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Shaun Hill, 1st downs, playoffs-article

Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.

Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

We have basically the same personnel on O, but Hill's stats are remarkably lower this year. You could blame that on Martz pass-happy offense, but we are talking about %'s and ratings, something that would not be affected by passing a lot or passing a little. The only thing to change with our offense is the playcalling. I mean what is it?

The order of the playcalling?
the lack of plays developing?
the plays themselves?

Or have defenses supposedly just "figured out" Hill as many doubters thought they would? I would like to see how our offense would have done with Martz this year, relative to how we have done so far...

I mean, am I imagining things, or do we have the exact same offensive pieces as last year? The only difference this year is playcalling...

DEF know all they have to do is load the box and cover the short throws literally MAKE hill throw down field as he has NO accuracy at all +20 yards - playcalling is not helping but Hill is just not a starter in this league - you can't win in today's NFL with a limited QB - it is just not possible to be an Elite team with that model.
One thing I don't understand is when asked about Hill, Singletary says Hill should not have to carry the team on his back. Singletary IS putting Hill in a position of putting the team on his back if the team heavily relies on Hill to convert 3rd and 8 over and over again.
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.
Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

I understand the argument...but ask Rodgers about playing behind a garbage Oline....He's still winning games and putting up good numbers...or ask Rothlisberger about Garbage Olines...oh yeah he won the superbowl despite the poor play upfront. I undestand it takes the whole unit in order to be successful but...good QB's can make plays despite the obstacles...face it Hill does not fit in that category....

I was Roethlisberger with 6 seconds to throw yesterday, he got a touchdown, I wish Hill had 6 seconds to throw...

So I guess last year when his Oline sucked and they still won the superbowl that meant nothing?? look man I like Hill as leader....good locker room presence and just an all around good guy....but he can't make throws down the field in the face of pressure..that's a fact....6 seconds or not doesn't help his cause.
[ Edited by Ninerbowl6 on Oct 19, 2009 at 1:16 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
One thing I don't understand is when asked about Hill, Singletary says Hill should not have to carry the team on his back. Singletary IS putting Hill in a position of putting the team on his back if the team heavily relies on Hill to convert 3rd and 8 over and over again.

I hear you man....Sings a great motivator and a leader of men...but he doesn't seem to smart....only time will tell but Sing says some crazy things from time to time.
Originally posted by DShanghai69er:
"He’s smart, he’s unflappable, he has a nice feel for the game, he’s tough, and he’s a leader. He mostly fits what Mike Singletary wants in a QB, and that’s good. He’s probably the 49ers’ best QB.

But Hill has sub-par arm strength, so when defenses take away the short stuff–and when the short stuff isn’t designed well–he can be a very blah, very beatable QB, especially if you get a passrush on him, mess up the quick timing, and move his feet."

This EXACTLY describes Shaun Hill and our current offensive predictament. I think Shaun IS the best QB on our roster, but so long as the offensive line is as porous as a sieve and our playcalling is bland and predictable, he (or anyone playing QB for us) is gonna look outright horrible...

Shanghai'D

This is what drives me nuts about threads like this one. Yeah, let's go ahead and make all the QB changes possible and see what happens... Meanwhile, just ignore the 800lb. gorilla in the room that is our offensive line. No QB can be successful behind our OL. Hill is not the problem. Neither Smith nor Davis are capable of fixing what the problem is either. The problem is simply the 800 lb. gorilla. Coach knows this and that's why he's making changes.

Of course having a couple 800 lb. gorillas on the OL would be nice too!


LB
Originally posted by leebert81:
Originally posted by DShanghai69er:
"He’s smart, he’s unflappable, he has a nice feel for the game, he’s tough, and he’s a leader. He mostly fits what Mike Singletary wants in a QB, and that’s good. He’s probably the 49ers’ best QB.

But Hill has sub-par arm strength, so when defenses take away the short stuff–and when the short stuff isn’t designed well–he can be a very blah, very beatable QB, especially if you get a passrush on him, mess up the quick timing, and move his feet."

This EXACTLY describes Shaun Hill and our current offensive predictament. I think Shaun IS the best QB on our roster, but so long as the offensive line is as porous as a sieve and our playcalling is bland and predictable, he (or anyone playing QB for us) is gonna look outright horrible...

Shanghai'D

This is what drives me nuts about threads like this one. Yeah, let's go ahead and make all the QB changes possible and see what happens... Meanwhile, just ignore the 800lb. gorilla in the room that is our offensive line. No QB can be successful behind our OL. Hill is not the problem. Neither Smith nor Davis are capable of fixing what the problem is either. The problem is simply the 800 lb. gorilla. Coach knows this and that's why he's making changes.

Of course having a couple 800 lb. gorillas on the OL would be nice too!


LB

This has driven me nuts over the past few years as well, but what is really funny is how these guys that slammed Smith for struggling behind this crappy line are now willing to use it to excuse poor play from Hill.
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.
Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

I understand the argument...but ask Rodgers about playing behind a garbage Oline....He's still winning games and putting up good numbers...or ask Rothlisberger about Garbage Olines...oh yeah he won the superbowl despite the poor play upfront. I undestand it takes the whole unit in order to be successful but...good QB's can make plays despite the obstacles...face it Hill does not fit in that category....

I was Roethlisberger with 6 seconds to throw yesterday, he got a touchdown, I wish Hill had 6 seconds to throw...

So I guess last year when his Oline sucked and they still won the superbowl that meant nothing?? look man I like Hill as leader....good locker room presence and just an all around good guy....but he can't make throws down the field in the face of pressure..that's a fact....6 seconds or not doesn't help his cause.

What are you basing this off of? He has thrown accurate deep throws.
Originally posted by Sugatis:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.

Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

We have basically the same personnel on O, but Hill's stats are remarkably lower this year. You could blame that on Martz pass-happy offense, but we are talking about %'s and ratings, something that would not be affected by passing a lot or passing a little. The only thing to change with our offense is the playcalling. I mean what is it?

The order of the playcalling?
the lack of plays developing?
the plays themselves?

Or have defenses supposedly just "figured out" Hill as many doubters thought they would? I would like to see how our offense would have done with Martz this year, relative to how we have done so far...

I mean, am I imagining things, or do we have the exact same offensive pieces as last year? The only difference this year is playcalling...

DEF know all they have to do is load the box and cover the short throws literally MAKE hill throw down field as he has NO accuracy at all +20 yards - playcalling is not helping but Hill is just not a starter in this league - you can't win in today's NFL with a limited QB - it is just not possible to be an Elite team with that model.

NO ACCuracy at all??? While I am sure your being sarcastic when implying he can't hit 20+ yard passes "at all" please define that for me... just off the top of my head, I can think of a deep one to Bruce and Morgan, and about 2-3 TDs to VD. That is this year. I know a lot of people expect eevery pass to catch the reciever in stride, and the perfect pass, but if you really watch a lot of football, many long passes are not very accurate. Often, the reciever makes a great play or they are just that wide open, they can recover from a throw that is slightly off. Unfortunately, we do not have a reciever that can make those great, awkward catches that make QB's look great. Now, I am not talking about Manning because he is in a league of his own, wehre almsot every pass is 100% accurate...

I will admit though that his passes this year have been more off-target than in year's past...
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by Sugatis:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.

Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

We have basically the same personnel on O, but Hill's stats are remarkably lower this year. You could blame that on Martz pass-happy offense, but we are talking about %'s and ratings, something that would not be affected by passing a lot or passing a little. The only thing to change with our offense is the playcalling. I mean what is it?

The order of the playcalling?
the lack of plays developing?
the plays themselves?

Or have defenses supposedly just "figured out" Hill as many doubters thought they would? I would like to see how our offense would have done with Martz this year, relative to how we have done so far...

I mean, am I imagining things, or do we have the exact same offensive pieces as last year? The only difference this year is playcalling...

DEF know all they have to do is load the box and cover the short throws literally MAKE hill throw down field as he has NO accuracy at all +20 yards - playcalling is not helping but Hill is just not a starter in this league - you can't win in today's NFL with a limited QB - it is just not possible to be an Elite team with that model.

NO ACCuracy at all??? While I am sure your being sarcastic when implying he can't hit 20+ yard passes "at all" please define that for me... just off the top of my head, I can think of a deep one to Bruce and Morgan, and about 2-3 TDs to VD. That is this year. I know a lot of people expect eevery pass to catch the reciever in stride, and the perfect pass, but if you really watch a lot of football, many long passes are not very accurate. Often, the reciever makes a great play or they are just that wide open, they can recover from a throw that is slightly off. Unfortunately, we do not have a reciever that can make those great, awkward catches that make QB's look great. Now, I am not talking about Manning because he is in a league of his own, wehre almsot every pass is 100% accurate...

I will admit though that his passes this year have been more off-target than in year's past...

I think he is just throwing out hyperbole, we all know that Hill is fairly accurate usually.
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.

Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

We have basically the same personnel on O, but Hill's stats are remarkably lower this year. You could blame that on Martz pass-happy offense, but we are talking about %'s and ratings, something that would not be affected by passing a lot or passing a little. The only thing to change with our offense is the playcalling. I mean what is it?

The order of the playcalling?
the lack of plays developing?
the plays themselves?

Or have defenses supposedly just "figured out" Hill as many doubters thought they would? I would like to see how our offense would have done with Martz this year, relative to how we have done so far...

I mean, am I imagining things, or do we have the exact same offensive pieces as last year? The only difference this year is playcalling...

I would say that's it along with continued crappy O-line play.Someone mentioned Hill is not allowed to audible-if true it tells me Sing/Raye do not have a whole lot of confidence in him
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.

Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

We have basically the same personnel on O, but Hill's stats are remarkably lower this year. You could blame that on Martz pass-happy offense, but we are talking about %'s and ratings, something that would not be affected by passing a lot or passing a little. The only thing to change with our offense is the playcalling. I mean what is it?

The order of the playcalling?
the lack of plays developing?
the plays themselves?

Or have defenses supposedly just "figured out" Hill as many doubters thought they would? I would like to see how our offense would have done with Martz this year, relative to how we have done so far...

I mean, am I imagining things, or do we have the exact same offensive pieces as last year? The only difference this year is playcalling...

I would say that's it along with continued crappy O-line play.Someone mentioned Hill is not allowed to audible-if true it tells me Sing/Raye do not have a whole lot of confidence in him

It is not true that Hill isn't allowed to audible, I posted a link awhile back from an ESPN interview with Hill where he claims to have complete freedom to audible in this offense, he lists it as a reason that he likes Raye's offense better than Martz's. There are a couple of guys whose theory that didn't mesh with, so they started spreading misinformation so their Hillusions weren't exposed to the harsh light of reality and fact.
Originally posted by chico49erfan:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
well i just like the article itself because Tim K, used to rip into smith back in the day, and he's finally not being biased and writing bout the facts of Hill behind center with stats.

HOw can anyone read this article, and not feel that Hill is at least some of the blame for the failing offense. Just like tim said, when he does have time to throw, and thats what concerns me. when he does have time and the ol allows him, the decisions that he makes.

Hey brother Afrikan, or JoeCool, that i havent heard from in a while. You two guys look at this article with some stats, and let me know if HIll doesnt deserve almost just as much to blame in a failing offense than the OL


The whole offense deserves blame. The interesting thing about the article is he states all the bad stats yet still feels Hill is the best QB on the team. It shows he really has no respect for the guys behind Hill. Bottom line is Hill is still the starter on this team. If he begins turning the ball over via fumbles and interceptions, I would expect a change. If he continues to play like he has, I don't think there will be a change.

Of course the whole offense deserves blame, but i have to ask you brotha. Forget about Davis or smith for a second. Lets just look at HIll. So far in the wins and losses category we know some things now. So far THIS SEASON, we are 3-2. His undefeated home game skid is over, and so far, he has not produced greatly in the two losses, really in the wins for that matter, had it not been for the running game. I say there will be a QB change if and i mean if 2 of these things happen.

1. In my opinion, if we lose 2 out of the next 3 games, and he doesnt at least go for over 250 +yds, or more than 2TD's in each of these games through the air, then he will be benched. I say that only because it would have proved one thing. That HIll is only successful against failing teams with losing records.

2. For this reason talked about by Matt M, and Cossell of NFL films who Matt stated has tons of credibility;

Matt M: On the other side of the ball, the 49ers have some problems, don't they?

Cosell: "The one thing fans might not realize is that coaches know exactly what their players can and can't do. If a team gets down, like the Niners, and they can't throw to get back in the game and fans go, 'Oh, my, they can't throw!' Well, the 49ers know that, too. They can't play in those kinds of games. They can't win those kinds of games. They have to play in games where their defense keeps the game close, so their offense can run the ball. I think (Shaun) Hill has had some nice moments this year. I thought his (fourth-quarter) drive against Arizona Week 1 was very, very good. I have some problems with the way Arizona chose to play defense on that drive, but you still have to make the throws. Same with Minnesota. I thought Hill made some very good throws. I thought Minnesota had some problems with playing their coverages and the responsibilities within those coverages, but you still have to make the throws. But at the end of the day, Hill is not going to be a guy who's going to consistently drop back and make throw after throw after throw to either keep you in games or win games."


The bolded part stood out in my mind, because Hill has definitely produced, but has it been enough for our team.

Probably not. But Singletary runs this team which means turnovers are more important to him than QB stats.

The 3 and Outs that are quickly piling up should be the most important issue in deciding whether or not Hill is the man under Center.

I will continue to point this out until Hill fixes the issue or until he's riding the pine. I certainly wish that I had Coach's ear. Cause imho ball control is great when you have consistency moving the ball. When you don't then ball control doesn't mean diddly.

~Ceadder

If your O-Line doesn't allow for any protection or provide any running holes... If your WRs can't get any separation from the CBs... If your QB can't throw the ball deep enough to keep defenses honest... If your offensive coordinator is so predictable it hurts the team's chance to win the game...

Dude do you THINK that might all have to do with the QB? If the Opposing teams don't respect his arm?

~Ceadder
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.
Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

I understand the argument...but ask Rodgers about playing behind a garbage Oline....He's still winning games and putting up good numbers...or ask Rothlisberger about Garbage Olines...oh yeah he won the superbowl despite the poor play upfront. I undestand it takes the whole unit in order to be successful but...good QB's can make plays despite the obstacles...face it Hill does not fit in that category....

Preach on brotha. I say the exact same thing, and i'm including stats. i wanna put that bad o-line all their fault excuse to rest right now, by showing qb's with the most sacks, their record, and their td, and yards;

Top leaders in Sacks which means horrible o-lines, like our fans say, so i'm using our own reasons that it's all the o-line to see if any other teams are being productive while gettin sacked all the time.

1. Rodgers: 25 sacks, 8tds, 1456 yards, 291.2yds game., rating, 104.1, record 3-2
2. Big Ben : 16 sacks, 10tds, 1887yds, 314.5yds game, rating 104.5, record 4-2
3. Shaun Hill: 16 sacks, 5tds, 898 yards, 179.6yds game, rating 80.7, record 3-2

Now i used Roth and Rodgers, because they are all on teams with horrible o-lines, and are winning teams just like us. The proof is in the numbers, depite the hurries out the pocket, despite protection breaking down. Big Ben led the league in getting sacked last year with 46, but hmmmm, didnt they win the superbowl. I'm just saying lets stop with all the o-line excuses. and it's all the 0line.

yes hill has produced as i will continue to say, but i dont think he's done enough for our team to be successful. Good QB's make the throws and the plays even when the line breaks down, as you can see above.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.
Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

I understand the argument...but ask Rodgers about playing behind a garbage Oline....He's still winning games and putting up good numbers...or ask Rothlisberger about Garbage Olines...oh yeah he won the superbowl despite the poor play upfront. I undestand it takes the whole unit in order to be successful but...good QB's can make plays despite the obstacles...face it Hill does not fit in that category....

Preach on brotha. I say the exact same thing, and i'm including stats. i wanna put that bad o-line all their fault excuse to rest right now, by showing qb's with the most sacks, their record, and their td, and yards;

Top leaders in Sacks which means horrible o-lines, like our fans say, so i'm using our own reasons that it's all the o-line to see if any other teams are being productive while gettin sacked all the time.

1. Rodgers: 25 sacks, 8tds, 1456 yards, 291.2yds game., rating, 104.1, record 3-2
2. Big Ben : 16 sacks, 10tds, 1887yds, 314.5yds game, rating 104.5, record 4-2
3. Shaun Hill: 16 sacks, 5tds, 898 yards, 179.6yds game, rating 80.7, record 3-2

Now i used Roth and Rodgers, because they are all on teams with horrible o-lines, and are winning teams just like us. The proof is in the numbers, depite the hurries out the pocket, despite protection breaking down. Big Ben led the league in getting sacked last year with 46, but hmmmm, didnt they win the superbowl. I'm just saying lets stop with all the o-line excuses. and it's all the 0line.

yes hill has produced as i will continue to say, but i dont think he's done enough for our team to be successful. Good QB's make the throws and the plays even when the line breaks down, as you can see above.

Too bad we don't have Rothlisberger or Rodgers. I wouldn't mind having a Manning or a brady either.
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.
Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

I understand the argument...but ask Rodgers about playing behind a garbage Oline....He's still winning games and putting up good numbers...or ask Rothlisberger about Garbage Olines...oh yeah he won the superbowl despite the poor play upfront. I undestand it takes the whole unit in order to be successful but...good QB's can make plays despite the obstacles...face it Hill does not fit in that category....

Preach on brotha. I say the exact same thing, and i'm including stats. i wanna put that bad o-line all their fault excuse to rest right now, by showing qb's with the most sacks, their record, and their td, and yards;

Top leaders in Sacks which means horrible o-lines, like our fans say, so i'm using our own reasons that it's all the o-line to see if any other teams are being productive while gettin sacked all the time.

1. Rodgers: 25 sacks, 8tds, 1456 yards, 291.2yds game., rating, 104.1, record 3-2
2. Big Ben : 16 sacks, 10tds, 1887yds, 314.5yds game, rating 104.5, record 4-2
3. Shaun Hill: 16 sacks, 5tds, 898 yards, 179.6yds game, rating 80.7, record 3-2

Now i used Roth and Rodgers, because they are all on teams with horrible o-lines, and are winning teams just like us. The proof is in the numbers, depite the hurries out the pocket, despite protection breaking down. Big Ben led the league in getting sacked last year with 46, but hmmmm, didnt they win the superbowl. I'm just saying lets stop with all the o-line excuses. and it's all the 0line.

yes hill has produced as i will continue to say, but i dont think he's done enough for our team to be successful. Good QB's make the throws and the plays even when the line breaks down, as you can see above.

Too bad we don't have Rothlisberger or Rodgers. I wouldn't mind having a Manning or a brady either.

Hell no, i wouldnt mind having one of them either. I'm not knocking Hill, just saying he's not putting up what he should, and people need to stop making excuses for him. Those that say a bad o-line is the main reason he is failing is false. it is one of the reasons dont get me wrong, but he is also a part of the problem, thats all im trying to say.

Hill is the starter, and honestly barring injury i want him to finish the entire season. Only because if he played a full season, and is unsuccessful, then i dont think he'll ever start again. And no one can use the excuse not played a full season, or make a winning record over a 4 year span. I just want our team to win. I wasnt too excited with the three wins because i felt that we were gonna win those games. the main game i actually liked was minnesotta, and atlanta. not because we lost both games, but in each game, both teams refused to deal with what we gave them. Both teams had no problem taking advantage of our weaknesses, and know how to succeed in the turnover margin. Which believe it or not, a lot of fans kept saying over the 3 wins that we had, "Lucky they are keeping the door open for us, cause if we played a good team, we'd be getting killed"

We played 2 good teams so far in my opinion, with the exception of the Cards starting to get it back together now. I'm more excited about all the games outside our division because i think thats what truly tells what your team is made of. When a team can take you out of your comfort zone, and you still produce, thats the stuff of champions.

With a week off, this sunday WILL say a whole lot about our team. I just hope and pray that if the offense falters again, people can just say the highlight of the offense is Gore and Crabtree. Not even Davis because for some reason i dont see him producing that much now because i think teams know he's gonna be Hill's no 1 go to guy.
[ Edited by Jersey9er on Oct 20, 2009 at 9:49 AM ]