can be a beast at that position...given the proper coaching and reps. Heitmann's injury just may've extended his Niner career. It should also hasten the departure of Wallace...

I don't see it as a head scratcher. Baas has had plenty of years (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010) to show that he is the starting center for this team. For years in camp, he has practiced at center, in front of multiple head coaches, multiple offensive coordinators, multiple offensive line coaches. He is simply inferior to Heitmann at center, and inferior to Iupati at guard. Otherwise, we would have seen Baas as a starter at center at some point.

Baas is getting his chance to start right now. But, let's be realistic. He is holding the spot down until Heitmann returns. The best he can do is impress the team enough to replace Rachal or Iupati if they start the season slowly.

That a handful of Webzone board members believe they are so much more intelligent than all these coaches and scouts for all these years is either laughable or insanely arrogant.

That is why I respond. I am not prepared to call all of these coaches idiots for their naivity, especially when they daily see each player in the trenches, something that none of us have access to.

NO he hasn't. He's been a Guard his ENTIRE career. That may be lost on you but it's not lost on me. The one time that he got on the field as a Center he wasn't bad, BUT, he didn't have the same things going for him that Heitmann did. So they chose to go with Heitmann instead of teaching Baas the skillsets he needs.

It's easier not Teach a guy when you have someone on the roster that knows what to do. But what happens when the guy that knows what to do goes down?

That's right, you have to TEACH someone else what to do.

I should point out that the McKittrick award is a TEAM award. It's voted on by the players. And it's a TOUGHNESS award. It means F'ALL in the grand scheme of things when you stop to consider how crappy this Line has been for so long.

I really wish that people would stop giving MadDog a crutch in this argument. Heitmann was SERVICEABLE at Center. He's a better Guard and always has been.

MadDog I don't see what you don't understand.

You hate Nolan correct? Defensive Coach correct? Yeah I don't see how that guy could ever have been wrong. Baas sucks.

Warhopp? He had 100% anonymity since Nolan coached the Defense. Only one year did we have anything consistent on the Line and that was '06. I think that's more to Turner than Warhopp. Don't see how that guy could be wrong. Baas sucks.

And then last season? Sims moves from RT to LT and nobody gets around him for the most part. Don't see how Foerster could be wrong either. Baas sucks.

Dude which scenario shows that you're right not to question the coaching that our guys have been getting?

I don't get how you process this to be any other way than us not having a solid grasp of the fundamentals and that the prior two Coaches sucked.

I don't blame Nolan 100% here cause the man like Sing, is a Defensive Coach. As a HC those guys have to trust that their Offensive staff knows what they are doing and make adjustments based on that.

But I do blame Warhopp and Foerster. These guys are tasked with teaching the Line and making sure they're a cohesive unit. Show me ONE year where they were a cohesive unit? Not even in '06 were they that. Allen is a potential HoF'er. Heitmann was a band-aid fix. Name another player off that unit that didn't have trouble. Don't forget now, Jennings never put 12 games on the field in any year he was here.

Should I start listing off the players and breaking down their issues for you? Or do you think that besides Heitmann you can name them off and proving that Warhopp and Foerster were solid coaches? They weren't but I'll humor you if you think that I'm wrong.

~Ceadder