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Crabtree Discussion Thread

Originally posted by mayo63:
Mad, I don't think he's going to sign.

To me, it's about a 50-50 proposition, and sliding every day. He's still in the area, which is a good sign. However, the gap, from all reports, seems to be very large to bridge.

This is pure Male drama.
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
When you clearly feel you are the best receiver, and 6 billion people agree with you, to receive more than $10 million less in compensation has to be a bitter pill to swallow, one that he is not willing to accept at this time, if ever.

If he won't sign for less than DHB, he'd better start working on his resume. What makes him think he'll earn MORE money after a year away from football and this contract dispute that's making him look like an idiot?

Once again, I think there is more than dollar signs out there for him. I believe it is a matter of pride. I could be wrong on this thought, but I believe Crabtree's cousin opened the window into his soul. He truly is disgusted that DHB can make that huge salary when he is half the talent.
  • jame-gumb
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Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by mayo63:
Mad, I don't think he's going to sign.

To me, it's about a 50-50 proposition, and sliding every day. He's still in the area, which is a good sign. However, the gap, from all reports, seems to be very large to bridge.

This is pure Male drama.

What do you think SF will be able to get for his rights in March, Maddog? I'm guessing a 2010 second-round pick, but that's purely speculative and I haven't heard anyone else's guess.
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by susweel:
You get pushed around by one 1st round rookie, you will get pushed around by all of them.

Thank you. Some people aren't grasping this.

Yah some people dont understand that this is bigger then just Crabdouche.


Its like having a bunch kids and you buy one of them a brand new Ferrari, what do you think the other going to expect.

[ Edited by susweel on Sep 10, 2009 at 10:00:00 ]
  • jame-gumb
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Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
When you clearly feel you are the best receiver, and 6 billion people agree with you, to receive more than $10 million less in compensation has to be a bitter pill to swallow, one that he is not willing to accept at this time, if ever.

If he won't sign for less than DHB, he'd better start working on his resume. What makes him think he'll earn MORE money after a year away from football and this contract dispute that's making him look like an idiot?

Once again, I think there is more than dollar signs out there for him. I believe it is a matter of pride. I could be wrong on this thought, but I believe Crabtree's cousin opened the window into his soul. He truly is disgusted that DHB can make that huge salary when he is half the talent.

And how's his pride going to be affected when he's offered less money next year?

I understand your point, but he's going to have to suck it up and earn less than he thinks he's worth or give up pro football. I believe it's nearly a fact that he'll be offered less money next year AND he's not earning a dime this year.
I was just listening to Colin Cowherd and he did speak about Crabtree. Below is a quick summary of what he said

Dilfer is hanging a carrot in front of niner fans. He met crabtree in the studio a couple of months ago. His entourage didn’t impress him. Said Crabtree is a little immature, didn’t get dressed up. But he is a likeable guy. He did not get to meet the “people around him”. He thought he was a pretty good kid though. Trent likes him. Trent has dealt with him for a couple of days. Trent does not lie so he must be a good kid.
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It was good to hear some word from Trent Dilfer on his throwing session with Crabtree. Take it for what it is worth, but here was his statement afterwards:

"We went through the route tree and probably threw 50 routes each day," Dilfer said. "I do not want to make definitive statements based on grass basketball, but it was impressive. He was very, very fit. I crushed him, basically, in terms of the tempo, the expectation. I treated him like a five-year vet going through the route tree and he did not blink.

"He looked great -- very healthy, very strong, very fit, very coachable, very polished route runner and he had a great attitude. He showed very strong hands, attacked the ball in the air, never let one ball get into his body in two days."

It looking more and more likely that the WR described above will never suit for the Niners, which is too bad. This team is going to need him in the future.

One has to wonder if the FO truly grasps this....I said it yesterday and I'll say it again TODAY, put some more guaranteed money on the damn table. We need to be more aggressive in our pursuit of this signing.

If we pay him somewhere near what he wants and he were to be a bust it would never be as a big a deal as if he is as good as advertised and if he ends up elsewhere regardless of if we trade him or not. We come out of this as the big losers here for failing to recognize elite talent and not doing more to get him signed.

It's my opinion that teams should respect the slotting system. Rookies are overpaid enough. If the Niners cave with Crabtree, this will likely happen again.

For the umpteenth time, Brady Quinn was paid more than his #22 slot and that never affected the Browns draft picks in 2008 and 2009.

It was said yesterday also, quarterbacks are treated differently. They are an exception. Right or wrong, that has been the trend. MM mentioned this shortly after the draft.

evil, you always seem like a guy that needs a nap. Such a grump.

However, the Jets were not beaten up for signing Darelle Revis to that massive, incentive-laden contract. No problems signing rookies since then.

I think the argument of "the Niners' management will look weak and fragile, and will be taken advantage in future draft" is one of the weaker arguments on the side of management. History does not show this to be true.
  • Blitz
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Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
This is going to be an epic fail for the front office.....I feel like the niners are the new Bengals.....pay him the damn money and let's ball....we've been waiting for a true #1 since Owens left.....these guys don't grow on trees.

And please stop comparing him to Owens...because it's not even close. He's a good kid getting bad advice...it has nothing to do with his attitude.

Epic fail in your post: Crabtree isn't a true #1. He's not even a two or three or worthy of the PS yet. In fact, he's at the bottom of the pile looking up. He's an unproven rookie who you could give the whole enchilada to and it still wouldn't make him anything different than a roll of the dice on the franchise's part. That's why he gets paid for his draft slot, and not a damn thing more.

I'm going to laugh my ass off at the people here who are hanging on Craptree's nutsack if the little s**t turns out to be the next JJ Stokes, because it's entirely, equally, possible he could as much as not turn out that way, no matter what the franchise does or doesn't do, no matter how much people want otherwise.

[ Edited by Blitz on Sep 10, 2009 at 10:09:42 ]
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by highway49:
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
I'm not a fan of any rookie holdouts.
Crabtree looked like a beat in college, yes but so did Ryan Leaf.
You have to earn your money, if he's concerned that he will not make enough of an impact on our team because of the run first attitude, then he has issues with himself. You have to go out and make an impact despite of being on a run first team.

Is Mr. Crabgra$$, implying that he is worried about how bad the team will make him look, by not featuring him enough ?... Imo he should be concerned with how he can help our team get better...

do you blame him ? Run 60% of the time then give him a contract with insentive he will never reach like making as many recptions as the Goat first 2 years. With our s**tty QB play it's never going to happen and on top of it you have and OC saying we will run 60% of the time, I am falling a sleep already !

Yes, I do blame him ! If our team wins, then i don't care if we run 100 % of the time.
He still gets $ 20 million guaranteed.
  • jame-gumb
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Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think the argument of "the Niners' management will look weak and fragile, and will be taken advantage in future draft" is one of the weaker arguments on the side of management. History does not show this to be true.

The best argument is that Crabtree has no leverage.

If SF refuses to give in and trades him or loses his rights, though, they will show that they will 100 percent not pay anyone over slot. This WILL discourage future draft picks from holding out. I don't think anyone thinks that rookies will start walking all over SF's management if they cave and sign Crabtree.
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Mel Kiper, Mike Mayok, et al thought he was a top-3 talent. NFL teams thought he was the No. 10 talent. If Crabtree wants top-3 money, he should talk to the analysts.

That might be oversimplified, but it's the point. Crabtree thinks he's better than DHB and wants to be paid like it. The bottom line is that worth is defined only as the price someone is willing to pay. The price SF is willing to pay is fair. If Crabtree doesn't like it, he can sit out a year and take less money next year AND earn $0 this year.

Have factual evidence NFL teams thought he was a top 10 and not top 3 talent ?

Detroit - Has Calvin Johnson, needed a face for the franchise. Drafted a top 5 player but not top 3.

St.Louis - Drafted a likely top 3 talent. Had they not had such a porous OL they may have drafted Curry, Crabtree or gone with a new face of the franchise in Sanchez as their QB situation looks dim.

KC- Already has a #1 WR in Dwayne Bowe. Switched to a new base scheme on defense and lack the personnel to run it so reached for a 5 technique. Probably would have preferred to trade down since they had no 2nd rounder but the cost was too much for other teams to do so when you factor in the money you have to pay the guy you take here.

Seattle - Took what looked like one of the 2 best players in the draft and JP's replacement. Also had just invested a lot in Housh and Burleson and Branch also have a lot invested in them.

Cleveland - Traded down with the NYJ (picks # 17 & 52 + DE Kenyon Coleman, DB Abram Elam, QB Brett Ratlif....17 & 52 = #9 according to the chart and Elam and Coleman are starters on the Browns roster).

Cincy - Are seemingly deep at WR (85, signed Coles, have Henry + and 2nd and 3rd round draft pick from 2008 draft pick). Had HUGE holes at OT, took a chance on Andre Smith, but I'd bet Crabtree would have graded out higher by their scouts.

Oakland - No 40 time registered = Al Davis won't draft you.

Jacksonville - Needed help at WR and at OT. Ended up spending first 2 picks on OT's to have bookend tandem to put in front of teams best player MJD.

GB - A GM who almost always selects BPA regardless of position took the DL here as they are also switching base schemes and questions and concerns with some of their current DL talent. Came away with a kid who fits both the 1 gap and 2 gap scheme and can play the nose or the 5 tech.

Seems most teams decided to fill needs as opposed to selecting the BPA. Outside of the Jets no team traded up into the top 10, as again it is costly especially when factoring in what one has to also pay the draft pick as well.
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Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
When you clearly feel you are the best receiver, and 6 billion people agree with you, to receive more than $10 million less in compensation has to be a bitter pill to swallow, one that he is not willing to accept at this time, if ever.

If he won't sign for less than DHB, he'd better start working on his resume. What makes him think he'll earn MORE money after a year away from football and this contract dispute that's making him look like an idiot?

Once again, I think there is more than dollar signs out there for him. I believe it is a matter of pride. I could be wrong on this thought, but I believe Crabtree's cousin opened the window into his soul. He truly is disgusted that DHB can make that huge salary when he is half the talent.

That very well could be the case. We all know the kid doesn't have his head screwed on straight, he's pretty much f**king himself over at this point. That kind of lets you know he is capable if cutting off his nose to spite his face over something as immature as letting the emotion of envy rule the day.

Come to think of it. Didn't he start crying at one point already? He could very well be a sensitive emotional wreck type of guy...unable to control his emotions?

[ Edited by Blitz on Sep 10, 2009 at 10:11:11 ]
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It was good to hear some word from Trent Dilfer on his throwing session with Crabtree. Take it for what it is worth, but here was his statement afterwards:

"We went through the route tree and probably threw 50 routes each day," Dilfer said. "I do not want to make definitive statements based on grass basketball, but it was impressive. He was very, very fit. I crushed him, basically, in terms of the tempo, the expectation. I treated him like a five-year vet going through the route tree and he did not blink.

"He looked great -- very healthy, very strong, very fit, very coachable, very polished route runner and he had a great attitude. He showed very strong hands, attacked the ball in the air, never let one ball get into his body in two days."

It looking more and more likely that the WR described above will never suit for the Niners, which is too bad. This team is going to need him in the future.

One has to wonder if the FO truly grasps this....I said it yesterday and I'll say it again TODAY, put some more guaranteed money on the damn table. We need to be more aggressive in our pursuit of this signing.

If we pay him somewhere near what he wants and he were to be a bust it would never be as a big a deal as if he is as good as advertised and if he ends up elsewhere regardless of if we trade him or not. We come out of this as the big losers here for failing to recognize elite talent and not doing more to get him signed.

It's my opinion that teams should respect the slotting system. Rookies are overpaid enough. If the Niners cave with Crabtree, this will likely happen again.

For the umpteenth time, Brady Quinn was paid more than his #22 slot and that never affected the Browns draft picks in 2008 and 2009.

It was said yesterday also, quarterbacks are treated differently. They are an exception. Right or wrong, that has been the trend. MM mentioned this shortly after the draft.

evil, you always seem like a guy that needs a nap. Such a grump.

And top 3 talents (arguably even the best player) in the draft normally don't fall to number 10.

If the guy knows the route tree and seemingly is running precise routes he may be able to contribute this year regardless of the fact that he missed TC.

Risk vs Reward. If we cave or attempt to try and meet in the middle the reward will be much greater than the risk involved if there truly is a risk involved.

Got to love how nearly everyone wants to hate on the posters who support Crabtree getting paid so he can finally suit up and be a part of this team. Good job guys

Not saying that, simply that QBs aren't the best for comparison. Randy Moss fell pretty far, but I don't know off-hand what kind of contract he signed.
I don't think it is really so far-fetched for a top talent, who was injured and couldn't workout, to fall a little bit. Nobody considered a Top 3 talent is guaranteed to be taken in the top 3.

Moss fell due to his off the field issues, not comparable.


Actually I think Crabtree fell due to off field issues as well. Like the fact that some teams thought he might be a diva

Only 1 team was known to say something of the sort. There is no actual evidence to support any other team believing the same thing.
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It was good to hear some word from Trent Dilfer on his throwing session with Crabtree. Take it for what it is worth, but here was his statement afterwards:

"We went through the route tree and probably threw 50 routes each day," Dilfer said. "I do not want to make definitive statements based on grass basketball, but it was impressive. He was very, very fit. I crushed him, basically, in terms of the tempo, the expectation. I treated him like a five-year vet going through the route tree and he did not blink.

"He looked great -- very healthy, very strong, very fit, very coachable, very polished route runner and he had a great attitude. He showed very strong hands, attacked the ball in the air, never let one ball get into his body in two days."

It looking more and more likely that the WR described above will never suit for the Niners, which is too bad. This team is going to need him in the future.

One has to wonder if the FO truly grasps this....I said it yesterday and I'll say it again TODAY, put some more guaranteed money on the damn table. We need to be more aggressive in our pursuit of this signing.

If we pay him somewhere near what he wants and he were to be a bust it would never be as a big a deal as if he is as good as advertised and if he ends up elsewhere regardless of if we trade him or not. We come out of this as the big losers here for failing to recognize elite talent and not doing more to get him signed.

It's my opinion that teams should respect the slotting system. Rookies are overpaid enough. If the Niners cave with Crabtree, this will likely happen again.

For the umpteenth time, Brady Quinn was paid more than his #22 slot and that never affected the Browns draft picks in 2008 and 2009.

It was said yesterday also, quarterbacks are treated differently. They are an exception. Right or wrong, that has been the trend. MM mentioned this shortly after the draft.

evil, you always seem like a guy that needs a nap. Such a grump.

And top 3 talents (arguably even the best player) in the draft normally don't fall to number 10.

If the guy knows the route tree and seemingly is running precise routes he may be able to contribute this year regardless of the fact that he missed TC.

Risk vs Reward. If we cave or attempt to try and meet in the middle the reward will be much greater than the risk involved if there truly is a risk involved.

Got to love how nearly everyone wants to hate on the posters who support Crabtree getting paid so he can finally suit up and be a part of this team. Good job guys

Not saying that, simply that QBs aren't the best for comparison. Randy Moss fell pretty far, but I don't know off-hand what kind of contract he signed.
I don't think it is really so far-fetched for a top talent, who was injured and couldn't workout, to fall a little bit. Nobody considered a Top 3 talent is guaranteed to be taken in the top 3.

Moss fell due to his off the field issues, not comparable.

Crabtree had some personality issues coming out. Not to the extremity of Moss's though. They play the same position, top talents in their respective draft classes, both had some red flags (Moss's being more extreme, but he did fall further).

Seems more comparable than a QB (a fair amount didn't consider your ND QB a top 3 talent, either).

No but they all agreed he was a top 10 talent which is what I have already stated. Miami was ripped to shreds in the media for not picking him and Ted Ginn has yet to pay any real dividends meanwhile Quinn will be starting for Cleveland this year.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by jame-gumb:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
It was good to hear some word from Trent Dilfer on his throwing session with Crabtree. Take it for what it is worth, but here was his statement afterwards:

"We went through the route tree and probably threw 50 routes each day," Dilfer said. "I do not want to make definitive statements based on grass basketball, but it was impressive. He was very, very fit. I crushed him, basically, in terms of the tempo, the expectation. I treated him like a five-year vet going through the route tree and he did not blink.

"He looked great -- very healthy, very strong, very fit, very coachable, very polished route runner and he had a great attitude. He showed very strong hands, attacked the ball in the air, never let one ball get into his body in two days."

It looking more and more likely that the WR described above will never suit for the Niners, which is too bad. This team is going to need him in the future.

One has to wonder if the FO truly grasps this....I said it yesterday and I'll say it again TODAY, put some more guaranteed money on the damn table. We need to be more aggressive in our pursuit of this signing.

If we pay him somewhere near what he wants and he were to be a bust it would never be as a big a deal as if he is as good as advertised and if he ends up elsewhere regardless of if we trade him or not. We come out of this as the big losers here for failing to recognize elite talent and not doing more to get him signed.

It's my opinion that teams should respect the slotting system. Rookies are overpaid enough. If the Niners cave with Crabtree, this will likely happen again.

For the umpteenth time, Brady Quinn was paid more than his #22 slot and that never affected the Browns draft picks in 2008 and 2009.

It was said yesterday also, quarterbacks are treated differently. They are an exception. Right or wrong, that has been the trend. MM mentioned this shortly after the draft.

evil, you always seem like a guy that needs a nap. Such a grump.

However, the Jets were not beaten up for signing Darelle Revis to that massive, incentive-laden contract. No problems signing rookies since then.

I think the argument of "the Niners' management will look weak and fragile, and will be taken advantage in future draft" is one of the weaker arguments on the side of management. History does not show this to be true.

Not a bad point. I think part of the problem with the 49ers proposed contract is the incentives though, isn't it? Crabtree wants more guaranteed. If the 49ers offered a deal that could balloon up the woth with ridiculous incentives, I doubt Crabtree would like it any better.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Personally, I hope he signs, even if it means upping the offer. I understand this is a business first, play later thing. The only thing that bothers me is he doesn't seem that excited to be a 49er (I know, the 49ers have sucked for quite a while). I still would think a rookie would be a little more excited to be a pro. I dunno, maybe he simply just isn't an expressive guy. Just hard for me to imagine someone seeming so humdrum about it all.