There are 173 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

49ers vs. Crabtree (Contract - Who Won?)

49ers vs. Crabtree (Contract - Who Won?)

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

WOW. Just...WOW.

I'm sorry MadDog...I'm sure you couldn't care less, but I think I've lost all respect for you on this site.

I agreed with you in the past that webzoners were villainizing Crabtree and that it was ridiculous. I agreed that people would turn around the second he put his name on the contract (and that has been the case).

However, you are doing some serious work in this post to make it sound as if what has just taken place is what you predicted all along...and thats not even close to the case.

I'm sorry man...the crow has been cooked, it's been laid out before you, and you just chickened out on taking the bite out of it you promised you would take if you were proven wrong.

Sorry Buddy, can't take you seriously anymore.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
I'm still a little confused on the contract breakdown.

He has 17 million n guaranteed money. And can gain an extra 8 million with a highly unlikely (but possible if he's a beast) 8 million excellerator to bring it up to 40 million total. But what exactly is the other 15 million? Is this signing bonus stuff or what?

The other 15 million is base salary, or yearly salary. So hypothetically, it could be...

2009: 1 million
2010: 2 million
2011: 2 million
2012: 3 million
2013: 3 million
2014: 4 million

Those numbers aren't accurate, just used for the purpose of explanation.

So then he still got more than Raji since Raji only has 22.5 million(not including escalators).

If you take out the 6th year to make all things equal it's 5 years 28 million (17 guaranteed) as apposed to 5 years 22.5 million (18 million guaranteed) with a 6 million escalator. Plus Crabtree has missed 4 games.

It sure seems to me like no one won or lost and they pretty much met in the middle.

From what I understand, Raji's escalator is very reasonably attainable, whereas Crabtree's isn't. Plus, the sixth year is a big deal because he'll be signed for a base salary of $4M...which means another year before he can get a big second contract.

All that being said, I was under the impression that DHB was the benchmark, not Raji.

You're exaclty right on the Raji deal.

Raji's base deal is 5 Years at $22.9 Million, but he has a "likely to earned" incentive that pays him a one-time $5.22 Million bonus if he plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY given year of the contract, so basically if Raji is still breathing his base contract value is actually 5 years at $28.12 Million, or $5.62 Million per year.

Crabtree's base is 6 years, $32.0 Million with "unlikely to be earned" incentives triggered by Pro-Bowl appearances. So Crabtree's base will likely remain 6 years, $32.0 Million or $5.33 Million per year, or giving the benefit of the doubt, we could use the pro-rated math of 5.75 years (since he's in the building and working after 25% of the season) which would be $5.57 Million per year.

So, with a straight face, I say the Niners held the slot in every practical way.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5210

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
You're exaclty right on the Raji deal.

Raji's base deal is 5 Years at $22.9 Million, but he has a "likely to earned" incentive that pays him a one-time $5.22 Million bonus if he plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY given year of the contract, so basically if Raji is still breathing his base contract value is actually 5 years at $28.12 Million, or $5.62 Million per year.

Crabtree's base is 6 years, $32.0 Million with "unlikely to be earned" incentives triggered by Pro-Bowl appearances. So Crabtree's base will likely remain 6 years, $32.0 Million or $5.33 Million per year, or giving the benefit of the doubt, we could use the pro-rated math of 5.75 years (since he's in the building and working after 25% of the season) which would be $5.57 Million per year.

So, with a straight face, I say the Niners held the slot in every practical way.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5210

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135

Thanks a ton for the info. Is there any mention of any penalty for the games that Crabtree has missed, or is Crabtree paid as though he's been here the whole season?
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
You're exaclty right on the Raji deal.

Raji's base deal is 5 Years at $22.9 Million, but he has a "likely to earned" incentive that pays him a one-time $5.22 Million bonus if he plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY given year of the contract, so basically if Raji is still breathing his base contract value is actually 5 years at $28.12 Million, or $5.62 Million per year.

Crabtree's base is 6 years, $32.0 Million with "unlikely to be earned" incentives triggered by Pro-Bowl appearances. So Crabtree's base will likely remain 6 years, $32.0 Million or $5.33 Million per year, or giving the benefit of the doubt, we could use the pro-rated math of 5.75 years (since he's in the building and working after 25% of the season) which would be $5.57 Million per year.

So, with a straight face, I say the Niners held the slot in every practical way.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5210

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135

While it is Rotoworld, that is all the breakdown that I needed. Thanks.

After reading this, i'm even more convinced that the 49ers came out ahead.

-9fA
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
I'm still a little confused on the contract breakdown.

He has 17 million n guaranteed money. And can gain an extra 8 million with a highly unlikely (but possible if he's a beast) 8 million excellerator to bring it up to 40 million total. But what exactly is the other 15 million? Is this signing bonus stuff or what?

The other 15 million is base salary, or yearly salary. So hypothetically, it could be...

2009: 1 million
2010: 2 million
2011: 2 million
2012: 3 million
2013: 3 million
2014: 4 million

Those numbers aren't accurate, just used for the purpose of explanation.

So then he still got more than Raji since Raji only has 22.5 million(not including escalators).

If you take out the 6th year to make all things equal it's 5 years 28 million (17 guaranteed) as apposed to 5 years 22.5 million (18 million guaranteed) with a 6 million escalator. Plus Crabtree has missed 4 games.

It sure seems to me like no one won or lost and they pretty much met in the middle.

From what I understand, Raji's escalator is very reasonably attainable, whereas Crabtree's isn't. Plus, the sixth year is a big deal because he'll be signed for a base salary of $4M...which means another year before he can get a big second contract.

All that being said, I was under the impression that DHB was the benchmark, not Raji.

You're exaclty right on the Raji deal.

Raji's base deal is 5 Years at $22.9 Million, but he has a "likely to earned" incentive that pays him a one-time $5.22 Million bonus if he plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY given year of the contract, so basically if Raji is still breathing his base contract value is actually 5 years at $28.12 Million, or $5.62 Million per year.

Crabtree's base is 6 years, $32.0 Million with "unlikely to be earned" incentives triggered by Pro-Bowl appearances. So Crabtree's base will likely remain 6 years, $32.0 Million or $5.33 Million per year, or giving the benefit of the doubt, we could use the pro-rated math of 5.75 years (since he's in the building and working after 25% of the season) which would be $5.57 Million per year.

So, with a straight face, I say the Niners held the slot in every practical way.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5210

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135

Good work. Thanks for doing the math for us all.

In the end, I'm glad Crabtree relented and reconsidered his holdout. He seems like a nice, likeable young man and it would have been sad to see him completely forego this season and reenter the draft--a move that would have cost him alot of money.

More than anything else, the Niner's front office deserves alot of respect from anyone paying attention. They were accused of being young, ignorant, unprepared, etc. They handled things with patient professionalism and business acumen, finally resolving what could have been a very ugly "divorce" with a contract that provides a reasonable value for the player's anticipated services.

Whether its a win or a loss for Parker, or for Crabtree, it certainly appears to be a win for the Niners organization. IMHO.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

WOW. Just...WOW.

I'm sorry MadDog...I'm sure you couldn't care less, but I think I've lost all respect for you on this site.

I agreed with you in the past that webzoners were villainizing Crabtree and that it was ridiculous. I agreed that people would turn around the second he put his name on the contract (and that has been the case).

However, you are doing some serious work in this post to make it sound as if what has just taken place is what you predicted all along...and thats not even close to the case.

I'm sorry man...the crow has been cooked, it's been laid out before you, and you just chickened out on taking the bite out of it you promised you would take if you were proven wrong.

Sorry Buddy, can't take you seriously anymore.

Agreed, they broke it down on Sportscenter and he signed for money that was in the slot, but a little closer to #9 than #11 money.
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
I'm still a little confused on the contract breakdown.

He has 17 million n guaranteed money. And can gain an extra 8 million with a highly unlikely (but possible if he's a beast) 8 million excellerator to bring it up to 40 million total. But what exactly is the other 15 million? Is this signing bonus stuff or what?

The other 15 million is base salary, or yearly salary. So hypothetically, it could be...

2009: 1 million
2010: 2 million
2011: 2 million
2012: 3 million
2013: 3 million
2014: 4 million

Those numbers aren't accurate, just used for the purpose of explanation.

So then he still got more than Raji since Raji only has 22.5 million(not including escalators).

If you take out the 6th year to make all things equal it's 5 years 28 million (17 guaranteed) as apposed to 5 years 22.5 million (18 million guaranteed) with a 6 million escalator. Plus Crabtree has missed 4 games.

It sure seems to me like no one won or lost and they pretty much met in the middle.

From what I understand, Raji's escalator is very reasonably attainable, whereas Crabtree's isn't. Plus, the sixth year is a big deal because he'll be signed for a base salary of $4M...which means another year before he can get a big second contract.

All that being said, I was under the impression that DHB was the benchmark, not Raji.

You're exaclty right on the Raji deal.

Raji's base deal is 5 Years at $22.9 Million, but he has a "likely to earned" incentive that pays him a one-time $5.22 Million bonus if he plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY given year of the contract, so basically if Raji is still breathing his base contract value is actually 5 years at $28.12 Million, or $5.62 Million per year.

Crabtree's base is 6 years, $32.0 Million with "unlikely to be earned" incentives triggered by Pro-Bowl appearances. So Crabtree's base will likely remain 6 years, $32.0 Million or $5.33 Million per year, or giving the benefit of the doubt, we could use the pro-rated math of 5.75 years (since he's in the building and working after 25% of the season) which would be $5.57 Million per year.

So, with a straight face, I say the Niners held the slot in every practical way.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5210

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135

Sonoco, great work on the math here. Thanks for that!
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
You're exaclty right on the Raji deal.

Raji's base deal is 5 Years at $22.9 Million, but he has a "likely to earned" incentive that pays him a one-time $5.22 Million bonus if he plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY given year of the contract, so basically if Raji is still breathing his base contract value is actually 5 years at $28.12 Million, or $5.62 Million per year.

Crabtree's base is 6 years, $32.0 Million with "unlikely to be earned" incentives triggered by Pro-Bowl appearances. So Crabtree's base will likely remain 6 years, $32.0 Million or $5.33 Million per year, or giving the benefit of the doubt, we could use the pro-rated math of 5.75 years (since he's in the building and working after 25% of the season) which would be $5.57 Million per year.

So, with a straight face, I say the Niners held the slot in every practical way.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5210

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135

Thanks a ton for the info. Is there any mention of any penalty for the games that Crabtree has missed, or is Crabtree paid as though he's been here the whole season?

Oh he definitely isnt getting paid like he's been here all year. He has missed game checks. And I'd imagine the niners structured the contract so that he took a decent hit for not being here.
Originally posted by 9erReign:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
You're exaclty right on the Raji deal.

Raji's base deal is 5 Years at $22.9 Million, but he has a "likely to earned" incentive that pays him a one-time $5.22 Million bonus if he plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY given year of the contract, so basically if Raji is still breathing his base contract value is actually 5 years at $28.12 Million, or $5.62 Million per year.

Crabtree's base is 6 years, $32.0 Million with "unlikely to be earned" incentives triggered by Pro-Bowl appearances. So Crabtree's base will likely remain 6 years, $32.0 Million or $5.33 Million per year, or giving the benefit of the doubt, we could use the pro-rated math of 5.75 years (since he's in the building and working after 25% of the season) which would be $5.57 Million per year.

So, with a straight face, I say the Niners held the slot in every practical way.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5210

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135

Thanks a ton for the info. Is there any mention of any penalty for the games that Crabtree has missed, or is Crabtree paid as though he's been here the whole season?

Oh he definitely isnt getting paid like he's been here all year. He has missed game checks. And I'd imagine the niners structured the contract so that he took a decent hit for not being here.

I don't think they did. He just isn't going to get the money he wanted.
I believe the 49ers made a fool of themselves. They are paying for a wasted year. He will not perform at the level he would have if he had been in camp all season and participated in the first four games.

The organization now appears to reward selfish divas, encouraging others on the team to act in similar fashion in the years ahead.

Some have said he was the best talent in the draft this year --- well they said that about Alex Smith too.

Finally, for those who believe Singletary will keep this kid in line, I am not so sure. It appears to have worked with Vernon Davis, but the year is young. Crabtree may be different. Sing's appraoch may not work, especially if Crabtree's true motivation is to get a contract in place, then become such a jackass that the 49ers are pressured to trade him to a high glamor team like Dallas.

I may be a buzzkiller, but my radar detects trouble.
Originally posted by excelsior:
I believe the 49ers made a fool of themselves. They are paying for a wasted year. He will not perform at the level he would have if he had been in camp all season and participated in the first four games.

The organization now appears to reward selfish divas, encouraging others on the team to act in similar fashion in the years ahead.

Some have said he was the best talent in the draft this year --- well they said that about Alex Smith too.

Finally, for those who believe Singletary will keep this kid in line, I am not so sure. It appears to have worked with Vernon Davis, but the year is young. Crabtree may be different. Sing's appraoch may not work, especially if Crabtree's true motivation is to get a contract in place, then become such a jackass that the 49ers are pressured to trade him to a high glamor team like Dallas.

I may be a buzzkiller, but my radar detects trouble.

...so umm what did you want the 49ers to do? Trade him? Sit tight and wait for the Jets to draft him when he re-enters?

Was this your reaction after we drafted him?

-9fA
Originally posted by olapac:
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
I'm still a little confused on the contract breakdown.

He has 17 million n guaranteed money. And can gain an extra 8 million with a highly unlikely (but possible if he's a beast) 8 million excellerator to bring it up to 40 million total. But what exactly is the other 15 million? Is this signing bonus stuff or what?

The other 15 million is base salary, or yearly salary. So hypothetically, it could be...

2009: 1 million
2010: 2 million
2011: 2 million
2012: 3 million
2013: 3 million
2014: 4 million

Those numbers aren't accurate, just used for the purpose of explanation.

So then he still got more than Raji since Raji only has 22.5 million(not including escalators).

If you take out the 6th year to make all things equal it's 5 years 28 million (17 guaranteed) as apposed to 5 years 22.5 million (18 million guaranteed) with a 6 million escalator. Plus Crabtree has missed 4 games.

It sure seems to me like no one won or lost and they pretty much met in the middle.

From what I understand, Raji's escalator is very reasonably attainable, whereas Crabtree's isn't. Plus, the sixth year is a big deal because he'll be signed for a base salary of $4M...which means another year before he can get a big second contract.

All that being said, I was under the impression that DHB was the benchmark, not Raji.

You're exaclty right on the Raji deal.

Raji's base deal is 5 Years at $22.9 Million, but he has a "likely to earned" incentive that pays him a one-time $5.22 Million bonus if he plays more than 35% of the defensive snaps in ANY given year of the contract, so basically if Raji is still breathing his base contract value is actually 5 years at $28.12 Million, or $5.62 Million per year.

Crabtree's base is 6 years, $32.0 Million with "unlikely to be earned" incentives triggered by Pro-Bowl appearances. So Crabtree's base will likely remain 6 years, $32.0 Million or $5.33 Million per year, or giving the benefit of the doubt, we could use the pro-rated math of 5.75 years (since he's in the building and working after 25% of the season) which would be $5.57 Million per year.

So, with a straight face, I say the Niners held the slot in every practical way.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5210

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135

Sonoco, great work on the math here. Thanks for that!


You're all very welcome !
The niners did indeed, they couldn't have afforded to set a bad precedent and they did not.
My response to AUS is that it would have been smarter to save this money for tried, true and NFL-tested free agents. Some have said that you cannot sign quality free agents; that the good ones are locked up. Fiddlesticks! In just the last few years, the 49ers have signed Nedney, W. Harris, Clements, Spikes, J. Smith, M. Lewis. Not bad.
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by domesik:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

Simply unbelievable.

Come on bro, you didn't really think MD would admit to being wrong. It's just not in his personality. MadDog, I'm on 49ers ecstacy right now, so I love all things 49ers, including all the fans, including you.....

I love you man.

In the end, as I predicted, he is not man enough to admit when he is wrong (again)..

Let it go. This forum is his life. If he fails in here he fails in life. Not trying to make fun of him it just is what it is. The proof is in the pudding.