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Singletary Encourages Hill to OPEN IT UP!

hill says he just tries to manage the game and doesn't take many risks throwing into small windows. He said so himself at the press conference against the seahawks (?)
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Is this a problem with Hill or a problem with Raye.

I think the timidity from Hill is because the offense is so simplified and let's face it, he's just building a rapport with these receivers again. Other than Bruce, Morgan is a FT starter for the first time THIS season.

Simplified offenses make it easier on the QB, not harder. I think he is just too afraid to turn the ball over. As far as building a rapport with his receivers, this is the exact same bunch of guys he was throwing to last year, after 11 games he should be comfortable with them. Maybe he is having trouble being "the man" and just needs a little more time to get comfortable with himself. It is a big difference going from being the back up with no pressure to being the starter that is expected to deliver.
Nice to hear, but I doubt the playcalling changes very much if at all. Execution will get better though.
Interesting video...and a bit confusing. When Singletary says "please note that you are free to do that (open it up)", is he talking to the media or Jimmy Raye or Shaun Hill?
Shaun has to follow whatever Jimmy Raye tells him to do, so this msg seems more towards the OC.
Based on what I've seen in the first three games and listenening to Singletary, he seems to be concentrating totally on the defense and has left it to the OC to call whatever plays he deems fit. I guess every HC has to pick his spot, but I"m glad that he is at least listening to the so-called conventional wisdom out there that says "why not pass more?"
I hope we see some changes in the St.Louis game. We are the superior team (for the most part) and have a bit of luxury to take a few chances "after" we get a good enough lead.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Is this a problem with Hill or a problem with Raye.

I think the timidity from Hill is because the offense is so simplified and let's face it, he's just building a rapport with these receivers again. Other than Bruce, Morgan is a FT starter for the first time THIS season.

Simplified offenses make it easier on the QB, not harder. I think he is just too afraid to turn the ball over. As far as building a rapport with his receivers, this is the exact same bunch of guys he was throwing to last year, after 11 games he should be comfortable with them. Maybe he is having trouble being "the man" and just needs a little more time to get comfortable with himself. It is a big difference going from being the back up with no pressure to being the starter that is expected to deliver.

Good objective post Memphis! And you bring up good points about continuity with the WR's a simplified game plan and the pressures of being "the man" now. I'm sure they all factor in. I agree that I think he's afraid to turn the ball over too. But I think that's b/c he's being taught not too lose this year and won't take those chances this year where last year, he played with much more confidence and would make those throws without hesitation (and make them successfully). Despite playing with the same WR's I also think it's STILL a new offense and one he and the WR's need to learn and gain confidence in before they start clicking. Unfortunately, Raye IMHO, is either pushed by Singletary to stay vanilla, predictable and conservative or his offense are THAT much outdated. Given his average-at-best offenses over the years, it's hard to tell where the problem really lies.

Let's give 'em a few more weeks and see if we start looking like a more balanced and complete offense. If we continue to cave in pressure situations then we'll have a better idea where the problems lie; "we" being the operative word (Singletary, Raye, o-line, Hill, WR's, RB's, etc.).

If my hand was forced, today, I'd say the problem starts with Singletary's "play not to lose" preaching, Raye's outdated offense and his inability to feel for a game and lack of knowledge and confidence in Hill and the passing game and then Hill's confidence as a result of the aforementioned.

PS: The o-line is a HUGE problem too but I feel that is b/c of the predictability of the offensive play-calling that plays to the defenses advantage and results in zero running room (often times, negative), Hill running for his life and playing off his back foot and WR's losing confidence and concentration as a result.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by mrgneissguy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Originally posted by RonMexico:
wonder if shaun is allowed to change the play at the line if he knows a run won't work

Interestingly enough, I remember the biggest thing Shaun raved about regarding Raye's offense was that QBs had more freedom to call audibles (unlike last season under Martz). -And the only QB I saw all pre-season to utilize this advantage was Nate Davis (and Nate was praised for his intangibles).

Has ANYONE seen Shaun Hill audible at all? Seriously...I was under the impression the play-calling was all predetermined by Raye and the predictable motions and how the formations looked were OBVIOUS for defenses to determine whether it would be a run or not and defenses were exploiting this predictability with ease. Hill is a very smart QB and I just can't see him walking up to a line, staying with Raye's run-up-the-middle play, starring at a 9 man box all obviously getting ready to run blitz up the gut and STAY with it. Really? No way!

But it's so simple. All Hill had to do was divine from what he knows of the defense: are they the sort of team who would put their focus against the run or the pass? Now, a clever man would run, because he would know that only a great fool would pass. But Hill is not a great fool, so he can clearly not choose the pass. But the defense must have known Hill was not a great fool, they would have counted on it, so they can clearly not choose to defend the pass.

But because the statements indicating the Niners will rely on the run comes from the coaches, as everyone knows, and coaching staffs are entirely peopled with folks attempting to deceive the competition, and coaches are used to having people not trust them, as they are not trusted by the defense, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend against the run.

And Hill must have suspected the defense would have known the strategy’s origin, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend the pass.

The defense had beaten the run twice, which means they're exceptionally strong, so Hill could've chosen to pass, trusting on his arm strength to save him, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend against the run. But, the defense also bested the passing game earlier, which means they must have studied, and in studying they must have learned that Hill has no arm strength and no big play threat, so Hill would have put the play’s success in someone else’s hands, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend the pass.

But then Hill got to the line of scrimmage, could have sworn he saw something. No matter. Let's go with the play called and not audible.

But he guessed wrong.

But we only think he guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! He switched plays when the defense’s back was turned! They fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a time of possession war against the Colts, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against Hill when the game is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...

He seems a decent fellow, I hate to bench him.

Classic!

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by mrgneissguy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Originally posted by RonMexico:
wonder if shaun is allowed to change the play at the line if he knows a run won't work

Interestingly enough, I remember the biggest thing Shaun raved about regarding Raye's offense was that QBs had more freedom to call audibles (unlike last season under Martz). -And the only QB I saw all pre-season to utilize this advantage was Nate Davis (and Nate was praised for his intangibles).

Has ANYONE seen Shaun Hill audible at all? Seriously...I was under the impression the play-calling was all predetermined by Raye and the predictable motions and how the formations looked were OBVIOUS for defenses to determine whether it would be a run or not and defenses were exploiting this predictability with ease. Hill is a very smart QB and I just can't see him walking up to a line, staying with Raye's run-up-the-middle play, starring at a 9 man box all obviously getting ready to run blitz up the gut and STAY with it. Really? No way!

But it's so simple. All Hill had to do was divine from what he knows of the defense: are they the sort of team who would put their focus against the run or the pass? Now, a clever man would run, because he would know that only a great fool would pass. But Hill is not a great fool, so he can clearly not choose the pass. But the defense must have known Hill was not a great fool, they would have counted on it, so they can clearly not choose to defend the pass.

But because the statements indicating the Niners will rely on the run comes from the coaches, as everyone knows, and coaching staffs are entirely peopled with folks attempting to deceive the competition, and coaches are used to having people not trust them, as they are not trusted by the defense, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend against the run.

And Hill must have suspected the defense would have known the strategy’s origin, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend the pass.

The defense had beaten the run twice, which means they're exceptionally strong, so Hill could've chosen to pass, trusting on his arm strength to save him, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend against the run. But, the defense also bested the passing game earlier, which means they must have studied, and in studying they must have learned that Hill has no arm strength and no big play threat, so Hill would have put the play’s success in someone else’s hands, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend the pass.

But then Hill got to the line of scrimmage, could have sworn he saw something. No matter. Let's go with the play called and not audible.

But he guessed wrong.

But we only think he guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! He switched plays when the defense’s back was turned! They fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a time of possession war against the Colts, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against Hill when the game is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...

He seems a decent fellow, I hate to bench him.

Classic!


Already nominated it for POTD
his noodle vision doesn't allow him to
[ Edited by BirdmanJr on Sep 30, 2009 at 4:14 PM ]
Bring JT back!!!!! 
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Is this a problem with Hill or a problem with Raye.

I think the timidity from Hill is because the offense is so simplified and let's face it, he's just building a rapport with these receivers again. Other than Bruce, Morgan is a FT starter for the first time THIS season.

Simplified offenses make it easier on the QB, not harder. I think he is just too afraid to turn the ball over. As far as building a rapport with his receivers, this is the exact same bunch of guys he was throwing to last year, after 11 games he should be comfortable with them. Maybe he is having trouble being "the man" and just needs a little more time to get comfortable with himself. It is a big difference going from being the back up with no pressure to being the starter that is expected to deliver.

Good objective post Memphis! And you bring up good points about continuity with the WR's a simplified game plan and the pressures of being "the man" now. I'm sure they all factor in. I agree that I think he's afraid to turn the ball over too. But I think that's b/c he's being taught not too lose this year and won't take those chances this year where last year, he played with much more confidence and would make those throws without hesitation (and make them successfully). Despite playing with the same WR's I also think it's STILL a new offense and one he and the WR's need to learn and gain confidence in before they start clicking. Unfortunately, Raye IMHO, is either pushed by Singletary to stay vanilla, predictable and conservative or his offense are THAT much outdated. Given his average-at-best offenses over the years, it's hard to tell where the problem really lies.

Let's give 'em a few more weeks and see if we start looking like a more balanced and complete offense. If we continue to cave in pressure situations then we'll have a better idea where the problems lie; "we" being the operative word (Singletary, Raye, o-line, Hill, WR's, RB's, etc.).

If my hand was forced, today, I'd say the problem starts with Singletary's "play not to lose" preaching, Raye's outdated offense and his inability to feel for a game and lack of knowledge and confidence in Hill and the passing game and then Hill's confidence as a result of the aforementioned.

PS: The o-line is a HUGE problem too but I feel that is b/c of the predictability of the offensive play-calling that plays to the defenses advantage and results in zero running room (often times, negative), Hill running for his life and playing off his back foot and WR's losing confidence and concentration as a result.

And I apologize if I was unclear by "simplified" - I should have meant "vanilla" - yes it's easier on the QB, but I agree with you, it's also easier for defenses to read and stop. I think at some level you have to scheme against an opponent's weakness in today's NFL. And I also agree given the talent level at the skill positions, scheme is probably even more important.

As for the 11 guys, yes - again - as you say, it was in a different offense - one that Bruce was more familiar and I would say that Martz, despite the 7 steppers, still got those guys open a majority of the time. Being "the man" is pressure, but I really haven't seen a pattern or scheme with passing where I was like "now that was creative..."

I understand what Singletary is saying about "we're not trying to trick anyone" but the downside of that argument is predictability - and unless you're beating your opponent in one-on-one match-ups, predictability works against you.

Again echoing what you said above - the OL isn't helping which makes the passing game much more precarious. I think once we figure out pass-blocking, we should see better results through the air.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Is this a problem with Hill or a problem with Raye.

I think the timidity from Hill is because the offense is so simplified and let's face it, he's just building a rapport with these receivers again. Other than Bruce, Morgan is a FT starter for the first time THIS season.

Simplified offenses make it easier on the QB, not harder. I think he is just too afraid to turn the ball over. As far as building a rapport with his receivers, this is the exact same bunch of guys he was throwing to last year, after 11 games he should be comfortable with them. Maybe he is having trouble being "the man" and just needs a little more time to get comfortable with himself. It is a big difference going from being the back up with no pressure to being the starter that is expected to deliver.

Good objective post Memphis! And you bring up good points about continuity with the WR's a simplified game plan and the pressures of being "the man" now. I'm sure they all factor in. I agree that I think he's afraid to turn the ball over too. But I think that's b/c he's being taught not too lose this year and won't take those chances this year where last year, he played with much more confidence and would make those throws without hesitation (and make them successfully). Despite playing with the same WR's I also think it's STILL a new offense and one he and the WR's need to learn and gain confidence in before they start clicking. Unfortunately, Raye IMHO, is either pushed by Singletary to stay vanilla, predictable and conservative or his offense are THAT much outdated. Given his average-at-best offenses over the years, it's hard to tell where the problem really lies.

Let's give 'em a few more weeks and see if we start looking like a more balanced and complete offense. If we continue to cave in pressure situations then we'll have a better idea where the problems lie; "we" being the operative word (Singletary, Raye, o-line, Hill, WR's, RB's, etc.).

If my hand was forced, today, I'd say the problem starts with Singletary's "play not to lose" preaching, Raye's outdated offense and his inability to feel for a game and lack of knowledge and confidence in Hill and the passing game and then Hill's confidence as a result of the aforementioned.

PS: The o-line is a HUGE problem too but I feel that is b/c of the predictability of the offensive play-calling that plays to the defenses advantage and results in zero running room (often times, negative), Hill running for his life and playing off his back foot and WR's losing confidence and concentration as a result.

And I apologize if I was unclear by "simplified" - I should have meant "vanilla" - yes it's easier on the QB, but I agree with you, it's also easier for defenses to read and stop. I think at some level you have to scheme against an opponent's weakness in today's NFL. And I also agree given the talent level at the skill positions, scheme is probably even more important.

As for the 11 guys, yes - again - as you say, it was in a different offense - one that Bruce was more familiar and I would say that Martz, despite the 7 steppers, still got those guys open a majority of the time. Being "the man" is pressure, but I really haven't seen a pattern or scheme with passing where I was like "now that was creative..."

I understand what Singletary is saying about "we're not trying to trick anyone" but the downside of that argument is predictability - and unless you're beating your opponent in one-on-one match-ups, predictability works against you.

Again echoing what you said above - the OL isn't helping which makes the passing game much more precarious. I think once we figure out pass-blocking, we should see better results through the air.

The line does need to step it up, it has been terrible at pass blocking for too many years now. It might be the second biggest holdup with Alex Smith's development, next to Mike Nolan not being a very good head coach.
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by mrgneissguy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Originally posted by RonMexico:
wonder if shaun is allowed to change the play at the line if he knows a run won't work

Interestingly enough, I remember the biggest thing Shaun raved about regarding Raye's offense was that QBs had more freedom to call audibles (unlike last season under Martz). -And the only QB I saw all pre-season to utilize this advantage was Nate Davis (and Nate was praised for his intangibles).

Has ANYONE seen Shaun Hill audible at all? Seriously...I was under the impression the play-calling was all predetermined by Raye and the predictable motions and how the formations looked were OBVIOUS for defenses to determine whether it would be a run or not and defenses were exploiting this predictability with ease. Hill is a very smart QB and I just can't see him walking up to a line, staying with Raye's run-up-the-middle play, starring at a 9 man box all obviously getting ready to run blitz up the gut and STAY with it. Really? No way!

But it's so simple. All Hill had to do was divine from what he knows of the defense: are they the sort of team who would put their focus against the run or the pass? Now, a clever man would run, because he would know that only a great fool would pass. But Hill is not a great fool, so he can clearly not choose the pass. But the defense must have known Hill was not a great fool, they would have counted on it, so they can clearly not choose to defend the pass.

But because the statements indicating the Niners will rely on the run comes from the coaches, as everyone knows, and coaching staffs are entirely peopled with folks attempting to deceive the competition, and coaches are used to having people not trust them, as they are not trusted by the defense, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend against the run.

And Hill must have suspected the defense would have known the strategy’s origin, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend the pass.

The defense had beaten the run twice, which means they're exceptionally strong, so Hill could've chosen to pass, trusting on his arm strength to save him, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend against the run. But, the defense also bested the passing game earlier, which means they must have studied, and in studying they must have learned that Hill has no arm strength and no big play threat, so Hill would have put the play’s success in someone else’s hands, so the defense can clearly not choose to defend the pass.

But then Hill got to the line of scrimmage, could have sworn he saw something. No matter. Let's go with the play called and not audible.

But he guessed wrong.

But we only think he guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! He switched plays when the defense’s back was turned! They fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a time of possession war against the Colts, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against Hill when the game is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...

He seems a decent fellow, I hate to bench him.

Classic!


Already nominated it for POTD

I would have got it except that I chose not to, because it would make it too easy to get and then I thought you know screw it and I got it anyway. So therefore I fell into that blunder of understanding what it is I was not supposed to understand to begin with. I just wish that MrGneissguy would bring Shaun up to speed or it's going to be a very long season.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder

Someone has a perchance for hyperbole. Hill has far from the worst stats of any QB in the NFL. Ever heard of the names JaMarcus Russel, Jake Delhome, Byron Leftwich, Brady Quinn, Mark Bulger, Matthew Stafford, David Garrard, Jason Campbell..etc. etc.?
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
I found an interesting vid containing a small segment from "Coach Speak" on Fox Sports (via youtube) featuring Singletary, and how he feels about Shaun Hill in relation to the offensive system/passing game.

From this standpoint it sounds like Singletary has been encouraging Shaun to open it up (that Mike is fully confident within his QB), and that Shaun (himself) is allowed to do so whenever he feels comfortable enough to spread the field.

So altogether, it really sounds like we're finally going to air it out a lot more, and put more trust into Hill to close games (Singletary may be stubborn, but he never makes the same mistake twice if it costs the team a game).


Oh geez, if that was truly the case all along, then WHY oh why does Shaun have the WORST stats for a starting QB in the NFL?

Don't even mention Raye's name in regards to this cause I will laugh you right out of the conversation. Gimme something logical please, cause the stats just ain't normal.

~Ceadder

Someone has a perchance for hyperbole. Hill has far from the worst stats of any QB in the NFL. Ever heard of the names JaMarcus Russel, Jake Delhome, Byron Leftwich, Brady Quinn, Mark Bulger, Matthew Stafford, David Garrard, Jason Campbell..etc. etc.?

Ummmmm let's see here, no $h|t?

The point is, that Shaun ranks in the bottom of the list in every statistical category. Ranks right with the aforementioned names no less. That's nothing to be proud about. In fact I think that it would get some of us a bit up in arms over that.

But hey if he satisfies you and you can smoke a cigarette when he's finished, who am I to point this stuff out. So did you learn ANYTHING when you were on NFL.com, besides that Shaun is not at the bottom of the list? Or was this little experiment lost on you?

~Ceadder