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Jerry Sullivan (WR Coach)

  • KRS-1
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 28,556
Originally posted by jays9ers:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Dude sucks, I've said it before and I will repeat it Dude sucks! Couldn't get it done in Phoenix with Bolden and Fitzgerald, and has failed to develop talent here!

This dude does not suck, he is a great WR's coach. The problem lies with the talent or lack thereof he has been given to work with.

Marcus Maxwell
Rasheed Marshall
Brandon Williams
Jason Hill
Josh Morgan

Look at the list...only 2 are still with us the other 3 are either out of the league or desperately trying to make a roster. But Sully is the problem right ?

Should we bring up the list of WR's we brought in via FA ? That list is quite pathetic looking.

Good thing we have had good QB play as well to help get the ball to the WR's...oh wait we haven't.

In Arizona he spent 1 year with Anquan Boldin (rookie season) and Sully was the OC not WR's coach however Boldin did finish with 101 catches for 1300+ yards. Boldin himself credits both Sully for his rookie year, and Sully was very adamant that the Cards draft Boldin despite his 4.7 40 time as he saw something special there.

FTR He never even worked with Fitz in AZ yet you call him a failure for that. Good job knowing what your talking about.

The following have all been PB's under Sully's tutelage : Anthony Miller, Tony Martin, Herman Moore, Germaine Crowell, David Boston and Q.

It's obvious you know nothing about Sully or his credentials and are looking at the results without looking at the variables involved to get those results.

Soo what you're saying is he needs top notch talent to develop a WR?? If you're in the NFL you have talent that many people do not have, and hopefully with the proper conditions and coaching you should be able to succeed. Jason Hill and Josh Morgan have the physical talents to excell, they just arn't. Partially of this is due to Sullivan's greeeat coaching....

No. But expecting him to turn water into wine is asking for a lot. Most Mid to late round WR's don't turn into anything better than a # 3 or 4 wideout at best.

New England and Pittsburgh are both teams that have great success in drafting and developing players and have not developed a single WR into anything better than a 3 or 4 in the same time frame Sully has been with us outside of Santonio Holmes.

It takes more than physical talent alone to excel. Go look around the league at WR's drafted since 2005 and see how many have had 1000 yard seasons or close to it....the answer is three : Brandon Marshall, Steve Breaston & Marques Colston. Not one other WR taken from the 3rd round on has even sniffed 1000 yards. That's 3 out of close to 100 WR's. The rest are a bunch of 3's and 4's.

Since 2005 we took 1 WR on the first day....Michael Crabtree. Since 2005 all these WR's were first day picks :

Braylon Edwards
Roddy White
Reggie Brown (has since fallen off but has sniffed 1000 yards)
Vincent Jackson
Greg Jennings
Santonio Holmes
Calvin Johnson
Anthony Gonzalez
Dwayne Bowe
Desean Jackson
Eddie Royal
Donnie Avery

Maybe instead of blaming Sully you should focus your blame on the 49ers scouts and GM for not investing high picks on a skill position that has been so thin for us until this year.
  • KRS-1
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And Josh Morgan flashed last year and this year has done s**t.....he is complaining his legs are sore from the rigors of training camp. A professional football player under the age of 25 who is perfectly healthy is complaining about TC being a bit much.....yeah that sounds like the WR's coach who is to blame. Gimme a break.
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by jays9ers:
Why hasn't this guy taken any heat?? I thought this guy was a WR guru?? We haven't had a wideout sniff a thousand yards since he's come aboard. Player development is a huge problem for the 9ers. WR's development has been horrible! What's the deal?

how can any WR get 1000 yards with the crap we have from OC to QB to OL ! f**k man think !

right on the nail....no QB means no yards....no oline means QB can't throw jack.... it's a vicious cycle
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Dude sucks, I've said it before and I will repeat it Dude sucks! Couldn't get it done in Phoenix with Bolden and Fitzgerald, and has failed to develop talent here!

This dude does not suck, he is a great WR's coach. The problem lies with the talent or lack thereof he has been given to work with.

Marcus Maxwell
Rasheed Marshall
Brandon Williams
Jason Hill
Josh Morgan

Look at the list...only 2 are still with us the other 3 are either out of the league or desperately trying to make a roster. But Sully is the problem right ?

Should we bring up the list of WR's we brought in via FA ? That list is quite pathetic looking.

Good thing we have had good QB play as well to help get the ball to the WR's...oh wait we haven't.

In Arizona he spent 1 year with Anquan Boldin (rookie season) and Sully was the OC not WR's coach however Boldin did finish with 101 catches for 1300+ yards. Boldin himself credits both Sully for his rookie year, and Sully was very adamant that the Cards draft Boldin despite his 4.7 40 time as he saw something special there.

FTR He never even worked with Fitz in AZ yet you call him a failure for that. Good job knowing what your talking about.

The following have all been PB's under Sully's tutelage : Anthony Miller, Tony Martin, Herman Moore, Germaine Crowell, David Boston and Q.

It's obvious you know nothing about Sully or his credentials and are looking at the results without looking at the variables involved to get those results.

You ignore our free agent signings, but what ever you are soooo right it is just a coincidence that our passing game disappeared when he showed up and the Cardinals passing game appeared as soon as he left Phoenix!
  • KRS-1
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Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Dude sucks, I've said it before and I will repeat it Dude sucks! Couldn't get it done in Phoenix with Bolden and Fitzgerald, and has failed to develop talent here!

This dude does not suck, he is a great WR's coach. The problem lies with the talent or lack thereof he has been given to work with.

Marcus Maxwell
Rasheed Marshall
Brandon Williams
Jason Hill
Josh Morgan

Look at the list...only 2 are still with us the other 3 are either out of the league or desperately trying to make a roster. But Sully is the problem right ?

Should we bring up the list of WR's we brought in via FA ? That list is quite pathetic looking.

Good thing we have had good QB play as well to help get the ball to the WR's...oh wait we haven't.

In Arizona he spent 1 year with Anquan Boldin (rookie season) and Sully was the OC not WR's coach however Boldin did finish with 101 catches for 1300+ yards. Boldin himself credits both Sully for his rookie year, and Sully was very adamant that the Cards draft Boldin despite his 4.7 40 time as he saw something special there.

FTR He never even worked with Fitz in AZ yet you call him a failure for that. Good job knowing what your talking about.

The following have all been PB's under Sully's tutelage : Anthony Miller, Tony Martin, Herman Moore, Germaine Crowell, David Boston and Q.

It's obvious you know nothing about Sully or his credentials and are looking at the results without looking at the variables involved to get those results.

You ignore our free agent signings, but what ever you are soooo right it is just a coincidence that our passing game disappeared when he showed up and the Cardinals passing game appeared as soon as he left Phoenix!

No I did not ignore them....If you'd like we can look at the list of FA WR's we brought in however that list is far from impressive. Want to talk about a past his prime Curtis Conway or Johnnie Morton....or how about Jason McAddley ? The only name WR's we brought in were Darrell Jackson and seemingly he isn't doing s**t now though he had nearly 50 catches with us and Antonio Bryant who performed pretty well when he was here.

[ Edited by KRS-1 on Sep 1, 2009 at 11:05:50 ]
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Dude sucks, I've said it before and I will repeat it Dude sucks! Couldn't get it done in Phoenix with Bolden and Fitzgerald, and has failed to develop talent here!

This dude does not suck, he is a great WR's coach. The problem lies with the talent or lack thereof he has been given to work with.

Marcus Maxwell
Rasheed Marshall
Brandon Williams
Jason Hill
Josh Morgan

Look at the list...only 2 are still with us the other 3 are either out of the league or desperately trying to make a roster. But Sully is the problem right ?

Should we bring up the list of WR's we brought in via FA ? That list is quite pathetic looking.

Good thing we have had good QB play as well to help get the ball to the WR's...oh wait we haven't.

In Arizona he spent 1 year with Anquan Boldin (rookie season) and Sully was the OC not WR's coach however Boldin did finish with 101 catches for 1300+ yards. Boldin himself credits both Sully for his rookie year, and Sully was very adamant that the Cards draft Boldin despite his 4.7 40 time as he saw something special there.

FTR He never even worked with Fitz in AZ yet you call him a failure for that. Good job knowing what your talking about.

The following have all been PB's under Sully's tutelage : Anthony Miller, Tony Martin, Herman Moore, Germaine Crowell, David Boston and Q.

It's obvious you know nothing about Sully or his credentials and are looking at the results without looking at the variables involved to get those results.

You ignore our free agent signings, but what ever you are soooo right it is just a coincidence that our passing game disappeared when he showed up and the Cardinals passing game appeared as soon as he left Phoenix!

No I did not ignore them....If you'd like we can look at the list of FA WR's we brought in however that list is far from impressive. Want to talk about a past his prime Curtis Conway or Johnnie Morton....or how about Jason McAddley ? The only name WR's we brought in were Darrell Jackson and seemingly he isn't doing s**t now though he had nearly 50 catches with us and Antonio Bryant who performed pretty well when he was here.

You're right he was amazing with the Cards!
Just about every team and their mommas have had very solid to good contribution out of rookie or second year receivers year in and year out. We, can barely get ours on the field.

I still think he overkills it with young receivers rather than letting them play football.
  • JDog
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by Joecool:
Just about every team and their mommas have had very solid to good contribution out of rookie or second year receivers year in and year out. We, can barely get ours on the field.

I still think he overkills it with young receivers rather than letting them play football.

Agreed....Bring in the GOAT ... Jerry Rice.
He worked with the kids from Eagles last year and that kid actually produced in year 1!
To go on further, all of this Alex Smith bad mechanics thing is crap. It was said that Hill has the worst mechanics and he's OK. The ultimate example is Big Ben.

"I want winners!" These coaches need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and go off with what makes football players good, putting them into position to enhance their strengths and instincts.

[ Edited by Joecool on Sep 11, 2009 at 14:45:19 ]
Going further & further down the line on position coaches to find blame for the 49ers losing seems overly petty. The buck stops with the head coach. He hires the coaching staff.
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Going further & further down the line on position coaches to find blame for the 49ers losing seems overly petty. The buck stops with the head coach. He hires the coaching staff.

He brought in Rathman, our OC and QB coach. I think he's going to slowly replace some guys. Sullivan is living on his past reputation of developing some already freakishly talented receivers and that's it.

Assistants I would keep:
TE coach
RB coach
DB coach
DC coach
DL coach

Still in question:
Pass Rush coach
OL coach
QB coach
OC
LB coach

Need to be fired:
WR coach

[ Edited by Joecool on Sep 11, 2009 at 14:54:30 ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Going further & further down the line on position coaches to find blame for the 49ers losing seems overly petty. The buck stops with the head coach. He hires the coaching staff.

He brought in Rathman, our OC and QB coach. I think he's going to slowly replace some guys. Sullivan is living on his past reputation of developing some already freakishly talented receivers and that's it.

Assistants I would keep:
TE coach
RB coach
DB coach
DC coach
DL coach

Still in question:
Pass Rush coach
OL coach
QB coach
OC
WR coach
LB coach

I am not going to argue for or against a position coach, I just don't know. But I do wonder if fans who are pissed about WR development are really technical enough, and watch practices to know if issues are due to either bad position coach, or player talent not being as good as they would like to see, despite players getting good coaching.

I would think only an insider would have the knowledge to know what the real deal is.
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Going further & further down the line on position coaches to find blame for the 49ers losing seems overly petty. The buck stops with the head coach. He hires the coaching staff.

He brought in Rathman, our OC and QB coach. I think he's going to slowly replace some guys. Sullivan is living on his past reputation of developing some already freakishly talented receivers and that's it.

Assistants I would keep:
TE coach
RB coach
DB coach
DC coach
DL coach

Still in question:
Pass Rush coach
OL coach
QB coach
OC
WR coach
LB coach

I am not going to argue for or against a position coach, I just don't know. But I do wonder if fans who are pissed about WR development are really technical enough, and watch practices to know if issues are due to either bad position coach, or player talent not being as good as they would like to see, despite players getting good coaching.

I would think only an insider would have the knowledge to know what the real deal is.

I don't know. To Martz, Hill had no fundamentals what-so-ever. Does that mean he can't play QB well? I think it's different with young players. Some personalities in coaching refuse to give a guy a chance because of that coach's ego in the player doing what he says to the tee or esle no playing time or a negative report to the HC.

So many teams actually "try" to put these guys in and use maybe one skill they have. We rarely even try that, especially with our receivers unless they show an abundance of skill like Morgan. Look at Jason Hill. He has come through when it counts but still seems to be in a doghouse.

So far, the one position that we cannot seem to develop at is WR. We have OL and other positions developing and contributing except for receiver.

Confidence, more than anything else, does wonders for a player. So, put them in for a play, give them the ball and let them build if they have success. Much better than them sitting and getting yelled at all the time because one foot is half a yard less than where it should be.

[ Edited by Joecool on Sep 11, 2009 at 15:07:33 ]
  • KRS-1
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  • Posts: 28,556
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Going further & further down the line on position coaches to find blame for the 49ers losing seems overly petty. The buck stops with the head coach. He hires the coaching staff.

He brought in Rathman, our OC and QB coach. I think he's going to slowly replace some guys. Sullivan is living on his past reputation of developing some already freakishly talented receivers and that's it.

Assistants I would keep:
TE coach
RB coach
DB coach
DC coach
DL coach

Still in question:
Pass Rush coach
OL coach
QB coach
OC
LB coach

Need to be fired:
WR coach

Why is Scott not being questioned on the fact that the WR position is not producing? Read my above posts.....However some of that falls back to Nolan as well when he was GM. But Scott had Limas Sweed rated higher than Eddie Royal, Desean Jackson and Donnie Avery (based off of the fact that Martz was asked who he wanted the OL in Rachal or the WR in Sweed). Martz obviously made the right call.

Brandon Freaking Lloyd had a career year under Sully. The only other talent they have brought in (outside of MC) is Antonio Bryant who was a head case. Everyone else was either picked from the 3rd round on which if you note my above post in like looking for a needle in a haystack or WR's who are past their prime (Bruce although he did have a solid year for his age, Conway, Morton, DJack who was on his downside obviously). Oh and we brought in Ashley Lelie who spent most of his time nursing his hammy or quad) and has failed to catch on or produce elsewhere.

If you want good production at WR you have to bring in some talent and not rely on a bunch of past there primes, journeymen and late round picks.

We can also put some blame on the lack of WR production on the OL and it's inability to keep the QB upright and the lack of a decent option at QB.

Sully however does not belong at the top of the list of position coaches to be fired.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Going further & further down the line on position coaches to find blame for the 49ers losing seems overly petty. The buck stops with the head coach. He hires the coaching staff.

He brought in Rathman, our OC and QB coach. I think he's going to slowly replace some guys. Sullivan is living on his past reputation of developing some already freakishly talented receivers and that's it.

Assistants I would keep:
TE coach
RB coach
DB coach
DC coach
DL coach

Still in question:
Pass Rush coach
OL coach
QB coach
OC
LB coach

Need to be fired:
WR coach

Why is Scott not being questioned on the fact that the WR position is not producing? Read my above posts.....However some of that falls back to Nolan as well when he was GM. But Scott had Limas Sweed rated higher than Eddie Royal, Desean Jackson and Donnie Avery (based off of the fact that Martz was asked who he wanted the OL in Rachal or the WR in Sweed). Martz obviously made the right call.

Brandon Freaking Lloyd had a career year under Sully. The only other talent they have brought in (outside of MC) is Antonio Bryant who was a head case. Everyone else was either picked from the 3rd round on which if you note my above post in like looking for a needle in a haystack or WR's who are past their prime (Bruce although he did have a solid year for his age, Conway, Morton, DJack who was on his downside obviously). Oh and we brought in Ashley Lelie who spent most of his time nursing his hammy or quad) and has failed to catch on or produce elsewhere.

If you want good production at WR you have to bring in some talent and not rely on a bunch of past there primes, journeymen and late round picks.

We can also put some blame on the lack of WR production on the OL and it's inability to keep the QB upright and the lack of a decent option at QB.

Sully however does not belong at the top of the list of position coaches to be fired.

That was Lloyd's 3rd year where just about almost any 3rd year receiver could have produced 700 yards. I'm talking about rookie players. Even the Eagles who cut Basket or whatever known draft pick got some decent production out of him in regular season his rookie year. We refuse to do even that.

I'm not expecting a worldbeater, just SOME decent production out of a rookie in spots.

I think Sully is getting in the way of these guys getting a chance to at least try to see if they can make a 15 yard catch per game.

[ Edited by Joecool on Sep 11, 2009 at 15:10:26 ]