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Are we 2-0 if Alex was starting?

Are we 2-0 if Alex was starting?

Originally posted by sincalniner:
Originally posted by BigDaddy:
Originally posted by jones49:
Originally posted by sincalniner:
Originally posted by jones49:
Hell no...one turnover and we could have lost that 1st game. An overthrow to a Cardinal DB probably.

FYI there was a turnover and the D held! Just like they would had it been Alex that gave the ball up. And also don't forget that we now have WR's that can go and get the ball or if need be can and HAVE changed to DB's because of a poorly thrown ball (see Bruce v. Seahawks). DO NOT for one minute try and convince any rational person that we would not have won these games with Smith as the starter.... Don’t get it wrong, I think Hill is doing a fine job of not losing games because that’s all that he does. I’m just very nervous about the day that he will actually have to win one. Yes he did do it against the rams last year, but come on it was the rams, THE RAMS! Why in the hell was he in that position to begin with let’s not forget that he could NOT get it done against the ‘fins or the cards last year and don’t give me any crap about how “he drove them down there” or “Martz is stupid” or “Sims sucks” or “wah wah boo hoo”. Save it, you know for a damn fact had it been Alex in there you would be calling for his head on a pike. Also I don’t want to hear about the cards game this year because, yes he did take us down to score, but that was at the beginning of the 4th qtr. not at the end of the game like the three that I mentioned. Our defense still had to come out on the field and win that game for us, and of course they did. Ok, this little rant was not directed directly at the OP and I know it kind of seems that I’m against our boy Hill, which is so not true, as I said I think he is doing a fine job, I’m just sick of all the Smith hate that for some damn reason is still drilled so deeply into some of you, what gives? Do you believe for one minute that if the staff believed Smith was as worthless as some here think that he would still be on the team? Really?!


And one last thing, I fear the day is coming that many of you are going to turn on your beloved Hill, hopefully later rather than sooner, but the day will come just like you all turned on Smith.

DOn't hate cus I realize the truth before many of you. I mean still having faith in Alex now is like the Texans having faith in Dadiv Carr in 2007. Just crazy. It is what it is and I know what Alex is. BTW, I'm not a big Hill lover, hes just the best option till Davis takes over.

First off, I agree with you 100%, but good luck with try to convince "The Society for the Prevention of Cruelity Against Alex" members to understand it.

so let me get this straight. Instead of responding with a thought out reply to specific point of the argument made, it's going to be simply "well Alex sucks so there!" or "yeah man people how like to see his pee pee just don't get that we think he suck because he sucks!" is that how it works?

Look back earlier in the thread and read what I posted. And what's wrong with agreeing to another poster? That is why we're here.......isn't it?
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Dino:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
If Smith = Starter, then Season =

*waits for fan49, method, ceadder and memphis to chime in*


Something along the lines of:

"but he's only twenty-[blank] years old."

"it's his 4th OC in 4 years. You gotta give him time."

"he doesnt have the supporting cast. You need more than an all-pro RB to win games."

"we ruined him by letting him start his rookie season. Clearly, 5 years on the bench is invaluable to develop a player."

"remember the Zona and Seahawk games. Forget the other starts. Those 2 showcased the real Smith. Give him 2 years, and he'll be doing that consistently."

See you're missing the point. He needs 10 years on the bench to get ready. When he finally steps on the field we will finally win a Super Bowl. He will still be the youngest QB in another 4 or 5 years, right?
[ Edited by BigDaddy on Sep 23, 2009 at 7:15 PM ]
no because Alex Smith is a bust who had one decent season
Originally posted by billybonka:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
This thread proves why Hill is far superior than Alex Smith in terms of QB ability, and it also showcases why we are 2-0 with Hill, as opposed to 1-1 or 0-2 with Smith.


Quarterbacking

Every single Smith supporter in this thread has come up with a number of reasons to defend him. Whether it be the offense, OC, age, etc., the excuses are endless. People talk about teams NOT stacking the box while Smith was starter, which is DEAD WRONG. If anything, a primary concern for us after the 2-0 start in 07 was that teams would eventually stop Gore by stacking the box, and Smith would have to make accurate throws downfield to single covered receivers. Something that he had NOT done. Again, you people try to defend Smith by citing his arm strength (as compared to Hill's), which was never an issue. The issue was always ACCURACY; Smith was not accurate in his deep balls, and he never took advantage of his single covered receivers.

Two, it's amazing how all the Smith defenders keep reminding the Zone that Hill cant carry the team on his back. Right, cause the 4th quarter drive against Zona, where he faced 4 third downs and converted ALL with his arm, wasnt clutch. Oh, and when the running game got shot in the 3rd-4th quarter last week, and we needed to chew the clock.......and Hill did it with arm for over 9 minutes.....that wasnt clutch either, just luck. Good one. Please give me examples where Smith was able to sustain drives consistently throughout his career. Cite me examples where Smith led our team from behind, closed out games, etc.

You guys need an entire career's worth of stats (Smith) just to compare to Hill's first 2 games in 2009. The Hill supporters here arent even talking about last year, where Hill proved on many occasions that he could lead an offense from behind, with a new offensive scheme, with new offensive personnel, and with poise. Something that Smith did only erratically during his tenure as starter.

Third, please get rid of the smokescreens. You people sound like hypocrites when you discuss Smith with the coulda, shoulda, wouldas...........only to accuse Hill with the "almost", "lucky", and "defense bailed him out" garbage.

And please keep in mind..........Hill is doing all this with a coach that wants to play in the trenches and keep the game close. Smith had an OC (Turner. McCarthy) that wanted to open up the playbook and showcase his "ability". Something that he did not take advantage of.

I swear........considering what Hill has done to LEAD this team to victory in both games, you people are lame.

I refer to these people as the "Yeah Butts"! It's a long season and who knows, Smith may have to prove himself yet again if anything happens to Hill.

The problem is that if He still fails at that point, you would still be faced with the "Yeah Butts"!. ... and it will NEVER be Smiths fault! There will always be someone else to blame!
I find it funny and yet sad that there can be such strong hate for Alex that it makes some believe Shaun is a frigin super hero. Again I will say I DO think that Hill is doing a fine job, he IS getting the job done, BUT is he a probowler? Please people, please.
Originally posted by sincalniner:
I find it funny and yet sad that there can be such strong hate for Alex that it makes some believe Shaun is a frigin super hero. Again I will say I DO think that Hill is doing a fine job, he IS getting the job done, BUT is he a probowler? Please people, please.
who is saying he's a probowler?

he's a qb that makes good decisions, protects the ball and does just enough to win games.

if he's winning games, who gives a f*ck what he does?
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Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Dino:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
If Smith = Starter, then Season =

*waits for fan49, method, ceadder and memphis to chime in*


Something along the lines of:

"but he's only twenty-[blank] years old."

"it's his 4th OC in 4 years. You gotta give him time."

"he doesnt have the supporting cast. You need more than an all-pro RB to win games."

"we ruined him by letting him start his rookie season. Clearly, 5 years on the bench is invaluable to develop a player."

"remember the Zona and Seahawk games. Forget the other starts. Those 2 showcased the real Smith. Give him 2 years, and he'll be doing that consistently."

POTD!! So true!!
Originally posted by billybonka:
Originally posted by sincalniner:
I find it funny and yet sad that there can be such strong hate for Alex that it makes some believe Shaun is a frigin super hero. Again I will say I DO think that Hill is doing a fine job, he IS getting the job done, BUT is he a probowler? Please people, please.
who is saying he's a probowler?

he's a qb that makes good decisions, protects the ball and does just enough to win games.

if he's winning games, who gives a f*ck what he does?

What I'm saying is those people who attack Alex are simply angry and I don't feel they are being completely rational when bashing him on this board. Now, do I believe that he should be starting over Shaun, NO if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Originally posted by sincalniner:
Originally posted by billybonka:
Originally posted by sincalniner:
I find it funny and yet sad that there can be such strong hate for Alex that it makes some believe Shaun is a frigin super hero. Again I will say I DO think that Hill is doing a fine job, he IS getting the job done, BUT is he a probowler? Please people, please.
who is saying he's a probowler?

he's a qb that makes good decisions, protects the ball and does just enough to win games.

if he's winning games, who gives a f*ck what he does?

What I'm saying is those people who attack Alex are simply angry and I don't feel they are being completely rational when bashing him on this board. Now, do I believe that he should be starting over Shaun, NO if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I think many are ready for him to just leave. Sometimes it just has to be that way. Sing just had to give him a fighting chance to prove him. I mean he did get a pretty bad rap. There is no way he is a niner next yr unless he comes in and is impressive. We already know we should be able to win games with a game manager.

Originally posted by sincalniner:
Originally posted by billybonka:
Originally posted by sincalniner:
I find it funny and yet sad that there can be such strong hate for Alex that it makes some believe Shaun is a frigin super hero. Again I will say I DO think that Hill is doing a fine job, he IS getting the job done, BUT is he a probowler? Please people, please.
who is saying he's a probowler?

he's a qb that makes good decisions, protects the ball and does just enough to win games.

if he's winning games, who gives a f*ck what he does?

What I'm saying is those people who attack Alex are simply angry and I don't feel they are being completely rational when bashing him on this board. Now, do I believe that he should be starting over Shaun, NO if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I'm gonna have to roll with bonka on this.
Rationally:
Shaun Hill is using his limited abilities to win us game. The mental capacity of his play is more important than being able to throw the ball 80 yards because he will check down, notice man coverage, step up in the pocket and drive off his back leg (although it's not pretty lol), and find open receivers. Case and point -- Alex Smith has the physical tools yet no mental toughness and awareness... hence he is sitting behind a "career backup." Hill's play IS ugly, and it IS unconventional -- and I do think he needs to work on looking off the safety if he's ever going to progress -- but he WINS GAME. He HOLDS LEADS. He put us in a position to SCORE. What else do you need from a QB?

edit: I mean for proof -- Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl with the same situation we're in (good defense -- well, they were ELITE and an okay offense w/ a small-armed, quick-decision QB)
[ Edited by chico49erfan on Sep 23, 2009 at 8:49 PM ]
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
It is totally ridiculous how some of you can bag on Smith after the way the former regime handled his development. You guys act like it is his fault that he didn't succeed, when it has everything to do with the way he was mishandled. As far as the talent level being the same as it was when he last played...anyone that thinks it is the same (or worse) needs to take a minute and try to regain their touch with reality. Hill didn't outplay Smith this preseason, in fact he mostly looked worse than Smith, and he definitely has not lit up the world to this point, he hasn't even looked as good as he did last year. I give him credit for not making mistakes to this point, but Smith could do everything that Hill has done to this point and probably more, and may be the better long term option of the two. I just hope he keeps on working with the QB coach to get back into game shape. Like it or not Hill barely won the starting spot from a guy that had been out for 18 months with a major shoulder injury, and kinda got it by default. He surely didn't play any better than Smith, in fact, he looked more confused than Smith in the second preseason game. If Smith is so bad, then why couldn't Hill blow him away? The answer is that Smith is not as bad as some of you proclaim him to be, some of you guys are just knee jerk reactionaries that are predisposed to wildly overreact to even minor occurrences.

Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Would Alex Smith have converted 4 third downs in a row on that drive in Arizona ? Or is it more likely he wouldve thrown it out of bounds, just to be "safe" ? You think Smith coulf effectively lead a drive that involves at least 14-15 passing plays without turning the ball over ?

If you think Yes, the you're obviously kidding yourself. Alex Smith was inconsistent, and had to rely HEAVILY on Gore's legs to succeed. Hill has shown that he can beat a SB contender with NO running game + playing on the road.

Get over it. Alex is a bust, and that has been acknowledged by the majority of the media covering this league.

I am not an Alex lover by an means but let’s be fair. Hill has rode Gore’s legs just as much as Alex did in 07. Without Gore last week, we lose plain and simple. Neither QB is great. Both are servicable at best.

How do you deduce that ? Week 1, no running game......Hill comes through. How do you know that Hill couldnt lead us if Gore was shut down again in Week 2 ? Case in point: look at the 4th quarter drive that Hill leads (with his arm) that chew up half the quarter. Did Smith ever do that for us ?

Actually, yes Smith did. In Dec 2006, in Seattle, in horrible conditions. The same game that Heitmann broke his leg. Smith led a drive in the 4th quarter that consumed a lot of the clock and scored on a naked bootleg. This against a very good Seahawks team in hostile territory. I know, I was at the game.
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
As much as I have given up on small hands I think we'd still be 2-0. Shaun Hill was steady and consistent when he needed to be but had a bunch of plays disrupted because of his pocket presence and side armed delivery. I think Alex, against the Cards and Hawks would do a little better in the passing game and hence, we'd still probably win and be 2-0.

There is no way we win against Arizona... Smith is simply incapable of continuously moving the chains like Hill did on that drive.
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Would Alex Smith have converted 4 third downs in a row on that drive in Arizona ? Or is it more likely he wouldve thrown it out of bounds, just to be "safe" ? You think Smith coulf effectively lead a drive that involves at least 14-15 passing plays without turning the ball over ?

If you think Yes, the you're obviously kidding yourself. Alex Smith was inconsistent, and had to rely HEAVILY on Gore's legs to succeed. Hill has shown that he can beat a SB contender with NO running game + playing on the road.

Get over it. Alex is a bust, and that has been acknowledged by the majority of the media covering this league.

I am not an Alex lover by an means but let’s be fair. Hill has rode Gore’s legs just as much as Alex did in 07. Without Gore last week, we lose plain and simple. Neither QB is great. Both are servicable at best.

How do you deduce that ? Week 1, no running game......Hill comes through. How do you know that Hill couldnt lead us if Gore was shut down again in Week 2 ? Case in point: look at the 4th quarter drive that Hill leads (with his arm) that chew up half the quarter. Did Smith ever do that for us ?

Actually, yes Smith did. In Dec 2006, in Seattle, in horrible conditions. The same game that Heitmann broke his leg. Smith led a drive in the 4th quarter that consumed a lot of the clock and scored on a naked bootleg. This against a very good Seahawks team in hostile territory. I know, I was at the game.

That was when Gore had rushed for 200+ yards and was absolutely torching them in the 4th quarter... The cardinals new we had to pass and still could not stop Hill.

Im tired of people using that game as support of Smith's potential - he made one great play which was when he avoided the sack, rolled out and completed the TD pass to Gore... In the 1st half - he was simply awful.
Originally posted by ZRF80:
This thread proves why Hill is far superior than Alex Smith in terms of QB ability, and it also showcases why we are 2-0 with Hill, as opposed to 1-1 or 0-2 with Smith.


Quarterbacking

Every single Smith supporter in this thread has come up with a number of reasons to defend him. Whether it be the offense, OC, age, etc., the excuses are endless. People talk about teams NOT stacking the box while Smith was starter, which is DEAD WRONG. If anything, a primary concern for us after the 2-0 start in 07 was that teams would eventually stop Gore by stacking the box, and Smith would have to make accurate throws downfield to single covered receivers. Something that he had NOT done. Again, you people try to defend Smith by citing his arm strength (as compared to Hill's), which was never an issue. The issue was always ACCURACY; Smith was not accurate in his deep balls, and he never took advantage of his single covered receivers.

Two, it's amazing how all the Smith defenders keep reminding the Zone that Hill cant carry the team on his back. Right, cause the 4th quarter drive against Zona, where he faced 4 third downs and converted ALL with his arm, wasnt clutch. Oh, and when the running game got shot in the 3rd-4th quarter last week, and we needed to chew the clock.......and Hill did it with arm for over 9 minutes.....that wasnt clutch either, just luck. Good one. Please give me examples where Smith was able to sustain drives consistently throughout his career. Cite me examples where Smith led our team from behind, closed out games, etc.

You guys need an entire career's worth of stats (Smith) just to compare to Hill's first 2 games in 2009. The Hill supporters here arent even talking about last year, where Hill proved on many occasions that he could lead an offense from behind, with a new offensive scheme, with new offensive personnel, and with poise. Something that Smith did only erratically during his tenure as starter.

Third, please get rid of the smokescreens. You people sound like hypocrites when you discuss Smith with the coulda, shoulda, wouldas...........only to accuse Hill with the "almost", "lucky", and "defense bailed him out" garbage.

And please keep in mind..........Hill is doing all this with a coach that wants to play in the trenches and keep the game close. Smith had an OC (Turner. McCarthy) that wanted to open up the playbook and showcase his "ability". Something that he did not take advantage of.

I swear........considering what Hill has done to LEAD this team to victory in both games, you people are lame.

This sums up everything about the 2 QBs. Alex had his chances to show what he could do, but never really did. I only remember 1 game where he actually came back and won a game and that was against Seattle. He also played like crap the 1st half of that game.