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Originally posted by nflguy49:
The 49ers have all the leverage. They have the money and they own exclusive rights to Crabtree. All Crabtree has is the ability to ruin his career and lose millions of dollars by sitting out the season.
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jame-gumb:Originally posted by KRS-1:
From all speculation we have heard it does not sound like we are negotiating at all.
And we don't have to. SF offered Crabtree what he's worth. He was the No. 10 pick in the draft. He was offerd more than the 11th and less than the ninth. Crabtree has ZERO leverage. If I were SF, I'd laugh at him and his agent if they tried to negotiate from their position. Most logical people would.
Worth is based on what the market will offer.
Zero leverage is a bad argument. Crabtree doesn't have to play. That is his leverage.
As Mike Sando astutely pointed out, Crabtree was a "value" pick, not a "need", pick by the Niners. Given the run heavy offense the Niners intend to employ, they will not be lost this year if Crabtree sits out. If the Niners were trying to use the same kind of offense as an Arizona with the WR's they have now, then the Niners would be quite desperate for Crabtree and he would have some leverage.
The Niners would LIKE to have Crabtree, but do not NEED him. Crabtree would like to have the money the Niners do have, but apparently, according to Sanders, he doesn't need it. If Crabtree really doesn't need millions of dollars right now, and doesn't care about playing in the NFL right now, wasting a year of productivity and potential money earning, and he has no plans to budge, and, the Niners, who have everything to lose if they cave-in to his terrorist demands, then I can see a year long hold out.
In short, though Crabtree appears to have talent, his leverage is miniscule, because, as of yet, he is an unproven NFL talent, and the Niners do not NEED him for a run heavy offense. In the words of a very wise man, "you can't miss what you don't have." The Niners will get value for Crabtree whether or not he signs, while Crabtree risks the possibility of ending up somewhere else where he will make less money.
Good luck Crabs, you'll need it.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by nflguy49:
The 49ers have all the leverage. They have the money and they own exclusive rights to Crabtree. All Crabtree has is the ability to ruin his career and lose millions of dollars by sitting out the season.
How many times will people robotically make this first statement above. It is a mindless statement. Crabtree can sit out the season. That is his leverage.
Why is this so complicated?
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jame-gumb:Originally posted by KRS-1:
From all speculation we have heard it does not sound like we are negotiating at all.
And we don't have to. SF offered Crabtree what he's worth. He was the No. 10 pick in the draft. He was offerd more than the 11th and less than the ninth. Crabtree has ZERO leverage. If I were SF, I'd laugh at him and his agent if they tried to negotiate from their position. Most logical people would.
Worth is based on what the market will offer.
Zero leverage is a bad argument. Crabtree doesn't have to play. That is his leverage.
As Mike Sando astutely pointed out, Crabtree was a "value" pick, not a "need", pick by the Niners. Given the run heavy offense the Niners intend to employ, they will not be lost this year if Crabtree sits out. If the Niners were trying to use the same kind of offense as an Arizona with the WR's they have now, then the Niners would be quite desperate for Crabtree and he would have some leverage.
The Niners would LIKE to have Crabtree, but do not NEED him. Crabtree would like to have the money the Niners do have, but apparently, according to Sanders, he doesn't need it. If Crabtree really doesn't need millions of dollars right now, and doesn't care about playing in the NFL right now, wasting a year of productivity and potential money earning, and he has no plans to budge, and, the Niners, who have everything to lose if they cave-in to his terrorist demands, then I can see a year long hold out.
In short, though Crabtree appears to have talent, his leverage is miniscule, because, as of yet, he is an unproven NFL talent, and the Niners do not NEED him for a run heavy offense. In the words of a very wise man, "you can't miss what you don't have." The Niners will get value for Crabtree whether or not he signs, while Crabtree risks the possibility of ending up somewhere else where he will make less money.
Good luck Crabs, you'll need it.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by nflguy49:
The 49ers have all the leverage. They have the money and they own exclusive rights to Crabtree. All Crabtree has is the ability to ruin his career and lose millions of dollars by sitting out the season.
How many times will people robotically make this first statement above. It is a mindless statement. Crabtree can sit out the season. That is his leverage.
Why is this so complicated?
Originally posted by jreff22:Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jame-gumb:Originally posted by MadDog49er:
That is another poor argument. Crabtree does have leverage, as the Niners cannot force him to put on a uniform. The time I see Shaun Hill walking behind Crabtree with a gun pointed to his head is the time when the statement you made is accurate.
The lesson learned will not be the Niners are tough guys, and won't crack. It is that they lost their first rounder in a contract dispute.
You are choosing to only see things through one side of the lens. Try looking from another angle.
What leverage does he have? He loses a year of football and will likely get less money next year. SF loses a first round pick, or it could be downgraded to a second or third round pick. Big f**kin' deal.
Give me another angle from which to look at this situation. I've looked at this from Crabtree's angle. Not to get all biblical, but all I see is greed and pride.
edit: And so far, all you've done is tell me I'm making poor arguments without backing it up. You haven't made a decent argument yet (that I've seen).
Also, I really do want to know your opinion on what Crabtree could be traded for in March.
As for my arguments, I have written extensively in this thread and in another thread. In some posts, they were as long as a typical newspaper article. It would take another hour or so to retype the enter argument, but please feel free to dig back a couple hundred pages if you wish.
As for the value that Crabtree could be traded for, nobody knows at this point. It may be that a team is willing to offer a mid-late first rounder, or something outside the first round. Each team will need to assess their needs after the season.
Regarding his special situation that you have referred to multiple times, do you agree with Deion that Crab's should be paid in the $30mil range...or do you agree that, that is crazy?
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:Originally posted by RedWaltz24:Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jame-gumb:Originally posted by KRS-1:
From all speculation we have heard it does not sound like we are negotiating at all.
And we don't have to. SF offered Crabtree what he's worth. He was the No. 10 pick in the draft. He was offerd more than the 11th and less than the ninth. Crabtree has ZERO leverage. If I were SF, I'd laugh at him and his agent if they tried to negotiate from their position. Most logical people would.
Worth is based on what the market will offer.
Zero leverage is a bad argument. Crabtree doesn't have to play. That is his leverage.
As Mike Sando astutely pointed out, Crabtree was a "value" pick, not a "need", pick by the Niners. Given the run heavy offense the Niners intend to employ, they will not be lost this year if Crabtree sits out. If the Niners were trying to use the same kind of offense as an Arizona with the WR's they have now, then the Niners would be quite desperate for Crabtree and he would have some leverage.
The Niners would LIKE to have Crabtree, but do not NEED him. Crabtree would like to have the money the Niners do have, but apparently, according to Sanders, he doesn't need it. If Crabtree really doesn't need millions of dollars right now, and doesn't care about playing in the NFL right now, wasting a year of productivity and potential money earning, and he has no plans to budge, and, the Niners, who have everything to lose if they cave-in to his terrorist demands, then I can see a year long hold out.
In short, though Crabtree appears to have talent, his leverage is miniscule, because, as of yet, he is an unproven NFL talent, and the Niners do not NEED him for a run heavy offense. In the words of a very wise man, "you can't miss what you don't have." The Niners will get value for Crabtree whether or not he signs, while Crabtree risks the possibility of ending up somewhere else where he will make less money.
Good luck Crabs, you'll need it.
He will lose way more than he would gain holding out. He was drafted at the 10th slot so it is what it is. He will sign. Parker thinks our fronto office is weak and once he finds out it's not he will sign. The Niners won't miss him but Crabs will miss the money. You can't miss what you don't have applies to the Niners but not Crabs. If someone honestly thinks he will be better off sitting out then I have an everlasting gobstopper to sell you. I doubt Crabs is that stupid.
Originally posted by KRS-1:Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:Originally posted by RedWaltz24:Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jame-gumb:Originally posted by KRS-1:
From all speculation we have heard it does not sound like we are negotiating at all.
And we don't have to. SF offered Crabtree what he's worth. He was the No. 10 pick in the draft. He was offerd more than the 11th and less than the ninth. Crabtree has ZERO leverage. If I were SF, I'd laugh at him and his agent if they tried to negotiate from their position. Most logical people would.
Worth is based on what the market will offer.
Zero leverage is a bad argument. Crabtree doesn't have to play. That is his leverage.
As Mike Sando astutely pointed out, Crabtree was a "value" pick, not a "need", pick by the Niners. Given the run heavy offense the Niners intend to employ, they will not be lost this year if Crabtree sits out. If the Niners were trying to use the same kind of offense as an Arizona with the WR's they have now, then the Niners would be quite desperate for Crabtree and he would have some leverage.
The Niners would LIKE to have Crabtree, but do not NEED him. Crabtree would like to have the money the Niners do have, but apparently, according to Sanders, he doesn't need it. If Crabtree really doesn't need millions of dollars right now, and doesn't care about playing in the NFL right now, wasting a year of productivity and potential money earning, and he has no plans to budge, and, the Niners, who have everything to lose if they cave-in to his terrorist demands, then I can see a year long hold out.
In short, though Crabtree appears to have talent, his leverage is miniscule, because, as of yet, he is an unproven NFL talent, and the Niners do not NEED him for a run heavy offense. In the words of a very wise man, "you can't miss what you don't have." The Niners will get value for Crabtree whether or not he signs, while Crabtree risks the possibility of ending up somewhere else where he will make less money.
Good luck Crabs, you'll need it.
He will lose way more than he would gain holding out. He was drafted at the 10th slot so it is what it is. He will sign. Parker thinks our fronto office is weak and once he finds out it's not he will sign. The Niners won't miss him but Crabs will miss the money. You can't miss what you don't have applies to the Niners but not Crabs. If someone honestly thinks he will be better off sitting out then I have an everlasting gobstopper to sell you. I doubt Crabs is that stupid.
If Crabtree lights it up elsewhere the fans will miss him unless we can manage to get another playmaking WR. The fan will look back at the mistake we made by not attempting to pay him more money when we had the chance. Crabtree will come out the bigger winner IMHO in the situation if things turn out that way.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jreff22:Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jame-gumb:Originally posted by MadDog49er:
That is another poor argument. Crabtree does have leverage, as the Niners cannot force him to put on a uniform. The time I see Shaun Hill walking behind Crabtree with a gun pointed to his head is the time when the statement you made is accurate.
The lesson learned will not be the Niners are tough guys, and won't crack. It is that they lost their first rounder in a contract dispute.
You are choosing to only see things through one side of the lens. Try looking from another angle.
What leverage does he have? He loses a year of football and will likely get less money next year. SF loses a first round pick, or it could be downgraded to a second or third round pick. Big f**kin' deal.
Give me another angle from which to look at this situation. I've looked at this from Crabtree's angle. Not to get all biblical, but all I see is greed and pride.
edit: And so far, all you've done is tell me I'm making poor arguments without backing it up. You haven't made a decent argument yet (that I've seen).
Also, I really do want to know your opinion on what Crabtree could be traded for in March.
As for my arguments, I have written extensively in this thread and in another thread. In some posts, they were as long as a typical newspaper article. It would take another hour or so to retype the enter argument, but please feel free to dig back a couple hundred pages if you wish.
As for the value that Crabtree could be traded for, nobody knows at this point. It may be that a team is willing to offer a mid-late first rounder, or something outside the first round. Each team will need to assess their needs after the season.
Regarding his special situation that you have referred to multiple times, do you agree with Deion that Crab's should be paid in the $30mil range...or do you agree that, that is crazy?
I think if the Niners offered something very close to DHB money, that Crabtree would sign. However, since I am not there at the table, there is no way for me to know.
Is he worth $30 million? In total money, yes. That would come out to $6 million/season. That is not much more than Raji, who picked up $28. 5 million. To me, I think the solution is to offer a six year deal, worth $42 million, and $18 million in guaranteed money. The guaranteed money would match Raji's, and his overall contract would surpass DHB's in total money (although the per-year average would be less).
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:Originally posted by KRS-1:Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:Originally posted by RedWaltz24:Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jame-gumb:Originally posted by KRS-1:
From all speculation we have heard it does not sound like we are negotiating at all.
And we don't have to. SF offered Crabtree what he's worth. He was the No. 10 pick in the draft. He was offerd more than the 11th and less than the ninth. Crabtree has ZERO leverage. If I were SF, I'd laugh at him and his agent if they tried to negotiate from their position. Most logical people would.
Worth is based on what the market will offer.
Zero leverage is a bad argument. Crabtree doesn't have to play. That is his leverage.
As Mike Sando astutely pointed out, Crabtree was a "value" pick, not a "need", pick by the Niners. Given the run heavy offense the Niners intend to employ, they will not be lost this year if Crabtree sits out. If the Niners were trying to use the same kind of offense as an Arizona with the WR's they have now, then the Niners would be quite desperate for Crabtree and he would have some leverage.
The Niners would LIKE to have Crabtree, but do not NEED him. Crabtree would like to have the money the Niners do have, but apparently, according to Sanders, he doesn't need it. If Crabtree really doesn't need millions of dollars right now, and doesn't care about playing in the NFL right now, wasting a year of productivity and potential money earning, and he has no plans to budge, and, the Niners, who have everything to lose if they cave-in to his terrorist demands, then I can see a year long hold out.
In short, though Crabtree appears to have talent, his leverage is miniscule, because, as of yet, he is an unproven NFL talent, and the Niners do not NEED him for a run heavy offense. In the words of a very wise man, "you can't miss what you don't have." The Niners will get value for Crabtree whether or not he signs, while Crabtree risks the possibility of ending up somewhere else where he will make less money.
Good luck Crabs, you'll need it.
He will lose way more than he would gain holding out. He was drafted at the 10th slot so it is what it is. He will sign. Parker thinks our fronto office is weak and once he finds out it's not he will sign. The Niners won't miss him but Crabs will miss the money. You can't miss what you don't have applies to the Niners but not Crabs. If someone honestly thinks he will be better off sitting out then I have an everlasting gobstopper to sell you. I doubt Crabs is that stupid.
If Crabtree lights it up elsewhere the fans will miss him unless we can manage to get another playmaking WR. The fan will look back at the mistake we made by not attempting to pay him more money when we had the chance. Crabtree will come out the bigger winner IMHO in the situation if things turn out that way.
That is a if the Niners are will to take on him. Crabs will get the money but it's not written in stone that Crabs won't be a flop. That's the difference. His side of the bargain is written in paper. Preferably Benjamins. Crabs success in the league is unproven and the QB issue is bulls**t. If Bruce can get over 800 yards in his late 30's then Crabs will still get his numbers.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jreff22:Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jame-gumb:Originally posted by MadDog49er:
That is another poor argument. Crabtree does have leverage, as the Niners cannot force him to put on a uniform. The time I see Shaun Hill walking behind Crabtree with a gun pointed to his head is the time when the statement you made is accurate.
The lesson learned will not be the Niners are tough guys, and won't crack. It is that they lost their first rounder in a contract dispute.
You are choosing to only see things through one side of the lens. Try looking from another angle.
What leverage does he have? He loses a year of football and will likely get less money next year. SF loses a first round pick, or it could be downgraded to a second or third round pick. Big f**kin' deal.
Give me another angle from which to look at this situation. I've looked at this from Crabtree's angle. Not to get all biblical, but all I see is greed and pride.
edit: And so far, all you've done is tell me I'm making poor arguments without backing it up. You haven't made a decent argument yet (that I've seen).
Also, I really do want to know your opinion on what Crabtree could be traded for in March.
As for my arguments, I have written extensively in this thread and in another thread. In some posts, they were as long as a typical newspaper article. It would take another hour or so to retype the enter argument, but please feel free to dig back a couple hundred pages if you wish.
As for the value that Crabtree could be traded for, nobody knows at this point. It may be that a team is willing to offer a mid-late first rounder, or something outside the first round. Each team will need to assess their needs after the season.
Regarding his special situation that you have referred to multiple times, do you agree with Deion that Crab's should be paid in the $30mil range...or do you agree that, that is crazy?
I think if the Niners offered something very close to DHB money, that Crabtree would sign. However, since I am not there at the table, there is no way for me to know.
Is he worth $30 million? In total money, yes. That would come out to $6 million/season. That is not much more than Raji, who picked up $28. 5 million. To me, I think the solution is to offer a six year deal, worth $42 million, and $18 million in guaranteed money. The guaranteed money would match Raji's, and his overall contract would surpass DHB's in total money (although the per-year average would be less).
Originally posted by BigMar:
Uhmmm... I don't give a crap.
If this Craptree fellow is playing such hardball, it appears the clown honestly don't want to be a 49er unless the 9ers break the bank to convince him.
And if he has to be convinced by outrages bunddle of money to play for us, why in the heck do we want him?
Im seeing a player in Craptree who is putting up RED FLAGS that he is a "ME" player, not a "TEAM' Player.
If he actully comes aboard I have a feeling he is going to rub quite a few teammates, coaches and fans the wrong way.