Whats up with Brandon Jones??

Originally posted by NinerGM:
For four or five years? How long does is this excuse valid? Pace is doing pretty good for the Bears. Better than Tony Pashos? Hmmm. There is something called draft picks and trading for needs. NY Jets anyone? If your only option as a GM in the NFL is FA then you really shouldn't be one.

Especially since 4/6 of your "blue chip" starters aren't homegrown draft picks.

Calvin Pace on the Jets? He's had a grand total of 0 sacks this year and 7 sacks last year. That was on a 6yr/$42M contract with $20M guaranteed. That contract made Pace one of the highest paid LBs in NFL history.

We gave Haralson a 4yr/$15M contract with $6.5M guaranteed for almost the same production. You tell me who did the better job there.

Orlando Pace? The same guy who false started last Monday night on 4th down? lol He was turning 33 when he signed with the Bears and got 3yr/$15M contract.

We weren't talking about his draft history now were we?

-9fA

Originally posted by NinerGM:
No Braylon Edwards for the Jets. I'll take Pace over Tony Pashos and Adam Snyder at RT. Turning 33?

Let's compare Pace to Marvel Smith.

Let's talk about draft history. My count is Davis (finally), Gore, Willis and Staley. He drafted Smiley and let him go. Everyone else would be a bench player on any other squad in the league except maybe Detroit or St. Louis.

Your pick - we can talk about this last off-season or any compilation of off-seasons. The body of work is starting to congeal and build a clear case.

You wanted for us to trade for Braylon Edwards? Why? Don't we already have enough money tied to the WR position. We need our draft picks in order to address those needs at G and T. By the way, Edwards is a FA after this season and if the Jets don't re-sign him, it's gonna be a fail on their part.

It's not McCloughan's fault that nobody else realized how to use Davis till Raye has come along. It really is just as simple as sending him up the seam....Agreed with you on Smiley, we should have re-signed him. The rest of the paragraph was just hyerbole.

-9fA

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
No Braylon Edwards for the Jets. I'll take Pace over Tony Pashos and Adam Snyder at RT. Turning 33?

Let's compare Pace to Marvel Smith.

Let's talk about draft history. My count is Davis (finally), Gore, Willis and Staley. He drafted Smiley and let him go. Everyone else would be a bench player on any other squad in the league except maybe Detroit or St. Louis.

Your pick - we can talk about this last off-season or any compilation of off-seasons. The body of work is starting to congeal and build a clear case.

You wanted for us to trade for Braylon Edwards? Why? Don't we already have enough money tied to the WR position. We need our draft picks in order to address those needs at G and T. By the way, Edwards is a FA after this season and if the Jets don't re-sign him, it's gonna be a fail on their part.

It's not McCloughan's fault that nobody else realized how to use Davis till Raye has come along. It really is just as simple as sending him up the seam....Agreed with you on Smiley, we should have re-signed him. The rest of the paragraph was just hyerbole.

-9fA

No dude. I didn't want us to trade for Edwards it was an EXAMPLE of how a team aggressively tries to fills needs despite the FA market. I'm sorry I should have made that a little more clear.

It's not McCloughan's fault that nobody else realized how to use Davis til Ray has come along? And how many drops has Davis had before this year?

LOL!!! Hyperbole?

Marvel Smith hyperbole?
Brandon Jones hyperbole?
No pass-rusher hyperbole (for 4 years)?
And the quiet/unnoticed bust in Kentwan Balmer hypbole?
We said Jerrod Allen wasn't worth his FA price yet we pay Smith or Clements the even more? Hyperbole?

That's not a response bud, that's a cop out. Come one give me some reasoning as to why you think what I said is hyperbole.

Reading is key, I wrote "The rest of the paragraph was just hyperbole." Not the whole post, just that paragraph where you said "Everyone else would be a bench player on any other squad in the league except maybe Detroit or St. Louis."

That's hyperbole.

-9fA

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
No Braylon Edwards for the Jets. I'll take Pace over Tony Pashos and Adam Snyder at RT. Turning 33?

Let's compare Pace to Marvel Smith.

Let's talk about draft history. My count is Davis (finally), Gore, Willis and Staley. He drafted Smiley and let him go. Everyone else would be a bench player on any other squad in the league except maybe Detroit or St. Louis.

Your pick - we can talk about this last off-season or any compilation of off-seasons. The body of work is starting to congeal and build a clear case.

You wanted for us to trade for Braylon Edwards? Why? Don't we already have enough money tied to the WR position. We need our draft picks in order to address those needs at G and T. By the way, Edwards is a FA after this season and if the Jets don't re-sign him, it's gonna be a fail on their part.

It's not McCloughan's fault that nobody else realized how to use Davis till Raye has come along. It really is just as simple as sending him up the seam....Agreed with you on Smiley, we should have re-signed him. The rest of the paragraph was just hyerbole.

-9fA

No dude. I didn't want us to trade for Edwards it was an EXAMPLE of how a team aggressively tries to fills needs despite the FA market. I'm sorry I should have made that a little more clear.

It's not McCloughan's fault that nobody else realized how to use Davis til Ray has come along? And how many drops has Davis had before this year?

LOL!!! Hyperbole?

Marvel Smith hyperbole?
Brandon Jones hyperbole?
No pass-rusher hyperbole (for 4 years)?
And the quiet/unnoticed bust in Kentwan Balmer hypbole?
We said Jerrod Allen wasn't worth his FA price yet we pay Smith or Clements the even more? Hyperbole?

That's not a response bud, that's a cop out. Come one give me some reasoning as to why you think what I said is hyperbole.

Reading is key, I wrote "The rest of the paragraph was just hyperbole." Not the whole post, just that paragraph where you said "Everyone else would be a bench player on any other squad in the league except maybe Detroit or St. Louis."

That's hyperbole.

-9fA

Wait you say I wanted us to trade for Braylon Edwards and accuse me of not reading?!?! ROFL!!!

Again, tell me on what team outside the two I named where Soapoaga, Snyder, Baas, Rachal, Balmer, Brown, Simms, Robinson, Walker, Clayton, Cohen, Jason Hill, Moore, Brown, McDonald, Gordon, Wallace, etc.

Particularly 2008 - I call that the bust draft

1 Kentwan Balmer
2 Chilo Rachal
3 Reggie Smith
4 Cody Wallace
6 Josh Morgan
7 Larry Grant

Again, you're calling hyperbole - please tell me where these guys start outside of the teams I mentioned?

You said "No Braylon Edwards for the Jets." We were talking about FA moves, Edwards has never been a FA so the only way to get Edwards would be to trade for him. I replied "You wanted for us to trade for Braylon Edwards?". Did you not see the question mark at the end? I thought that might have been a big clue!

Hyperbole: An intentional exaggeration for emphasis or comic effect.

Can't believe i have to spell everything out.

-9fA

Jesus Christ.

First of, you talk about facts. What facts do you use? That "everyone else would be a bench player on any other squad in the league except maybe Detroit or St. Louis."? That McCloughans' 2008 draft is a "bust draft"?

The only universal facts there are in judging players are their statistics. EVERYTHING else is opinion. I hope you see this. There are very little facts to be used.

I love to talk football, i just don't want to talk football with someone who makes statements such those above and then says that i don't use facts lol. How the hell am i supposed to know where the players you listed might start? How do you even reply to a question like that?

And yes i called you out on your hyperbole. You asked for reasoning as to why what you said was hyperbole, i gave you reasoning. There is no shame in using hyperbole. It's ok. We all do it. Just when you get called on it, don't get all defensive.

And i'm sorry i couldn't connect your word sentence to some previous post. I still have no idea why you mentioned Edwards or where he came from and yes you could have made it more clear.

This is bloody hilarious and sad at the same time. Cheers.

-9fA

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Jesus Christ.

First of, you talk about facts. What facts do you use? That "everyone else would be a bench player on any other squad in the league except maybe Detroit or St. Louis."? That McCloughans' 2008 draft is a "bust draft"?

The only universal facts there are in judging players are their statistics. EVERYTHING else is opinion. I hope you see this. There are very little facts to be used.

I love to talk football, i just don't want to talk football with someone who makes statements such those above and then says that i don't use facts lol. How the hell am i supposed to know where the players you listed might start? How do you even reply to a question like that?

And yes i called you out on your hyperbole. You asked for reasoning as to why what you said was hyperbole, i gave you reasoning. There is no shame in using hyperbole. It's ok. We all do it. Just when you get called on it, don't get all defensive.

And i'm sorry i couldn't connect your word sentence to some previous post. I still have no idea why you mentioned Edwards or where he came from and yes you could have made it more clear.

This is bloody hilarious and sad at the same time. Cheers.

-9fA

Here's a statistic (and my point all along):

NONE OF THOSE PLAYERS ARE STARTERS. NOT ONE PICK FROM THE 2008 draft. Let's just think about that for a moment so it sinks in and you not change the subject....

























Not having a starter from an ENTIRE draft is called a BUST draft.


ALL, not one, two or some of the off-season acquisitions ARE NOT STARTING OR CONTRIBUTING AT ALL. That shows up on the statistics:

Brandon Jones: ZERO catches, ZERO TDs, ZERO yards
Marvel Smith: ZERO starts

Those are the fact. That' s not interpretation.

Dude I'm done responding because it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. Keep talking about hyperbole it's obvious that you want to talk about that rather than real football statistics.

I don't think you judge if a draft is a complete bust after just one season.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Jesus Christ.

First of, you talk about facts. What facts do you use? That "everyone else would be a bench player on any other squad in the league except maybe Detroit or St. Louis."? That McCloughans' 2008 draft is a "bust draft"?

The only universal facts there are in judging players are their statistics. EVERYTHING else is opinion. I hope you see this. There are very little facts to be used.

I love to talk football, i just don't want to talk football with someone who makes statements such those above and then says that i don't use facts lol. How the hell am i supposed to know where the players you listed might start? How do you even reply to a question like that?

And yes i called you out on your hyperbole. You asked for reasoning as to why what you said was hyperbole, i gave you reasoning. There is no shame in using hyperbole. It's ok. We all do it. Just when you get called on it, don't get all defensive.

And i'm sorry i couldn't connect your word sentence to some previous post. I still have no idea why you mentioned Edwards or where he came from and yes you could have made it more clear.

This is bloody hilarious and sad at the same time. Cheers.

-9fA

Here's a statistic (and my point all along):

NONE OF THOSE PLAYERS ARE STARTERS. NOT ONE PICK FROM THE 2008 draft. Let's just think about that for a moment so it sinks in and you not change the subject....

Not having a starter from an ENTIRE draft is called a BUST draft.


ALL, not one, two or some of the off-season acquisitions ARE NOT STARTING OR CONTRIBUTING AT ALL. That shows up on the statistics:

Brandon Jones: ZERO catches, ZERO TDs, ZERO yards
Marvel Smith: ZERO starts

Those are the fact. That' s not interpretation.

Dude I'm done responding because it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. Keep talking about hyperbole it's obvious that you want to talk about that rather than real football statistics.

LOL, why keep coming back then? I'm trying to drop this hyperbole s**t but you keep bringing it up again. Saying statements like "you have no idea what you're talking about" and then not specifying why doesn't GET US ANYWHERE when having a conversation.

Brandon Jones, out for two months. Of course he wasn't going to start. Is that what you were expecting? Heck, after Bruce came back and Crabtree was drafted it was hard for anybody to see Jones start. You're gonna put all that on McCloughan?

Marvel Smith was a low risk signing that could potentially have had high reward. It didn't work out.

This is all going back to my original point, last offseason, there weren't many value FAs at positions of need.

-9fA

Originally posted by NinerGM:

NOT ONE PICK FROM THE 2008 draft. Let's just think about that for a moment so it sinks in and you not change the subject....

Not having a starter from an ENTIRE draft is called a BUST draft.

Your point is just flat out WRONG.

2008 draft:
Kentwan Balmer
Chilo Rachal
Reggie Smith
Cody Wallace
Josh Morgan
Larry Grant

Rachal has started 11 games and Morgan has started 6 games. Maybe you forgot, i dunno but lets just say that was an honest mistake or another example of hyperbole

Should Balmer be starting by now? Yeah i think he should. Because he isn't, am i gonna call him a flat out bust? No. It is generally agreed around the league that linemen tend not to make significant impact in their rookie year because of the steep learning curve. Manusky alluded to this himself.

I dunno how much stock you can put into expecting to draft starters in the mid-late rounds. Especially if you're going to look back after 1 year. May they be starters somewhere down the road? Possibly yes, possibly no. For example, Wallace is the backup center, are we going to find a center in the draft who is going to unseat Heitmann? Very unlikely. Is depth necessary at the position? I would say yes.

You either have got to have a sad team or the world's best scouting department if you want to find consistent starters on offense and defense in the latter rounds.

Point being, it may be too early to judge the 2008 draft.

-9fA

Originally posted by NinerGM:
STARTED

PAST TENSE.


AND BENCHED.

and let's catch my quote in its entirety.

Not one of those players are STARTERS. As in currently starting? LOL.

Come on, you've got to have more than that to fall back on.

By the way, i answered another question on the previous page. Cause you know, i don't like to talk football.

-9fA

This, still....

You guys could PM each other to continue this retarded argument.

...and things can't change?



I don't mean to minimize what is being said, but the fact is that in this team your actions and not your mouth speak louder than words. There have been some unforseen circumstances for Jones including his injury.

The fact is that Crabtree has impressed with his ability on the practice field that warrants his move up the ranks in such a quick time. Again as I have said, talent is as talent does. Some kids have "it". Maybe he does. We shall see. When we witness the game unfold on Sunday, you can be assured that Crabtee will have a greater chance of success than Jones.

That is why Jones is peed. Dude knows. He doesn't like the fact that a rookie just kicked his azz to # four. Next year he becomes our #3. If he can't frickin' get that then he deserves to be shown the door. This will become Crabtree's and Morgan's, period. Therefore if Jones doesn't have the vision to see the writing on the wall, then trade his azz!

Enough is enough with the "Me" tude. That is why I love Singletary. Total team mentality. Whether most believe or not, he really has our team's success in mind in everything he does as our HC. Most just play it off, but he's a champion already so he knows first hand how to get there.

That is why the coaches made the choice to get Crabtree in the mix as quickly as possible. I see the logic in it after all...get your best players on the field. Hmmmmm... 5 million guaranteed VS what, 15-20 million (I really don't remember and too tired to click Google)...Crabtree wins in terms of money invested on the field.

Talent is as talent does!

Crabtree: (thinking in his head).......run.....plant.....now cut

Jones: (thinking in the background).......WTF?

Originally posted by Snider8706:
I have a feeling raye is going to open up the play book and we're going to get our passing game going.....this is why I think they're starting crabtree. I heard somewhere that raye and his system always did better after the fifth game of the year.

I've been wondering (and hoping) there was SOME method to this vanilla madness.

With our less-than-explosive offense Raye and Singletary seem to believe it's best to keep what few cards we have close to the vest and only show a new wrinkle when the game is on the line. (i.e. Hill's unexpected passing frenzy to take the lead in Minnesota).

It was a successful formula...until the Atlanta game.

Hopefully you are correct and Raye starts opening things up.

plain and simple: Jones was signed before Bruce decided to return and Crabtree was drafted.

He was injured in preseason after looking like he'd be a solid #2 at worst.... now is completely lost in a mix of WR's that we don't use anyways!!

Originally posted by loyal9er:
plain and simple: Jones was signed before Bruce decided to return and Crabtree was drafted.

He was injured in preseason after looking like he'd be a solid #2 at worst.... now is completely lost in a mix of WR's that we don't use anyways!!

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. Jones should realize that and put more effort in climbing up the depth chart than running his mouth to the media. He has the tools; he can do it. Then again, he is a WR and I guess most of them just can't help it.