Stop blaming Raye . . .

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by 49ersMan420:
not blaming anyone but cmon we need to fool the D a lil, we should have had a short pass on that last drive to get a first down and then we could have ran out the damn clock...

Yeah, those 1st down things were growing on tree's all day, especially when we needed them.... piece of cake. Sims at left tackle, and Staley out. Gotta love that Sims guy, he's the best pass blocker on the team and that Allen guy on the other side sucks! It's a no brainier we should be passing the ball backed up deep in their territory with a 4 point lead and under a 1.5 minutes to play, with the opposing team out of timeouts. Especially with that crappy ass defense who had been letting them march up and down the field all day, especially the second half. Throw in the fact that our punter can't punt worth a s**t, and the punt coverage team sucks ass too. I'm with ya man, all things point to we should have passed that ball.

Yup, you're right. Running worked so much better even though everyone plus Helen Keller could see it coming, over and over and over........ C'mon Blitz, 3 games in a row we tried that tactic and could buy a first down. Nothing wrong with thr run first philosophy if it works, and, they're not expecting it every play. We fooled no on and came close to being 0-3. Don't kid yourself. Sing and Raye, like it or not, need to come up with alternatives when something ain't working, and 3 and outs are a pretty good indication!

They didn't need to fool anyone, there was absolutely no need to fool anyone. We could give two f**king s**ts about fooling someone in that situation. There was a need to protect the ball AT ALL COSTS, not fool someone. Why is that so hard to understand man? WTF, for all intents and purposes Sing can give them the play gift wrapped on 3 by 5, the point isn't to try and fool anybody, it's to protect the ball in that situation. I'm sure he could give two f**ks about fooling them in that situation, and probably won't even give s**t about announcing it to them with a bullhorn. "Looky here, we are going to protect the ball, we don;t give two s**t's about fooling you, you call the play as long as it's a hand off, we don't care." This "fooling" someone" is a mute point, irrelevant to the circumstances at hand. The game was won, the d f**ked up in the end. They fought scratched and sold their granny's soul to get where they were, and the d f**ked it up in the end. The O didn't have jack s**t to do with the D not defending that play well. That's a fact and no woulda shoulda coulda is going to change it.

when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Originally posted by tommyncal:

Originally posted by ObePwnD:

Originally posted by tommyncal:
. . . . he is calling the plays that Singletary wants. This is Singletary's philosphy . . conservative, conservative and more conservative. Singletary could override any call that Raye calls. Singletary has done a remarkable job, but I am having trouble getting onboard his bandwagon. You need a qb that defenses have to game plan for. These are the 49ers, where's our legacy?? The game is there to be won with a simple short pass and they can't, or choose not to, make a first down! That's alot of pressure to be put on any defense game after game. Singletary needs to change or the Scott needs to tell him to change.

You new guys, I swear.

yeah,what he said

just cause us 'new guys' don't post every time we get a brain fart, doesn't make our opinions inferior to yours, I've been on this forum for years, just choose not to get into every ridiculous debate.

"Blame it on the Raye, yeah yeahhhhhhh"



sorry if someone beat me to it. didn't check the thread.

Originally posted by tommyncal:

Originally posted by ObePwnD:

Originally posted by tommyncal:
. . . . he is calling the plays that Singletary wants. This is Singletary's philosphy . . conservative, conservative and more conservative. Singletary could override any call that Raye calls. Singletary has done a remarkable job, but I am having trouble getting onboard his bandwagon. You need a qb that defenses have to game plan for. These are the 49ers, where's our legacy?? The game is there to be won with a simple short pass and they can't, or choose not to, make a first down! That's alot of pressure to be put on any defense game after game. Singletary needs to change or the Scott needs to tell him to change.

You new guys, I swear.

just cause us 'new guys' don't post every time we get a brain fart, doesn't make our opinions inferior to yours, I've been on this forum for years, just choose not to get into every ridiculous debate.

yeah,what he said

had that miracle last play didn't happen we wouldn't be talking about this...
who cares! GREAT GAME for us and should speak volume on what we did as a TEAM!!!
kudos to the defense and for a break out game for Vernon and Hill. (Alex cringing on the sideline)

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

Oh boy. "the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory"

OK brother, whatever you say man. We'll just forget about those two Td's. They were not, contributions to "Total Team Victory".

Anybody got the url for the "Total Team Victory" stat?

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

The 49ers win and lose together as a team. Singletary has been preaching this since day one. The whole team failed to make plays at the end of the game. This includes both players and coaches.

If the offense gets a first down they win.
If special team punts it within the 10 yard line they win.
If the defense holds on the last play they win.

The bottom line is that the 49ers should have one the game. It's a tough learning experience for a young team. I just hope that in the future, we don't let games like this get away from us anymore. As painful as this loss was, the 49ers are back.

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

Oh boy. "the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory"

OK brother, whatever you say man. We'll just forget about those two Td's. They were not, contributions to "Total Team Victory".

Anybody got the url for the "Total Team Victory" stat?

Here is one.

The offense must convert at least ONE 3rd down

Its like I am in the twilight zone or something

Originally posted by rum53:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

The 49ers win and lose together as a team. Singletary has been preaching this since day one. The whole team failed to make plays at the end of the game. This includes both players and coaches.

If the offense gets a first down they win.
If Andy Lee punts it within the 10 yard line they win.
If the defense holds on the last play they win.

The bottom line is that the 49ers should have one the game. It's a tough learning experience for a young team. I just hope that in the future, we don't let games like this get away from us anymore. As painful as this loss was, the 49ers are back.

I agree. And the decision was made (rightfully so) to turn it over to Andy Lee and the D, who had been performing well during the game. Certainly a hell of a lot better than the O. And then, in the end, the D failed on that play...like Dungy said, they did not defend it well, they were defending the middle of the field mostly instead of the end zone and sidelines. And, like Dungy said, "I'm sure Mike Singletary will address this not defending the last play of the game well, it cost them the win."

Dungy is damn right about that. No buts about it.

Okay blame Singletary as well then. But Raye has to share the blame unless Singletary is doing the play calling. Two series, two chances to close out the game. All you need is ten bloody yards to win a game. You have to get those ten yards. That is the moment to do something different, to do anything to get the first down. You've been stubborn all day. You should have the defense set up for something. You should have noticed something you can exploit.

Instead five carries by your back up, rookie, running back into the strength of their defense for negative total yardage, and an eight yard pass on third and fifteen. Three runs in a row at the end. Raye should be more willing to answer for a little creativity to Singletary than confirming most people's concern that he has no originality or strategic ability.

Also that Singletary is willing to put a positive spin on this is disconcerting. Is he trying to whitewash his own deficiencies or his coaching staff’s failures? What the Niners did offensively, or didn't do, at the end of this game looks alarmingly like Singletary trying to stubbornly impose his will on the other and his own team. That hypocritically makes this about him not the team like he said he wants it to be.

The wanting to run on the other team at the end of games when they know it's coming is great theoretically, sounds great, and we all love it. But in practice just get a first down. Convert a single third down. Compounding the offensive impotence is the fact that Singletary seems comfortable with it. Zero for eleven on third downs. Just keep sending the offense out there to briefly bang their heads against a wall for a moment until the defense returns to work. Too much was asked of our defense and not enough of the offense.

The last thing I wanted to see was an eighth offensive coordinator in eight seasons. If this keeps up I could change my mind. I am not freaking out. The Niners are my team for better or worse, and we are better. But this is fair criticism. The true fans among us have put up with enough, long enough to voice dissatisfaction. Scott should tell Singletary to allow the offense to open up if he's the stick in the mud or tell him to tell Raye to do it.

Shaun Hill takes so much disrespect for what he can't do. All while his play and passer rating demonstrates he is successful at whatever he is allowed to do. Let him play and if his receivers keep dropping critical passes or he messes up you know what you have to correct. Not trying anything has become our way of playing defense for the other team.

Okay I am done. I couldn't keep a lid on it. Our players deserved the win and earned it. The coaches need to help not hinder the players. I will look forward to them taking this loss out on St. Louis. With another effort like this one against Atlanta we should make it to our bye four and one and have two weeks to prepare for our next opponent. I am grateful every one else in our division lost to keep us in first place. Soon I hope they will have to try to keep pace with us instead of us begging favors.

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

Oh boy. "the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory"

OK brother, whatever you say man. We'll just forget about those two Td's. They were not, contributions to "Total Team Victory".

Anybody got the url for the "Total Team Victory" stat?

Here is one.

The offense must convert at least ONE 3rd down

Its like I am in the twilight zone or something

Here is one., if you arn't in the twilight zone that is....When the team has enough points to win and the O can't convert at least one third down, you don't go hanging your hat on them to pull one out in the closing minute and half of the game, you protect the ball, burn the clock and then you punt the f**king ball and you let your D who has performed stellar during the half do their part. THAT'S CALLED PLAYING AS A TEAM...you maximize you strengths and you cover your weakness as best you can and that's exactly what decision was made. It just so happens, they did not defend that play well, and it was also a HOF QB play, a ridiculous throw and a ridiculous catch.

Nw, the first downis crap...because we can all the way back forever with that game, what about the TD that came back? Who's fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. How about the INT, whose fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. It still boils down to individuals executing as a team, and the Vikes had an individual, a hof QB who burned us because we did not defend that play well.

Originally posted by JC49:
Okay blame Singletary as well then. But Raye has to share the blame unless Singletary is doing the play calling. Two series, two chances to close out the game. All you need is ten bloody yards to win a game. You have to get those ten yards. That is the moment to do something different, to do anything to get the first down. You've been stubborn all day. You should have the defense set up for something. You should have noticed something you can exploit.

Instead five carries by your back up, rookie, running back into the strength of their defense for negative total yardage, and an eight yard pass on third and fifteen. Three runs in a row at the end. Raye should be more willing to answer for a little creativity to Singletary than confirming most people's concern that he has no originality or strategic ability.

Also that Singletary is willing to put a positive spin on this is disconcerting. Is he trying to whitewash his own deficiencies or his coaching staff’s failures? What the Niners did offensively, or didn't do, at the end of this game looks alarmingly like Singletary trying to stubbornly impose his will on the other and his own team. That hypocritically makes this about him not the team like he said he wants it to be.

The wanting to run on the other team at the end of games when they know it's coming is great theoretically, sounds great, and we all love it. But in practice just get a first down. Convert a single third down. Compounding the offensive impotence is the fact that Singletary seems comfortable with it. Zero for eleven on third downs. Just keep sending the offense out there to briefly bang their heads against a wall for a moment until the defense returns to work. Too much was asked of our defense and not enough of the offense.

The last thing I wanted to see was an eighth offensive coordinator in eight seasons. If this keeps up I could change my mind. I am not freaking out. The Niners are my team for better or worse, and we are better. But this is fair criticism. The true fans among us have put up with enough, long enough to voice dissatisfaction. Scott should tell Singletary to allow the offense to open up if he's the stick in the mud or tell him to tell Raye to do it.

Shaun Hill takes so much disrespect for what he can't do. All while his play and passer rating demonstrates he is successful at whatever he is allowed to do. Let him play and if his receivers keep dropping critical passes or he messes up you know what you have to correct. Not trying anything has become our way of playing defense for the other team.

Okay I am done. I couldn't keep a lid on it. Our players deserved the win and earned it. The coaches need to help not hinder the players. I will look forward to them taking this loss out on St. Louis. With another effort like this one against Atlanta we should make it to our bye four and one and have two weeks to prepare for our next opponent. I am grateful every one else in our division lost to keep us in first place. Soon I hope they will have to try to keep pace with us instead of us begging favors.

well said.

And we will have an 8th OC in 8 years. I have no doubt about that at all.