Move David Baas to center

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:

Originally posted by Joecool:
It seemed as though Baas didn't see the stunt coming but with the OL, especially the Guards and Tackle, it's difficult to see who is supposed to block who.


As for Run-Blocking: I loved it!!!! These guys were getting good 2 yard pushes.


Honestly, to this team, run blocking is more important than pass blocking as Gore is the key.

Something Heitmann has not really been able to do since his leg injury in 06.

It WAS nice to watch a game and not see the center of the O Line collapse.

Irrespective of all the admiration for Heitmann and his "new clothes" by the media, and by some on this board, I agree with you, Heitmann's play has been a problem since 06. Kudos to you for raising the issue, and supporting your position--while still considering the opinions of others who may not agree.

There have been numerous past instances of Heitmann getting pushed into the backfield, regular failures to get any push on short yardage plays. It was nice, on Sunday, to see that this wasn't happening for a change.

Heitmann's experience and knowledge of the game will be hard to replace, no doubt. There is still time to do so this preseason, IMHO.

The left side, Staley and Iupati, appear to be well on their way to "gelling," and playing well together.

With Heitmann out, there is less concern over the physical play at center. (Still concern over the mental aspect, the knowledge and experience Baas and/or Wragge bring to the pass protection calls, etc., but that's what coaches are for.)

Tho I'd never wish an injury on any Niner, Heitmann's brief absence may be a blessing in disguise if it forces the coaching staff to reevaluate the center position.

Now, if Rachal and A. Davis can progress on the right side, we may begin to see some improvement in the OL play. Or at least begin to better identify the problems and address them.

Clearly, the OL problems last year were caused by more than just Snyder at RT. IMHO.

Honestly, right now, I don't give a crap about the mental aspect of Baas because as long as he helps get that 2 yard push in the middle of the O-Line, all we will need Alex to do is complete quick 1 or 3 yard passes after Gore has gotten 8 or so yards in his first two carries.

For the record, I think you have to put Staley as our best O-lineman.

Good chance we drafted a center next year to either develop behind Heitmann anyways. Wallace wasn't going to be the guy. Heit is an 8 year vet and it's hard to make the argument that he's a great player given how poor the line has played in recent years. Put me in the blessing in disguise category.

Worst case scenario: Baas loses some games for us early this season but at least we know we need to use a high pick on a center.

Best case: Baas plays great and we have our O-line done.

MaioccoCSN: 49ers coach Mike Singletary says of David Baas: "He took a big step in being the center right now."

Originally posted by ghostrider:
Everyone thinks Baas did great but I saw some plays that were obvious he made the wrong protection call that resulted in an unblocked or nearly unblocked guy pressuring the QB. If I notice that, then it's REALLY obvious and that scares me.

I will say this though, I expected a couple of fumbled snaps based on the TC reports. I was very pleased not to see any of those.

I think you're referring to the draw play, where the linebacker came through untouched. I don't know if he is supposed to chip the linebacker on a draw play, because you want them to come forward on that type of play.

As for pass pro, the only wiffs I saw were from Rachal and Davis, and I think one of the backup TE's completely missed a guy on the left.

Rachal still gets confused at times and Davis simply hasn't learned how to drop back correctly.

Originally posted by PTulini:
MaioccoCSN: 49ers coach Mike Singletary says of David Baas: "He took a big step in being the center right now."

Baas COMPLETELY BLEW ME AWAY yesterday, he was a solid brick wall. -If only Anthony Davis didn't have to take on Mathis Alex would have probably been able to get more comfortable/have better timing within the pocket.

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:

Originally posted by Shorteous:
I say move Heitmann to RG if Rachal can't pull it together by the time he gets healthy. Having Heitmann next to Davis would undoubtedly help him develop his technique. I was very impressed by Baas last night, and RFJ for that matter.

Heitmann would be even worse at RG where u really need a big, strong, drive blocker. At least at Center, he does a good job of making the line calls and a decent job of reading blitzes. I do have a feeling though that Baas will end up starting either at C or RG before the year is over on a full time basis.

Exactly. I want Rachal on the bench. He is very inconsistent and can be judged as a poor draft selection at this point, just as Balmer was. I hate that we passed on Jackson for these two bums, but there isn't much sense on dwelling on it. Rachal plays with no passion and gives up on plays time and time again. I'm not an expert on offensive lineman by any means, but I can see when a guy is dogging it, and Rachal often is.

Originally posted by Joecool:
It seemed as though Baas didn't see the stunt coming but with the OL, especially the Guards and Tackle, it's difficult to see who is supposed to block who.


As for Run-Blocking: I loved it!!!! These guys were getting good 2 yard pushes.


Honestly, to this team, run blocking is more important than pass blocking as Gore is the key.

I agree. Our defense is going to make plays and we just need a solid running game to rest them and control games. We're not going to blow teams out of the water, but we should beat them up!

Gotta admit; center was a spot I really didn't want to see messed with, but getting that kind of push from Baas made me a lot more comfortable with the move. Baas still has a lot to prove but he'll have that chance. Next game we'll get a lot better look at em against Minny. Anybody know what the Williams' pre season situation is by the way?

Even though Heitmann never blew anybody up when he was at center, he still holds tremendous value as a leader imho. If Rachal can't pull his head out of his ass by the time Heitmann's ready to go again, the coaching staff should take the opportunity to make that swap. Heitmann can still help Baas through any growing pains at center and will be considerably more dependable than Rachal in pass protect. Even better; having Heitmann play beside whatever RT we go with, should help that player settle in as well. We almost have to make the move in my eyes. It falls into place just a little too perfect though, so it must be wrong Might have lost his best years to circumstance but I'll bet Heitmann can still play a pretty mean OG on a line that's absolutely begging for someone to glue it together.

As far as the overall progress of the line, I think we're ahead of the curve; at least on the left side. If the right side can work out the pass protect and at least maintain a stalemate on the runs, we should be fine. Wouldn't be the first left handed running attack we've seen. As I remember it: the late 90's-early 2000's Chiefs and the Shanahan Broncos both had very left handed, zone blocking running attacks and those are just the awesome ones that I can remember. Even the garbage eating birds ran pretty heavy to the left the year they went to the super bowl...you'd have to be crazy not to with Jones and Hutchinson on that side. But all of those teams could stretch the field from under center and that will always be the sticking point for us until Smitty can prove otherwise.

It's always worth mentioning that Mike Solari coached those awesome Chiefs lines and while he wasn't the architect behind the Seahawks playoff lines; he did send Walter Jones to the pro bowl...and Willie Roaf was pretty ok too. If anybody knows what a great LT looks like, it's that man

[ Edited by NatralBrnThrila on Aug 16, 2010 at 20:34:57 ]

I was honestly disgusted when heitmann was rewarded with his 3 yeyar extension last year. I have never been a big fan of his and have always wanted to see Baas get a shot at C......I for one hope that heitmann is a slow healer and Baas plays exceptionally well...so well that they decide to keep him starting....with a 4 year contract for Baas...


Staley Iupati Baas Rachal Davis
Boone Snyder Wragge Snyder Boone

Originally posted by btwagner:
I was honestly disgusted when heitmann was rewarded with his 3 yeyar extension last year. I have never been a big fan of his and have always wanted to see Baas get a shot at C......I for one hope that heitmann is a slow healer and Baas plays exceptionally well...so well that they decide to keep him starting....with a 4 year contract for Baas...


Staley Iupati Baas Rachal Davis
Boone Snyder Wragge Snyder Boone

I like the idea of Heittman as the starting right guard. I think that could do wonders for Anthony Davis, and our O-line in general.

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:

Originally posted by btwagner:
I was honestly disgusted when heitmann was rewarded with his 3 yeyar extension last year. I have never been a big fan of his and have always wanted to see Baas get a shot at C......I for one hope that heitmann is a slow healer and Baas plays exceptionally well...so well that they decide to keep him starting....with a 4 year contract for Baas...


Staley Iupati Baas Rachal Davis
Boone Snyder Wragge Snyder Boone

I like the idea of Heittman as the starting right guard. I think that could do wonders for Anthony Davis, and our O-line in general.

Heitmann to RG will never happen. They moved him from RG to Center years ago because he just isn't a real good run-drive blocker.

I'm just thankful that Baas made me look like a genius. I been on this toot for a long time. I never did understand why Nolan and McCloughan drafted him to be the Center but never put him in reps. At least not enough to get a reasonable idea of what he can do.

This is the one thing that pisses me off the most about the last 5 years. We draft guys to do something and then don't give them the reps they need to show us what they are or are not capable of.

Baas Center
MRob Running Back
Jason Hill Receiver
Balmer hardly got any reps cause we basically had our Starters to begin with.
Miller Fullback

The list is long. These aren't the only guys. And no I don't believe in throwing players to the wolves. But you have to get them reps at the very least otherwise you don't have any business turning in a draft card imho. Shoot Delanie Walker didn't get much in the way of reps when our blocking TE was on the field. Can you imagine how many points were left on the field?

Shoot even guys we DIDN'T draft were brought in to languish. It's excruciatingly painful to contemplate what COULD have been if these guys had just been shown a bit of confidence by the Coaching staff. Freakin Sullivan being one of the main culprits of this.

I hope Sing just lets the reigns go slack and gives this team the freedom they need.

I think they're ready for a Postseason. They're hungry.

And yes I know Balmer was traded. I just hope that he doesn't go JP on us. All I want to know is when is this team going to learn? DO NOT TRADE WITHIN THE DIVISION!

~Ceadder

[ Edited by Ceadderman on Aug 17, 2010 at 05:05:28 ]

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
I'm just thankful that Baas made me look like a genius. I been on this toot for a long time. I never did understand why Nolan and McCloughan drafted him to be the Center but never put him in reps. At least not enough to get a reasonable idea of what he can do.

This is the one thing that pisses me off the most about the last 5 years. We draft guys to do something and then don't give them the reps they need to show us what they are or are not capable of.

Baas Center
MRob Running Back
Jason Hill Receiver
Balmer hardly got any reps cause we basically had our Starters to begin with.
Miller Fullback

The list is long. These aren't the only guys. And no I don't believe in throwing players to the wolves. But you have to get them reps at the very least otherwise you don't have any business turning in a draft card imho. Shoot Delanie Walker didn't get much in the way of reps when our blocking TE was on the field. Can you imagine how many points were left on the field?

Shoot even guys we DIDN'T draft were brought in to languish. It's excruciatingly painful to contemplate what COULD have been if these guys had just been shown a bit of confidence by the Coaching staff. Freakin Sullivan being one of the main culprits of this.

I hope Sing just lets the reigns go slack and gives this team the freedom they need.

I think they're ready for a Postseason. They're hungry.

And yes I know Balmer was traded. I just hope that he doesn't go JP on us. All I want to know is when is this team going to learn? DO NOT TRADE WITHIN THE DIVISION!

~Ceadder

JP left as a FA

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
I'm just thankful that Baas made me look like a genius. I been on this toot for a long time. I never did understand why Nolan and McCloughan drafted him to be the Center but never put him in reps. At least not enough to get a reasonable idea of what he can do.

This is the one thing that pisses me off the most about the last 5 years. We draft guys to do something and then don't give them the reps they need to show us what they are or are not capable of.

Baas Center
MRob Running Back
Jason Hill Receiver
Balmer hardly got any reps cause we basically had our Starters to begin with.
Miller Fullback

The list is long. These aren't the only guys. And no I don't believe in throwing players to the wolves. But you have to get them reps at the very least otherwise you don't have any business turning in a draft card imho. Shoot Delanie Walker didn't get much in the way of reps when our blocking TE was on the field. Can you imagine how many points were left on the field?

Shoot even guys we DIDN'T draft were brought in to languish. It's excruciatingly painful to contemplate what COULD have been if these guys had just been shown a bit of confidence by the Coaching staff. Freakin Sullivan being one of the main culprits of this.

I hope Sing just lets the reigns go slack and gives this team the freedom they need.

I think they're ready for a Postseason. They're hungry.

And yes I know Balmer was traded. I just hope that he doesn't go JP on us. All I want to know is when is this team going to learn? DO NOT TRADE WITHIN THE DIVISION!

~Ceadder

Wha

They drafted a good offensive lineman

I highly doubt they said Oh we gonna draft this Baas kid to be the center fo sho

Baas was the highest rated Guard in all of college football to start the 2004 season he didn’t play center until half way through his senior year.

The entire Michigan line was so dominate headed up by Baas he ended up sharing the award for the nations top center.

You can’t expect a guy who’s played like 7 games at center in college to come in and take over the most demanding line position in the nfl.

Cast the bust for the Hall of Fame!

David Baas played pretty well against the 24th ranked rush defense in the NFL, headlined by the immortal rotation of Antonio Johnson, Daniel Muir (signed a one year contract this year), Fili Moala (7 career tackles), and bench superstars Marlon Favorite and Mitch King. This is simply one of the greatest colletion of DT's in NFL history.

Now that I can abandon sarcasm, let's get to reality:
1) Baas played a pretty good game. In all sincerity, Congrats to Baas! However, let's be realistic about the level of competition he played against, and how defenses do not throw a lot of wrinkles into preseason games.
2) Players do not simply become "good" overnight, even if some board members pray day and night that it happens. Baas has worked out at center his entire career, and if any of the previous head coaches, offensive coordinators, offensive line coaches, or team scouts on the team thought he was very good at the position, he wouldn't be behind Heitmann on the depth chart.
3) The Niners thought so highly of Baas that they gave him a...one year contract. These are the same people who have access to see him play that no one on this board possesses (practices, scrimmages, etc.).
4) One game does not make a career, nor does one practice. A week ago, people were calling for Wragge to replace Baas after Baas could not consistently snap the ball accurately to Smith in practice. Suddenly, he is a star???

The bottom line is that there are a few wishful thinkers on this board, as well as one "genius". These people, in the end, will more than likely be proven wrong. If not, I will come forward and say that I was wrong. The "genius" has been wrong for years now, and can gloat over his one preaseon game. Good for him. You are a one-game preseason genius.

Players do not suddenly emerge overnight to become good. Baas was a player not even in contention for a starting spot at center. Suddenly, he is a star? Let's be realistic. You must think the whole organization is full of idiots. So, enjoy your season in the sun. The reality of Baas' talent to start is going to emerge sometime sooner rather than later, when he has to face real NFL tackles, not soup cans. Enjoy the gloating for now.

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Aug 17, 2010 at 06:10:22 ]