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Shaun Hill, 1st downs, playoffs-article

Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
well i just like the article itself because Tim K, used to rip into smith back in the day, and he's finally not being biased and writing bout the facts of Hill behind center with stats.

HOw can anyone read this article, and not feel that Hill is at least some of the blame for the failing offense. Just like tim said, when he does have time to throw, and thats what concerns me. when he does have time and the ol allows him, the decisions that he makes.

Hey brother Afrikan, or JoeCool, that i havent heard from in a while. You two guys look at this article with some stats, and let me know if HIll doesnt deserve almost just as much to blame in a failing offense than the OL


The whole offense deserves blame. The interesting thing about the article is he states all the bad stats yet still feels Hill is the best QB on the team. It shows he really has no respect for the guys behind Hill. Bottom line is Hill is still the starter on this team. If he begins turning the ball over via fumbles and interceptions, I would expect a change. If he continues to play like he has, I don't think there will be a change.

Yeah I noticed that too. TK can't bring himself to acknowledge that he COULD be wrong about another QB that is on the team. That would be waaaaaaaay to demeaning to his status as a Sports Writer.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
well i just like the article itself because Tim K, used to rip into smith back in the day, and he's finally not being biased and writing bout the facts of Hill behind center with stats.

HOw can anyone read this article, and not feel that Hill is at least some of the blame for the failing offense. Just like tim said, when he does have time to throw, and thats what concerns me. when he does have time and the ol allows him, the decisions that he makes.

Hey brother Afrikan, or JoeCool, that i havent heard from in a while. You two guys look at this article with some stats, and let me know if HIll doesnt deserve almost just as much to blame in a failing offense than the OL


The whole offense deserves blame. The interesting thing about the article is he states all the bad stats yet still feels Hill is the best QB on the team. It shows he really has no respect for the guys behind Hill. Bottom line is Hill is still the starter on this team. If he begins turning the ball over via fumbles and interceptions, I would expect a change. If he continues to play like he has, I don't think there will be a change.

Of course the whole offense deserves blame, but i have to ask you brotha. Forget about Davis or smith for a second. Lets just look at HIll. So far in the wins and losses category we know some things now. So far THIS SEASON, we are 3-2. His undefeated home game skid is over, and so far, he has not produced greatly in the two losses, really in the wins for that matter, had it not been for the running game. I say there will be a QB change if and i mean if 2 of these things happen.

1. In my opinion, if we lose 2 out of the next 3 games, and he doesnt at least go for over 250 +yds, or more than 2TD's in each of these games through the air, then he will be benched. I say that only because it would have proved one thing. That HIll is only successful against failing teams with losing records.

2. For this reason talked about by Matt M, and Cossell of NFL films who Matt stated has tons of credibility;

Matt M: On the other side of the ball, the 49ers have some problems, don't they?

Cosell: "The one thing fans might not realize is that coaches know exactly what their players can and can't do. If a team gets down, like the Niners, and they can't throw to get back in the game and fans go, 'Oh, my, they can't throw!' Well, the 49ers know that, too. They can't play in those kinds of games. They can't win those kinds of games. They have to play in games where their defense keeps the game close, so their offense can run the ball. I think (Shaun) Hill has had some nice moments this year. I thought his (fourth-quarter) drive against Arizona Week 1 was very, very good. I have some problems with the way Arizona chose to play defense on that drive, but you still have to make the throws. Same with Minnesota. I thought Hill made some very good throws. I thought Minnesota had some problems with playing their coverages and the responsibilities within those coverages, but you still have to make the throws. But at the end of the day, Hill is not going to be a guy who's going to consistently drop back and make throw after throw after throw to either keep you in games or win games."


The bolded part stood out in my mind, because Hill has definitely produced, but has it been enough for our team.

Probably not. But Singletary runs this team which means turnovers are more important to him than QB stats.

The 3 and Outs that are quickly piling up should be the most important issue in deciding whether or not Hill is the man under Center.

I will continue to point this out until Hill fixes the issue or until he's riding the pine. I certainly wish that I had Coach's ear. Cause imho ball control is great when you have consistency moving the ball. When you don't then ball control doesn't mean diddly.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
well i just like the article itself because Tim K, used to rip into smith back in the day, and he's finally not being biased and writing bout the facts of Hill behind center with stats.

HOw can anyone read this article, and not feel that Hill is at least some of the blame for the failing offense. Just like tim said, when he does have time to throw, and thats what concerns me. when he does have time and the ol allows him, the decisions that he makes.

Hey brother Afrikan, or JoeCool, that i havent heard from in a while. You two guys look at this article with some stats, and let me know if HIll doesnt deserve almost just as much to blame in a failing offense than the OL


The whole offense deserves blame. The interesting thing about the article is he states all the bad stats yet still feels Hill is the best QB on the team. It shows he really has no respect for the guys behind Hill. Bottom line is Hill is still the starter on this team. If he begins turning the ball over via fumbles and interceptions, I would expect a change. If he continues to play like he has, I don't think there will be a change.

Of course the whole offense deserves blame, but i have to ask you brotha. Forget about Davis or smith for a second. Lets just look at HIll. So far in the wins and losses category we know some things now. So far THIS SEASON, we are 3-2. His undefeated home game skid is over, and so far, he has not produced greatly in the two losses, really in the wins for that matter, had it not been for the running game. I say there will be a QB change if and i mean if 2 of these things happen.

1. In my opinion, if we lose 2 out of the next 3 games, and he doesnt at least go for over 250 +yds, or more than 2TD's in each of these games through the air, then he will be benched. I say that only because it would have proved one thing. That HIll is only successful against failing teams with losing records.

2. For this reason talked about by Matt M, and Cossell of NFL films who Matt stated has tons of credibility;

Matt M: On the other side of the ball, the 49ers have some problems, don't they?

Cosell: "The one thing fans might not realize is that coaches know exactly what their players can and can't do. If a team gets down, like the Niners, and they can't throw to get back in the game and fans go, 'Oh, my, they can't throw!' Well, the 49ers know that, too. They can't play in those kinds of games. They can't win those kinds of games. They have to play in games where their defense keeps the game close, so their offense can run the ball. I think (Shaun) Hill has had some nice moments this year. I thought his (fourth-quarter) drive against Arizona Week 1 was very, very good. I have some problems with the way Arizona chose to play defense on that drive, but you still have to make the throws. Same with Minnesota. I thought Hill made some very good throws. I thought Minnesota had some problems with playing their coverages and the responsibilities within those coverages, but you still have to make the throws. But at the end of the day, Hill is not going to be a guy who's going to consistently drop back and make throw after throw after throw to either keep you in games or win games."


The bolded part stood out in my mind, because Hill has definitely produced, but has it been enough for our team.

Probably not. But Singletary runs this team which means turnovers are more important to him than QB stats.

The 3 and Outs that are quickly piling up should be the most important issue in deciding whether or not Hill is the man under Center.

I will continue to point this out until Hill fixes the issue or until he's riding the pine. I certainly wish that I had Coach's ear. Cause imho ball control is great when you have consistency moving the ball. When you don't then ball control doesn't mean diddly.

~Ceadder

If your O-Line doesn't allow for any protection or provide any running holes... If your WRs can't get any separation from the CBs... If your QB can't throw the ball deep enough to keep defenses honest... If your offensive coordinator is so predictable it hurts the team's chance to win the game...
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hmm, let's see, Hill was solid in the league on 3rd down percentage and overall QBing under Martz, who called the deeper passes but now he can't convert a 3rd down?

I wonder if the OC has anything to do with it because whenever Hill has been let loose with decent time, he's produced, even this year.

The most important words in that sentence are with decent time!!

Nah, i think the most important words are last year. Cant we just erase last year, and focus on this year. Martz is old news and we have raye now, if anything it's funny because maybe not you two guys, but soo many said how well Hill would of excelled in this offense because it is soo basic. most were calling for martz'z head with his stubborness to never run the ball that much. Now we have the opposite, that may not pass the ball as much.

Either way, i just wish we could focus on this year, and the oc, and oline, and overall, just team of this year. Sing said what happens in the past is there, and i dont think about it ever again. Is that soo hard for us to do?
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hmm, let's see, Hill was solid in the league on 3rd down percentage and overall QBing under Martz, who called the deeper passes but now he can't convert a 3rd down?

I wonder if the OC has anything to do with it because whenever Hill has been let loose with decent time, he's produced, even this year.

The most important words in that sentence are with decent time!!

Nah, i think the most important words are last year. Cant we just erase last year, and focus on this year. Martz is old news and we have raye now, if anything it's funny because maybe not you two guys, but soo many said how well Hill would of excelled in this offense because it is soo basic. most were calling for martz'z head with his stubborness to never run the ball that much. Now we have the opposite, that may not pass the ball as much.

Either way, i just wish we could focus on this year, and the oc, and oline, and overall, just team of this year. Sing said what happens in the past is there, and i dont think about it ever again. Is that soo hard for us to do?

That's right!!! Alex Smith was so 2006. Let's go Hill! Let's go Niners!!!
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hmm, let's see, Hill was solid in the league on 3rd down percentage and overall QBing under Martz, who called the deeper passes but now he can't convert a 3rd down?

I wonder if the OC has anything to do with it because whenever Hill has been let loose with decent time, he's produced, even this year.

The most important words in that sentence are with decent time!!

Nah, i think the most important words are LAST YEAR. Cant we just erase last year, and focus on this year. Martz is old news and we have raye now, if anything it's funny because maybe not you two guys, but soo many said how well Hill would of excelled in this offense because it is soo basic. most were calling for martz'z head with his stubborness to never run the ball that much. Now we have the opposite, that may not pass the ball as much.

Either way, i just wish we could focus on this year, and the oc, and oline, and overall, just team of this year. Sing said what happens in the past is there, and i dont think about it ever again. Is that soo hard for us to do?

That's right!!! Alex Smith was so 2006. Let's go Hill! Let's go Niners!!!

Now you know better than that. whether smith, huard, davis, or hill. Please dont even mention smith, i was tryna keep this smith free because HIll is our starter now this year. And this is 09, so i said can we move on and forget last year which was 08, not 06. I dont even know why you went back to 06.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hmm, let's see, Hill was solid in the league on 3rd down percentage and overall QBing under Martz, who called the deeper passes but now he can't convert a 3rd down?

I wonder if the OC has anything to do with it because whenever Hill has been let loose with decent time, he's produced, even this year.

The most important words in that sentence are with decent time!!

Nah, i think the most important words are LAST YEAR. Cant we just erase last year, and focus on this year. Martz is old news and we have raye now, if anything it's funny because maybe not you two guys, but soo many said how well Hill would of excelled in this offense because it is soo basic. most were calling for martz'z head with his stubborness to never run the ball that much. Now we have the opposite, that may not pass the ball as much.

Either way, i just wish we could focus on this year, and the oc, and oline, and overall, just team of this year. Sing said what happens in the past is there, and i dont think about it ever again. Is that soo hard for us to do?

That's right!!! Alex Smith was so 2006. Let's go Hill! Let's go Niners!!!

Now you know better than that. whether smith, huard, davis, or hill. Please dont even mention smith, i was tryna keep this smith free because HIll is our starter now this year. And this is 09, so i said can we move on and forget last year which was 08, not 06. I dont even know why you went back to 06.

I'm sorry. I had a weak moment. Strike that last comment from the record.
As much as I understand the notion to blame Hill for our 3rd down %, does anyone know how our average third down yardage ranks against the league?
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by 49ers1fan1982:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hmm, let's see, Hill was solid in the league on 3rd down percentage and overall QBing under Martz, who called the deeper passes but now he can't convert a 3rd down?

I wonder if the OC has anything to do with it because whenever Hill has been let loose with decent time, he's produced, even this year.

The most important words in that sentence are with decent time!!

Nah, i think the most important words are last year. Cant we just erase last year, and focus on this year. Martz is old news and we have raye now, if anything it's funny because maybe not you two guys, but soo many said how well Hill would of excelled in this offense because it is soo basic. most were calling for martz'z head with his stubborness to never run the ball that much. Now we have the opposite, that may not pass the ball as much.

Either way, i just wish we could focus on this year, and the oc, and oline, and overall, just team of this year. Sing said what happens in the past is there, and i dont think about it ever again. Is that soo hard for us to do?

That's right!!! Alex Smith was so 2006. Let's go Hill! Let's go Niners!!!

Well it's Hill's own fault that the OC sucks considering he helped in getting Martz fired, ripped him during TC, and wanted to play in an offense where he had to throw the ball less and was more in his own comfort zone. You're like "well under Martz Hill was awesome, blah blah blah blah blah, Shaun was so good making first downs everywhere, blah blah blah blah", but if you honestly think that Martz would've been fired had Hill stuck up for him and said to keep him than you're crazy. Everyone pretty much knew Shaun was probably going to be the starting QB, including Singletary, he would've kept the guy his QB felt most comfortable playing for but Shaun was one of the people who pushed Martz out, and then claimed he liked the Raye offense better because he can audible and change things. So it's his own fault he's playing under Raye.
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.
Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

I understand the argument...but ask Rodgers about playing behind a garbage Oline....He's still winning games and putting up good numbers...or ask Rothlisberger about Garbage Olines...oh yeah he won the superbowl despite the poor play upfront. I undestand it takes the whole unit in order to be successful but...good QB's can make plays despite the obstacles...face it Hill does not fit in that category....
[ Edited by Ninerbowl6 on Oct 19, 2009 at 9:16 AM ]
Originally posted by matt49er:
If the OL sucks how can anyone expect Hill to make the throws? give him protection and give the OL some running room and this would be a very good offense. VD is playing very well and Gore is an elite back, we have a decent WR crew now and with B.Jones and Crabtree added to the mix we are not absent of playmakers. the OL is the entire key not Hill

That's exactly right, well said.
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.
Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

I understand the argument...but ask Rodgers about playing behind a garbage Oline....He's still winning games and putting up good numbers...or ask Rothlisberger about Garbage Olines...oh yeah he won the superbowl despite the poor play upfront. I undestand it takes the whole unit in order to be successful but...good QB's can make plays despite the obstacles...face it Hill does not fit in that category....

I was Roethlisberger with 6 seconds to throw yesterday, he got a touchdown, I wish Hill had 6 seconds to throw...
[ Edited by MSteitz468 on Oct 19, 2009 at 10:43 AM ]
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.
Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

I understand the argument...but ask Rodgers about playing behind a garbage Oline....He's still winning games and putting up good numbers...or ask Rothlisberger about Garbage Olines...oh yeah he won the superbowl despite the poor play upfront. I undestand it takes the whole unit in order to be successful but...good QB's can make plays despite the obstacles...face it Hill does not fit in that category....

I was Roethlisberger with 6 seconds to throw yesterday, he got a touchdown, I wish Hill had 6 seconds to throw...

Probably would throw it underneath for 7 yards when we needed 10 for the first down.
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by NinerFaithful:
We need to bring back Jeff Garica, even at his age he's better than all our QB combined.He has valuable experience and a former pro-bowler, he can take the reins until next years draft or until Davis or Smith mature.

that's what you got out of that article? how bizarre.

it tells me a lot about sing that, he has no clue about Offenses, cuz he said that Garcia not much of unupgrade from hill. Then again i don't think Tom Brady will not do well behind our OL.
Ray is the problem and the OL , Hill will give less cuz of his arm. he had a weak arm last year, hill won with his weak ass arm last year , this year but not with this week ass play calling and OL.

I understand the argument...but ask Rodgers about playing behind a garbage Oline....He's still winning games and putting up good numbers...or ask Rothlisberger about Garbage Olines...oh yeah he won the superbowl despite the poor play upfront. I undestand it takes the whole unit in order to be successful but...good QB's can make plays despite the obstacles...face it Hill does not fit in that category....

I was Roethlisberger with 6 seconds to throw yesterday, he got a touchdown, I wish Hill had 6 seconds to throw...

Probably would throw it underneath for 7 yards when we needed 10 for the first down.

I kow it cracks me up when PEOPLE IGNORE THE FACT THAT EVEN WHEN HE HAS TIME he makes s**tty decisions and throws it underneath! Everyone is quick to bash the wrs and Raye but come on.... are people that (insert word) Hill hurts the team more than helps GHTFO
[ Edited by ninersrule4 on Oct 19, 2009 at 10:54 AM ]
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Originally posted by matt49er:
If the OL sucks how can anyone expect Hill to make the throws? give him protection and give the OL some running room and this would be a very good offense. VD is playing very well and Gore is an elite back, we have a decent WR crew now and with B.Jones and Crabtree added to the mix we are not absent of playmakers. the OL is the entire key not Hill

That's exactly right, well said.

If you're a good QB, you should be able to make throws under pressure right?

I'm concerned that Hill can't even make great throws sometimes when he has all day. Because even scrubs can do that when they have long. Hill not doing so.. well.. That's disturbing.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Oct 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM ]