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Jason Hill

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I don't have a problem with Zeigler, at-least this year.......it seems he put on alittle more weight than previous years...and he has caught almost everything thrown his way...

the one WR I do have a problem with is Josh Morgan....I don't know what he brings to our starting offense....

I'd rather have our Depth chart

Crabtree
Ginn
Zeigler or Jason Hill
then Morgan....


I have seen him get caught from behind on numerous occasions.....as well as drop a wide open pass, because "it came down like a punt"......sure its funny, but we can't be having those types of excuses from a WR during the regular season....its not like there were defenders near him that messed with his concentration.....he just dropped a catch.

Morgan is more of a #4 or #5 or cut from the team type of guy. He had 1 good PRESEASON game vs. the Packers years ago and everybody thinks he's a superstar. I don't get it. He never did anything before and he never did anything since. He gets caught from behind all day, complains the ball comes down like a punt, drops the ball all the time and tips the ball into the air for interceptions.

What exactly is Josh Morgan good at? Please tell me.


Morgan is a possession receiver and a top 5 blocking WR downfield. Everyone seems to think we need a superstar at every position. Morgan, for everything he does, and considering the offenses he has played in, would probably rank around league average if you compared him to every other team's Number 2.

Not hating on Ziggy, he should be our 4th this year, but the Morgan hate on this forum is ridiculous.

Morgan is garbage. And we need a #2 WR.

Just some superb analysis and another well thought out post on Niner Talk.
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I don't have a problem with Zeigler, at-least this year.......it seems he put on alittle more weight than previous years...and he has caught almost everything thrown his way...

the one WR I do have a problem with is Josh Morgan....I don't know what he brings to our starting offense....

I'd rather have our Depth chart

Crabtree
Ginn
Zeigler or Jason Hill
then Morgan....


I have seen him get caught from behind on numerous occasions.....as well as drop a wide open pass, because "it came down like a punt"......sure its funny, but we can't be having those types of excuses from a WR during the regular season....its not like there were defenders near him that messed with his concentration.....he just dropped a catch.

Morgan is more of a #4 or #5 or cut from the team type of guy. He had 1 good PRESEASON game vs. the Packers years ago and everybody thinks he's a superstar. I don't get it. He never did anything before and he never did anything since. He gets caught from behind all day, complains the ball comes down like a punt, drops the ball all the time and tips the ball into the air for interceptions.

What exactly is Josh Morgan good at? Please tell me.


Morgan is a possession receiver and a top 5 blocking WR downfield. Everyone seems to think we need a superstar at every position. Morgan, for everything he does, and considering the offenses he has played in, would probably rank around league average if you compared him to every other team's Number 2.

Not hating on Ziggy, he should be our 4th this year, but the Morgan hate on this forum is ridiculous.

Morgan is garbage. And we need a #2 WR.

Just some superb analysis and another well thought out post on Niner Talk.

Have you watched the games the last several years? Please tell me when this guy has been good.
The first two years that Hill was here I pulled for him cause he was a local product but he has had a lot of lingering small health issues and he isn't consistent. Throughout this camp Ziggy has performed and caught pretty much everything. Yeah I agree he has a small frame but he can leap and he aggressively goes for the ball. This season the coaches have said he is among the best route runners and the QB's have chosen to throw to him more in practice cause they trust him to come down with the ball , not just one QB either. This year I hope Ziggy makes the roster.

GO ZIGGY GO
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I don't have a problem with Zeigler, at-least this year.......it seems he put on alittle more weight than previous years...and he has caught almost everything thrown his way...

the one WR I do have a problem with is Josh Morgan....I don't know what he brings to our starting offense....

I'd rather have our Depth chart

Crabtree
Ginn
Zeigler or Jason Hill
then Morgan....


I have seen him get caught from behind on numerous occasions.....as well as drop a wide open pass, because "it came down like a punt"......sure its funny, but we can't be having those types of excuses from a WR during the regular season....its not like there were defenders near him that messed with his concentration.....he just dropped a catch.

Morgan is more of a #4 or #5 or cut from the team type of guy. He had 1 good PRESEASON game vs. the Packers years ago and everybody thinks he's a superstar. I don't get it. He never did anything before and he never did anything since. He gets caught from behind all day, complains the ball comes down like a punt, drops the ball all the time and tips the ball into the air for interceptions.

What exactly is Josh Morgan good at? Please tell me.


Morgan is a possession receiver and a top 5 blocking WR downfield. Everyone seems to think we need a superstar at every position. Morgan, for everything he does, and considering the offenses he has played in, would probably rank around league average if you compared him to every other team's Number 2.

Not hating on Ziggy, he should be our 4th this year, but the Morgan hate on this forum is ridiculous.

Morgan is garbage. And we need a #2 WR.

Just some superb analysis and another well thought out post on Niner Talk.

Have you watched the games the last several years? Please tell me when this guy has been good.

Yes, I do watch all the games, and am able to realize that he is a legit downfield blocker and was a big part of Gore's long runs last year. The fact that you watch the games and don't see that makes me question your football Knowledge.

As for his receiving, in terms of his statistics, I decided to do a bit of research.

I took every teams #2 WR and calculated the percentage of their receiving yards relative to the Team's overall passing Yardage. Then, I took all of the percentages
and averaged it out to determine the Average #2 NFL WR Receiving yard PCT.

The league average came out to 18.5 PCT of the Passing Offense yards. Morgan was calculated at 17.2 PCT of the Niner passing offense. Not too far from the league average.

So really, after the analysis, I stand by my assertion that Morgan is right around a league average #2 Wideout. Not a superstar by any means, but overall solid.

Next time, if you want to make bold statements, please do some research before hand to back up your statements, instead of just resorting to lame, 10 word posts with no substance. Thanks in advance.
[ Edited by TheAcpHater on Aug 30, 2010 at 2:50 AM ]
TheAcpHater, yes Josh is a good run blocking WR......imo, the problem with having a possession receiver like Josh is, we already have one on the other side with Crabtree....who is better.

I love Crabtree, but he is not a burner....he is quick...but will not stretch the field on a consistent basis......and Josh certainly hasn't/ won't either..

that is why I said, what does he bring to our starting offense.....

if you have been watching most of our games you would also know that Jason Hill is one hell of a run Blocking WR.....as well as on Special teams....even with his roster spot on the line he was a key blocker for Spurlock last year against San Diego for a big return...

as much as I want a burner to start opposite of Crabtree....unfortunately Ginn seems to be one of the Dumbest downfield Blocking WRs I have ever seen in my life....

sure it was only 2 plays, but omg I just couldn't believe it...... the first dumb move was for Gore huge run, Ginn must've failed Physics class or something because for some reason even though Gore was already ahead of everyone, Mr. Genius chose of all players, a F'n Lineman to jump at.....he got destroyed in front of everyone watching the game. The second dumb move was on Delanie's huge play....this knucklehead has a player basically following him from behind.....going toward an angle to stop Delanie....and Ginn goes and tries to block someone BEHIND Walker...needless to say the guy shadowing Ginn made the stop.....

but still I would rather him be out there starting to keep the defense honest....even though he might not be a competent down field block, I've seen him do well on the initial block of CBs in front of him after the snap....but his presence would help out the run by the defense having to keep a Safety to cover over the top.

with Josh out there, we also wastes plays on the guy....I'm talking about our patented WR screen to one of our slowest WRs....atleast with Ginn, he is quicker.
[ Edited by Afrikan on Aug 30, 2010 at 3:17 AM ]
Originally posted by Afrikan:
TheAcpHater, yes Josh is a good run blocking WR......imo, the problem with having a possession receiver like Josh is, we already have one on the other side with Crabtree....who is better.

I love Crabtree, but he is not a burner....he is quick...but will not stretch the field on a consistent basis......and Josh certainly hasn't/ won't either..

that is why I said, what does he bring to our starting offense.....

if you have been watching most of our games you would also know that Jason Hill is one hell of a run Blocking WR.....as well as on Special teams....even with his roster spot on the line he was a key blocker for Spurlock last year against San Diego for a big return...

as much as I want a burner to start opposite of Crabtree....unfortunately Ginn seems to be one of the Dumbest downfield Blocking WRs I have ever seen in my life....

sure it was only 2 plays, but omg I just couldn't believe it...... the first dumb move was for Gore huge run, Ginn must've failed Physics class or something because for some reason even though Gore was already ahead of everyone, Mr. Genius chose of all players, a F'n Lineman to jump at.....he got destroyed in front of everyone watching the game. The second dumb move was on Delanie's huge play....this knucklehead has a player basically following him from behind.....going toward an angle to stop Delanie....and Ginn goes and tries to block someone BEHIND Walker...needless to say the guy shadowing Ginn made the stop.....

but still I would rather him be out there starting to keep the defense honest....even though he might not be a competent down field block, I've seen him do well on the initial block of CBs in front of him after the snap....but his presence would help out the run by the defense having to keep a Safety to cover over the top.

with Josh out there, we also wastes plays on the guy....I'm talking about our patented WR screen to one of our slowest WRs....atleast with Ginn, he is quicker.

All good points. I wouldn't deny that I would be intrigued by Ginn starting opposite of Crabtree, and I'm not making Morgan out to be a world beater.

What I take exception to, is typical NT douchebaggery , aka "Morgan SUXKS" and not saying anything to back it up. Morgan is far from sucking, he's an okay receiver who helps out the run game, No not a superstar, possibly should be in the slot with Ginn starting, but again, he DOES NOT suck. These statements such as the one SanDiegoNiner make is a reason why NT is a laughing stock.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I don't have a problem with Zeigler, at-least this year.......it seems he put on alittle more weight than previous years...and he has caught almost everything thrown his way...

the one WR I do have a problem with is Josh Morgan....I don't know what he brings to our starting offense....

I'd rather have our Depth chart

Crabtree
Ginn
Zeigler or Jason Hill
then Morgan....


I have seen him get caught from behind on numerous occasions.....as well as drop a wide open pass, because "it came down like a punt"......sure its funny, but we can't be having those types of excuses from a WR during the regular season....its not like there were defenders near him that messed with his concentration.....he just dropped a catch.

Morgan is more of a #4 or #5 or cut from the team type of guy. He had 1 good PRESEASON game vs. the Packers years ago and everybody thinks he's a superstar. I don't get it. He never did anything before and he never did anything since. He gets caught from behind all day, complains the ball comes down like a punt, drops the ball all the time and tips the ball into the air for interceptions.

What exactly is Josh Morgan good at? Please tell me.


Morgan is a possession receiver and a top 5 blocking WR downfield. Everyone seems to think we need a superstar at every position. Morgan, for everything he does, and considering the offenses he has played in, would probably rank around league average if you compared him to every other team's Number 2.

Not hating on Ziggy, he should be our 4th this year, but the Morgan hate on this forum is ridiculous.

Morgan is garbage. And we need a #2 WR.

Just some superb analysis and another well thought out post on Niner Talk.

Have you watched the games the last several years? Please tell me when this guy has been good.

Well he hasn't been bad either. I think that both Morgan and Hill (if they make the team this year) need to step up or move on. Morgan is only in his what 3rd year? Hill is in his 4th. That puts Hill on the bubble more than it does Morgan. I don't know what Hill did to Sullivan, but Lelie did the same thing I suspect. Sully is the problem I think. Not the Receivers. Lelie wasn't great but he was solid. Unfortunately we had a crap OC at the time and the WR Coach can't coach. Is it any wonder our guys drop passes all over the place and that they don't last long in the league?

I bet I could do a better job than Sullivan. It's not THAT hard. Know your routes. Know your Stablemates routes. Keep your hands between the pads when you are blocking. See their name don't F'N hit em. If the ball is catchable then you better haul it in and know you're gonna get hit so PROTECT the ball. If you can only get one mitt on it then knock it the F@ck down, don't tip it into the air cause you ain't Jerry and you ain't one handing it. If your QB is on the move then it's time for scramble drills, come back to him and give the man a target. This is SIMPLE F@CKIN STUFF. I don't know what Sully does all day but on Sundays it doesn't look like he goes over this sh@t with them. Only Routes seem to be important to that guy. Routes are great but if they can't catch the F@ckin ball then I could care less if they run sloppy routes as long as they can catch the ball.

Sully IMHO is the guy that should be on the bubble. If his unit fails then HE fails. Period. I don't see how people can consistently hate on any one player when the issue isn't the players it's the Coach. Get Jerry, get anyone, get rid of Sully. I've been fed up with his dog and pony act for a very long time.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I don't have a problem with Zeigler, at-least this year.......it seems he put on alittle more weight than previous years...and he has caught almost everything thrown his way...

the one WR I do have a problem with is Josh Morgan....I don't know what he brings to our starting offense....

I'd rather have our Depth chart

Crabtree
Ginn
Zeigler or Jason Hill
then Morgan....


I have seen him get caught from behind on numerous occasions.....as well as drop a wide open pass, because "it came down like a punt"......sure its funny, but we can't be having those types of excuses from a WR during the regular season....its not like there were defenders near him that messed with his concentration.....he just dropped a catch.

Morgan is more of a #4 or #5 or cut from the team type of guy. He had 1 good PRESEASON game vs. the Packers years ago and everybody thinks he's a superstar. I don't get it. He never did anything before and he never did anything since. He gets caught from behind all day, complains the ball comes down like a punt, drops the ball all the time and tips the ball into the air for interceptions.

What exactly is Josh Morgan good at? Please tell me.


Morgan is a possession receiver and a top 5 blocking WR downfield. Everyone seems to think we need a superstar at every position. Morgan, for everything he does, and considering the offenses he has played in, would probably rank around league average if you compared him to every other team's Number 2.

Not hating on Ziggy, he should be our 4th this year, but the Morgan hate on this forum is ridiculous.

Morgan is garbage. And we need a #2 WR.

looks to me like he isn't afraid to fight for the ball in traffic.

Originally posted by sdninerfan:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I don't have a problem with Zeigler, at-least this year.......it seems he put on alittle more weight than previous years...and he has caught almost everything thrown his way...

the one WR I do have a problem with is Josh Morgan....I don't know what he brings to our starting offense....

I'd rather have our Depth chart

Crabtree
Ginn
Zeigler or Jason Hill
then Morgan....


I have seen him get caught from behind on numerous occasions.....as well as drop a wide open pass, because "it came down like a punt"......sure its funny, but we can't be having those types of excuses from a WR during the regular season....its not like there were defenders near him that messed with his concentration.....he just dropped a catch.

Morgan is more of a #4 or #5 or cut from the team type of guy. He had 1 good PRESEASON game vs. the Packers years ago and everybody thinks he's a superstar. I don't get it. He never did anything before and he never did anything since. He gets caught from behind all day, complains the ball comes down like a punt, drops the ball all the time and tips the ball into the air for interceptions.

What exactly is Josh Morgan good at? Please tell me.


Morgan is a possession receiver and a top 5 blocking WR downfield. Everyone seems to think we need a superstar at every position. Morgan, for everything he does, and considering the offenses he has played in, would probably rank around league average if you compared him to every other team's Number 2.

Not hating on Ziggy, he should be our 4th this year, but the Morgan hate on this forum is ridiculous.

Morgan is garbage. And we need a #2 WR.

looks to me like he isn't afraid to fight for the ball in traffic.


He offers no analysis or football knowledge in his posts. Just lame 10 word responses designed to bash players without any reason or logic. We have a few posters in NT that operate this way.
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by TheAcpHater:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I don't have a problem with Zeigler, at-least this year.......it seems he put on alittle more weight than previous years...and he has caught almost everything thrown his way...

the one WR I do have a problem with is Josh Morgan....I don't know what he brings to our starting offense....

I'd rather have our Depth chart

Crabtree
Ginn
Zeigler or Jason Hill
then Morgan....


I have seen him get caught from behind on numerous occasions.....as well as drop a wide open pass, because "it came down like a punt"......sure its funny, but we can't be having those types of excuses from a WR during the regular season....its not like there were defenders near him that messed with his concentration.....he just dropped a catch.

Morgan is more of a #4 or #5 or cut from the team type of guy. He had 1 good PRESEASON game vs. the Packers years ago and everybody thinks he's a superstar. I don't get it. He never did anything before and he never did anything since. He gets caught from behind all day, complains the ball comes down like a punt, drops the ball all the time and tips the ball into the air for interceptions.

What exactly is Josh Morgan good at? Please tell me.


Morgan is a possession receiver and a top 5 blocking WR downfield. Everyone seems to think we need a superstar at every position. Morgan, for everything he does, and considering the offenses he has played in, would probably rank around league average if you compared him to every other team's Number 2.

Not hating on Ziggy, he should be our 4th this year, but the Morgan hate on this forum is ridiculous.

Morgan is garbage. And we need a #2 WR.

Just some superb analysis and another well thought out post on Niner Talk.

Have you watched the games the last several years? Please tell me when this guy has been good.

Well he hasn't been bad either. I think that both Morgan and Hill (if they make the team this year) need to step up or move on. Morgan is only in his what 3rd year? Hill is in his 4th. That puts Hill on the bubble more than it does Morgan. I don't know what Hill did to Sullivan, but Lelie did the same thing I suspect. Sully is the problem I think. Not the Receivers. Lelie wasn't great but he was solid. Unfortunately we had a crap OC at the time and the WR Coach can't coach. Is it any wonder our guys drop passes all over the place and that they don't last long in the league?

I bet I could do a better job than Sullivan. It's not THAT hard. Know your routes. Know your Stablemates routes. Keep your hands between the pads when you are blocking. See their name don't F'N hit em. If the ball is catchable then you better haul it in and know you're gonna get hit so PROTECT the ball. If you can only get one mitt on it then knock it the F@ck down, don't tip it into the air cause you ain't Jerry and you ain't one handing it. If your QB is on the move then it's time for scramble drills, come back to him and give the man a target. This is SIMPLE F@CKIN STUFF. I don't know what Sully does all day but on Sundays it doesn't look like he goes over this sh@t with them. Only Routes seem to be important to that guy. Routes are great but if they can't catch the F@ckin ball then I could care less if they run sloppy routes as long as they can catch the ball.

Sully IMHO is the guy that should be on the bubble. If his unit fails then HE fails. Period. I don't see how people can consistently hate on any one player when the issue isn't the players it's the Coach. Get Jerry, get anyone, get rid of Sully. I've been fed up with his dog and pony act for a very long time.

~Ceadder

Lelie isnt even in the league anymore. He had 11 catches for us and like 10 on Oakland the yr after
All this Morgan is garbage talk is just that...garbage. He may not be a superstar, but he's big, fast, normally catches the ball (and he can get deep) and is an excellent blocker. If the argument is Hill vs Morgan, then the results pretty much speak for themselves. Jason really hasn't distinguished himself when he's played...his injuries have kept him off the field too much...I like the kid, but maybe he'd be better off on another team. Sometimes things just don't work out for a player...and for a variety of reasons his future on the Niners seems doubtful. Singletary has added Ginn and Williams...and Zeigler's clearly outperformed Hill. He'll simply be the odd man out...
  • BobS
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To many times Hill gets hit in the hands with the ball and drops it, I have given up on him. Not proud of him, but I will take Morgan over Hill, he appears more consistent.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I don't have a problem with Zeigler, at-least this year.......it seems he put on alittle more weight than previous years...and he has caught almost everything thrown his way...

the one WR I do have a problem with is Josh Morgan....I don't know what he brings to our starting offense....

I'd rather have our Depth chart

Crabtree
Ginn
Zeigler or Jason Hill
then Morgan....


I have seen him get caught from behind on numerous occasions.....as well as drop a wide open pass, because "it came down like a punt"......sure its funny, but we can't be having those types of excuses from a WR during the regular season....its not like there were defenders near him that messed with his concentration.....he just dropped a catch.

Morgan is more of a #4 or #5 or cut from the team type of guy. He had 1 good PRESEASON game vs. the Packers years ago and everybody thinks he's a superstar. I don't get it. He never did anything before and he never did anything since. He gets caught from behind all day, complains the ball comes down like a punt, drops the ball all the time and tips the ball into the air for interceptions.

What exactly is Josh Morgan good at? Please tell me.


I would have to agree with these 2 posts and have essentially said the same for quite a while now. Morgan is tough and a good blocker, and thusly is a Sing fave. To me, he's an underachiever who teased us with hints of potential which never really materialized. And, those guys who describe him as fast must be ignoring the times he's been caught from behind and appears to be running in sand! Ziggy has earned a job with this team and I wouldn't be sad if Morgan was demoted. As for Hill, there must be a reason he has not earned the trust of not only the coaches, but his teammates as well (esp the QB's).
Originally posted by blizzuntz:


Lelie isnt even in the league anymore. He had 11 catches for us and like 10 on Oakland the yr after

man I saw that big headed dude outside a club in the City....while every other 9er in the club was dressed all nice like Vernon, here comes Lelie outside late asshell in some f'n sweats trying to parkinglot pimp....not some slick Al Davis windbreakers but some f'n grey sweats......chasing some nasty bytches

*sigh* smh...apparently, football isn't the only thing he doesn't work hard at.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by bret:
Dominique Ziegler weighs 5 lbs. more than Ted Ginn and about 5 lbs. less than Jerry Rice played. He has earned the trust of his coaches and his teammates with his preparation an performance.

Jason Hill underproduced in college and wasn't even in the early rounds conversation until he pulled off a shocking 40 time. And yet, he's never played to that speed. And though he has had a few big catches he hasn't executed his assignments well enough or consistently enough over 3 years to be anything more than a guy fighting for the last spot.

Maybe Afrikan and Sandiegoniner grew up with Hill, and if so, then I can understand the blind loyalty. But if you're Niner fans, at some point you have to start to accept the fact that, for once, we have a coaching staff that DOESN'T have an agenda - unless you call giving the roster spots to the people who show up at work on time, prepared, in command of their assignments and giving 100% on every play having an agenda.

Frankly, that's the kind of agenda I'm happy to support.

He produced very well in college. Check your facts on that one.

Perhaps I oversimplified. He had an excellent junior year, but maybe was a victim of raised expectations when his senior year wasn't nearly so stellar. None-the-less, it doesn't change my point that his ascent into the third round was driven more by scouts' belief in his potential than his actual results on the field.

Going into his fourth year, we're still waiting for that potential to be realized.