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Shaun Hill, 1st downs, playoffs-article

Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by susweel:
Don't worry guys Crabgreed will fix all the problems on offense.

Is he going to show Hill how to improve his arm strength, maybe how to throw a spiral so he can get the ball in the passing window? Maybe he will show Shaun how to regain his pocket presence, or how to escape the rush and not just step into the sack. At least he can run bubble screens so Hill can get some passing yards without having to actually try to hit routes down the field.

Do you feel like he was doing a lot more with his feet last year? Cause I feel like he is basically standing in place this year...

I feel like his general level of play has regressed. I think he is feeling the pressure that wasn't there last year when he was coming in trying to save a season. This is what I have been saying for months now, and for speaking the truth I get labeled as a Hill hater or a Smith lover, when the fact is I care about this team, not any one player over another. I just feel that Smith is the better QB, and that given the chance with this roster, he would do better. There is no denying that he has the better skill set than Hill, all he needs is the experience and a chance to develop with a coaching staff that knows somewhat better than Nolans, how to develop talent. Anyone that thinks Hill has more natural talent than Smith is just being hard headed. You guys that just "Smith Sucks" need to wake up and realize that the circumstances, as well as the roster on this team are much different than when Smith last played. I don't hate Hill, I am happy to have a quality back up like him on the team, but the plain fact of it is that the guy limits what the offense can do, and unless he magically gets a stronger arm, and learns after 8 years to throw a spiral so he can fit passes into tight passing windows, he will never lead us anywhere but to a first round playoff loss.
[ Edited by Memphis9er on Oct 17, 2009 at 6:08 PM ]
I agree with you Memphis 100%. I got Hill's back but he's losing my confidence
Originally posted by teeohh:
I agree with you Memphis 100%. I got Hill's back but he's losing my confidence

I agree with you both, I never felt Hill was a long term solution to a QB we need now. His side arm throw and his inability to get rid of the ball quick enough has really hampered the offense. Not to mention his love of Isaac Bruce who seems to drop more passes than catch em. As for Smith, how quickly everyone forgets how much better he looked when Norv was our O-coordinator, but can you blame him for struggling with 3 O-coordinators in 3 years????? Come on, that's ridiculous!!!!! Hill's play has declined steadily and I don't see him taking the team to the playoffs especially if Gore's our only form of offense. We'd be no better than the Vikings last year with AP dealing with 8 in the box and T. Jackson as QB. So I say do what's best for the team, not just the player....and right about now, Garcia would be a hell of a pickup and perhaps even a huge turnaround for us
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
I've taken ALOT of heat for saying the exact same things that Kawakami is saying. It's all good. I never expect people to listen. Would be nice but not expected.

Though of course I couldn't provide the satistical analysis that TK did.

Hmmmm disregard this post since it could be deemed patting myself on the back.

~Ceadder

It's the statistics.

-9fA
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Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by susweel:
Don't worry guys Crabgreed will fix all the problems on offense.

Is he going to show Hill how to improve his arm strength, maybe how to throw a spiral so he can get the ball in the passing window? Maybe he will show Shaun how to regain his pocket presence, or how to escape the rush and not just step into the sack. At least he can run bubble screens so Hill can get some passing yards without having to actually try to hit routes down the field.

Do you feel like he was doing a lot more with his feet last year? Cause I feel like he is basically standing in place this year...

I feel like his general level of play has regressed. I think he is feeling the pressure that wasn't there last year when he was coming in trying to save a season. This is what I have been saying for months now, and for speaking the truth I get labeled as a Hill hater or a Smith lover, when the fact is I care about this team, not any one player over another. I just feel that Smith is the better QB, and that given the chance with this roster, he would do better. There is no denying that he has the better skill set than Hill, all he needs is the experience and a chance to develop with a coaching staff that knows somewhat better than Nolans, how to develop talent. Anyone that thinks Hill has more natural talent than Smith is just being hard headed. You guys that just "Smith Sucks" need to wake up and realize that the circumstances, as well as the roster on this team are much different than when Smith last played. I don't hate Hill, I am happy to have a quality back up like him on the team, but the plain fact of it is that the guy limits what the offense can do, and unless he magically gets a stronger arm, and learns after 8 years to throw a spiral so he can fit passes into tight passing windows, he will never lead us anywhere but to a first round playoff loss.

I agree. The QB isn't asked to do much in this offense, so can Alex Smith really make the offense any worse than it is? I would argue that he can only improve it.
Originally posted by job2436:
Originally posted by teeohh:
I agree with you Memphis 100%. I got Hill's back but he's losing my confidence

I agree with you both, I never felt Hill was a long term solution to a QB we need now. His side arm throw and his inability to get rid of the ball quick enough has really hampered the offense. Not to mention his love of Isaac Bruce who seems to drop more passes than catch em. As for Smith, how quickly everyone forgets how much better he looked when Norv was our O-coordinator, but can you blame him for struggling with 3 O-coordinators in 3 years????? Come on, that's ridiculous!!!!! Hill's play has declined steadily and I don't see him taking the team to the playoffs especially if Gore's our only form of offense. We'd be no better than the Vikings last year with AP dealing with 8 in the box and T. Jackson as QB. So I say do what's best for the team, not just the player....and right about now, Garcia would be a hell of a pickup and perhaps even a huge turnaround for us

That's a great analogy.

And just like the Vikings, if we do make the playoffs and if our defense doesn't play lights out, we're going to be one and done.

-9fA
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by susweel:
Don't worry guys Crabgreed will fix all the problems on offense.

Is he going to show Hill how to improve his arm strength, maybe how to throw a spiral so he can get the ball in the passing window? Maybe he will show Shaun how to regain his pocket presence, or how to escape the rush and not just step into the sack. At least he can run bubble screens so Hill can get some passing yards without having to actually try to hit routes down the field.

Do you feel like he was doing a lot more with his feet last year? Cause I feel like he is basically standing in place this year...

I feel like his general level of play has regressed. I think he is feeling the pressure that wasn't there last year when he was coming in trying to save a season. This is what I have been saying for months now, and for speaking the truth I get labeled as a Hill hater or a Smith lover, when the fact is I care about this team, not any one player over another. I just feel that Smith is the better QB, and that given the chance with this roster, he would do better. There is no denying that he has the better skill set than Hill, all he needs is the experience and a chance to develop with a coaching staff that knows somewhat better than Nolans, how to develop talent. Anyone that thinks Hill has more natural talent than Smith is just being hard headed. You guys that just "Smith Sucks" need to wake up and realize that the circumstances, as well as the roster on this team are much different than when Smith last played. I don't hate Hill, I am happy to have a quality back up like him on the team, but the plain fact of it is that the guy limits what the offense can do, and unless he magically gets a stronger arm, and learns after 8 years to throw a spiral so he can fit passes into tight passing windows, he will never lead us anywhere but to a first round playoff loss.

Well said.
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Wow that's more stark than i thought it was.

There's no hiding that Hill's play has tremendously dipped since last year.

I'm getting more and more inclined to drafting another franchise QB.

-9fA

Can we try Smith and see what we have in Davis before we do that?

If the offense doesn't imporve, I think this is what Singletary needs to do. Try Smith, and if that doesn't work see what Davis can do. At least then the Niners will have a feel for what needs to be done before next season.

I really want to see what Smith can do with this team over 5-6 games. Both for this year and the future... Davis SHOULD NOT get into any game this year unless both Hill and Smith are unavailable or of the playoffs are 100% out of reach. I'm hoping neither of those things happen.

No way man. Our O-line is much too soft. Smith is supposedly healthy now, but how long do you think his shoulder is going to hold out when he's getting sacked or taking hard hits 6-7 times a game? Not for long. Smith needs to stay at the backup spot while Davis gets some experience and prepares for next year.
[ Edited by SanFranAddic on Oct 17, 2009 at 8:00 PM ]
If the OL sucks how can anyone expect Hill to make the throws? give him protection and give the OL some running room and this would be a very good offense. VD is playing very well and Gore is an elite back, we have a decent WR crew now and with B.Jones and Crabtree added to the mix we are not absent of playmakers. the OL is the entire key not Hill
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Wow that's more stark than i thought it was.

There's no hiding that Hill's play has tremendously dipped since last year.

I'm getting more and more inclined to drafting another franchise QB.

-9fA

Can we try Smith and see what we have in Davis before we do that?

If the offense doesn't imporve, I think this is what Singletary needs to do. Try Smith, and if that doesn't work see what Davis can do. At least then the Niners will have a feel for what needs to be done before next season.

No way don't try Smith he suck just put Davis in and see what he does n see if we need to draft a Qb next season. Smith needs to b traded or released after this year along with Hill!

I see, so your answer is just to completely disregard the depth chart and go right for door number 3. Damn good thing that this ain't Madden 1 million and you ain't the HC of the 9ers.

Don't get mad I'm just sayin is all.

~Ceadder

Unfortunately you don't realize that smith ain't worth a dam and our best qb in the depth chart is Davis ur just as senile as Al Davis it's incredible. I don't play madden don't waste my time in playing games. Then u wonder y we have sucked since 2002 with the Qb's we have had lol be realistic smith is done as a 49er!

Don't get mad I'm just sayin how it is!
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Wow that's more stark than i thought it was.

There's no hiding that Hill's play has tremendously dipped since last year.

I'm getting more and more inclined to drafting another franchise QB.

-9fA

Can we try Smith and see what we have in Davis before we do that?

If the offense doesn't imporve, I think this is what Singletary needs to do. Try Smith, and if that doesn't work see what Davis can do. At least then the Niners will have a feel for what needs to be done before next season.

No way don't try Smith he suck just put Davis in and see what he does n see if we need to draft a Qb next season. Smith needs to b traded or released after this year along with Hill!

I see, so your answer is just to completely disregard the depth chart and go right for door number 3. Damn good thing that this ain't Madden 1 million and you ain't the HC of the 9ers.

Don't get mad I'm just sayin is all.

~Ceadder

Unfortunately you don't realize that smith ain't worth a dam and our best qb in the depth chart is Davis ur just as senile as Al Davis it's incredible. I don't play madden don't waste my time in playing games. Then u wonder y we have sucked since 2002 with the Qb's we have had lol be realistic smith is done as a 49er!

Don't get mad I'm just sayin how it is!

well i just like the article itself because Tim K, used to rip into smith back in the day, and he's finally not being biased and writing bout the facts of Hill behind center with stats.

HOw can anyone read this article, and not feel that Hill is at least some of the blame for the failing offense. Just like tim said, when he does have time to throw, and thats what concerns me. when he does have time and the ol allows him, the decisions that he makes.

Hey brother Afrikan, or JoeCool, that i havent heard from in a while. You two guys look at this article with some stats, and let me know if HIll doesnt deserve almost just as much to blame in a failing offense than the OL
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
well i just like the article itself because Tim K, used to rip into smith back in the day, and he's finally not being biased and writing bout the facts of Hill behind center with stats.

HOw can anyone read this article, and not feel that Hill is at least some of the blame for the failing offense. Just like tim said, when he does have time to throw, and thats what concerns me. when he does have time and the ol allows him, the decisions that he makes.

Hey brother Afrikan, or JoeCool, that i havent heard from in a while. You two guys look at this article with some stats, and let me know if HIll doesnt deserve almost just as much to blame in a failing offense than the OL


The whole offense deserves blame. The interesting thing about the article is he states all the bad stats yet still feels Hill is the best QB on the team. It shows he really has no respect for the guys behind Hill. Bottom line is Hill is still the starter on this team. If he begins turning the ball over via fumbles and interceptions, I would expect a change. If he continues to play like he has, I don't think there will be a change.
[ Edited by dirtysouthniner on Oct 18, 2009 at 6:16 AM ]
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
well i just like the article itself because Tim K, used to rip into smith back in the day, and he's finally not being biased and writing bout the facts of Hill behind center with stats.

HOw can anyone read this article, and not feel that Hill is at least some of the blame for the failing offense. Just like tim said, when he does have time to throw, and thats what concerns me. when he does have time and the ol allows him, the decisions that he makes.

Hey brother Afrikan, or JoeCool, that i havent heard from in a while. You two guys look at this article with some stats, and let me know if HIll doesnt deserve almost just as much to blame in a failing offense than the OL


The whole offense deserves blame. The interesting thing about the article is he states all the bad stats yet still feels Hill is the best QB on the team. It shows he really has no respect for the guys behind Hill. Bottom line is Hill is still the starter on this team. If he begins turning the ball over via fumbles and interceptions, I would expect a change. If he continues to play like he has, I don't think there will be a change.

Of course the whole offense deserves blame, but i have to ask you brotha. Forget about Davis or smith for a second. Lets just look at HIll. So far in the wins and losses category we know some things now. So far THIS SEASON, we are 3-2. His undefeated home game skid is over, and so far, he has not produced greatly in the two losses, really in the wins for that matter, had it not been for the running game. I say there will be a QB change if and i mean if 2 of these things happen.

1. In my opinion, if we lose 2 out of the next 3 games, and he doesnt at least go for over 250 +yds, or more than 2TD's in each of these games through the air, then he will be benched. I say that only because it would have proved one thing. That HIll is only successful against failing teams with losing records.

2. For this reason talked about by Matt M, and Cossell of NFL films who Matt stated has tons of credibility;

Matt M: On the other side of the ball, the 49ers have some problems, don't they?

Cosell: "The one thing fans might not realize is that coaches know exactly what their players can and can't do. If a team gets down, like the Niners, and they can't throw to get back in the game and fans go, 'Oh, my, they can't throw!' Well, the 49ers know that, too. They can't play in those kinds of games. They can't win those kinds of games. They have to play in games where their defense keeps the game close, so their offense can run the ball. I think (Shaun) Hill has had some nice moments this year. I thought his (fourth-quarter) drive against Arizona Week 1 was very, very good. I have some problems with the way Arizona chose to play defense on that drive, but you still have to make the throws. Same with Minnesota. I thought Hill made some very good throws. I thought Minnesota had some problems with playing their coverages and the responsibilities within those coverages, but you still have to make the throws. But at the end of the day, Hill is not going to be a guy who's going to consistently drop back and make throw after throw after throw to either keep you in games or win games."


The bolded part stood out in my mind, because Hill has definitely produced, but has it been enough for our team.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
well i just like the article itself because Tim K, used to rip into smith back in the day, and he's finally not being biased and writing bout the facts of Hill behind center with stats.

HOw can anyone read this article, and not feel that Hill is at least some of the blame for the failing offense. Just like tim said, when he does have time to throw, and thats what concerns me. when he does have time and the ol allows him, the decisions that he makes.

Hey brother Afrikan, or JoeCool, that i havent heard from in a while. You two guys look at this article with some stats, and let me know if HIll doesnt deserve almost just as much to blame in a failing offense than the OL


The whole offense deserves blame. The interesting thing about the article is he states all the bad stats yet still feels Hill is the best QB on the team. It shows he really has no respect for the guys behind Hill. Bottom line is Hill is still the starter on this team. If he begins turning the ball over via fumbles and interceptions, I would expect a change. If he continues to play like he has, I don't think there will be a change.

Of course the whole offense deserves blame, but i have to ask you brotha. Forget about Davis or smith for a second. Lets just look at HIll. So far in the wins and losses category we know some things now. So far THIS SEASON, we are 3-2. His undefeated home game skid is over, and so far, he has not produced greatly in the two losses, really in the wins for that matter, had it not been for the running game. I say there will be a QB change if and i mean if 2 of these things happen.

1. In my opinion, if we lose 2 out of the next 3 games, and he doesnt at least go for over 250 +yds, or more than 2TD's in each of these games through the air, then he will be benched. I say that only because it would have proved one thing. That HIll is only successful against failing teams with losing records.

2. For this reason talked about by Matt M, and Cossell of NFL films who Matt stated has tons of credibility;

Matt M: On the other side of the ball, the 49ers have some problems, don't they?

Cosell: "The one thing fans might not realize is that coaches know exactly what their players can and can't do. If a team gets down, like the Niners, and they can't throw to get back in the game and fans go, 'Oh, my, they can't throw!' Well, the 49ers know that, too. They can't play in those kinds of games. They can't win those kinds of games. They have to play in games where their defense keeps the game close, so their offense can run the ball. I think (Shaun) Hill has had some nice moments this year. I thought his (fourth-quarter) drive against Arizona Week 1 was very, very good. I have some problems with the way Arizona chose to play defense on that drive, but you still have to make the throws. Same with Minnesota. I thought Hill made some very good throws. I thought Minnesota had some problems with playing their coverages and the responsibilities within those coverages, but you still have to make the throws. But at the end of the day, Hill is not going to be a guy who's going to consistently drop back and make throw after throw after throw to either keep you in games or win games."


The bolded part stood out in my mind, because Hill has definitely produced, but has it been enough for our team.

Probably not. But Singletary runs this team which means turnovers are more important to him than QB stats.
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