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When does Scotty M get the boot?

It's still all about the QB. Just look at a team like the Vikings who were in 3rd place in the division last year or look at NE just before Brady stepped in or Farve improving the Jets to 9 wins after a 4 win season.

QB makes EVERYONE look better.
If this year goes poorly, I wouldn't be averse to wiping out the entire staff, everybody.

Bring in Shanahan.

You say give Singletary more time? I say that if things aren't any better, why continue on with the Nolan tree?
Originally posted by FL9er:
You're entitled to your viewpoint, but who replaces him? I want names. You're probably looking at a 1st time GM, and which worthwhile candidate is going to come here when the guy they're replacing is fired basically 2 years after being named GM? There's also already a thread on this topic.

Umm...let's see...I'm going to go (assuming we'll pay market rate and give him total control): 1) Kevin Colbert 2) Floyd Reese 3) Scott Studwell or Ron Hughes or Doug Whaley 4) Marty Schottenheimer.
Originally posted by Robert:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I've called for Scot to be dumped for some time now. All that cap space, and high draft choices, and this team still is devoid of talent. Some of the blame surely falls on Nolan, but Scot has been part of the decision-making team all along.

I have to agree. I want to like the guy. You know, Ron Wolf disciple and all, but the numbers just don't pan out. We still have sub-par NFL talent 5 years into his regime.

So much money spent, and so little difference. I mean, I like Clements and really like J. Smith, but are these guys difference makers for the team. The key to a stud 3-4 defense is the NT and the Will backer, and we still have below average players at these positions for 3-4 teams in the league.
Originally posted by Joecool:
It's still all about the QB. Just look at a team like the Vikings who were in 3rd place in the division last year or look at NE just before Brady stepped in or Farve improving the Jets to 9 wins after a 4 win season.

QB makes EVERYONE look better.

You know the Vikings won their division though? With Gus Frerotte doing most of the work
Originally posted by boomer49er:
If this year goes poorly, I wouldn't be averse to wiping out the entire staff, everybody.

Bring in Shanahan.

You say give Singletary more time? I say that if things aren't any better, why continue on with the Nolan tree?

Wow really??? I cant believe all the people on here ready to fire Singletary before the first regular season game of his first year of him being HC. You would think Josh McDaniels was our HC around here. Only good coaches get a coaching tree, so Noaln does not
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Robert:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I've called for Scot to be dumped for some time now. All that cap space, and high draft choices, and this team still is devoid of talent. Some of the blame surely falls on Nolan, but Scot has been part of the decision-making team all along.

I have to agree. I want to like the guy. You know, Ron Wolf disciple and all, but the numbers just don't pan out. We still have sub-par NFL talent 5 years into his regime.

So much money spent, and so little difference. I mean, I like Clements and really like J. Smith, but are these guys difference makers for the team. The key to a stud 3-4 defense is the NT and the Will backer, and we still have below average players at these positions for 3-4 teams in the league.

Agreed. After a half a decade, a 3-4 team should have an established NT and Will. Also, I would expect at least one NFL quality CB (from the draft). A top 20 qb, rb and WR should also not be too much to ask. Of all of these we only have the rb after 5 years. It's just not a sufficient track record of success.
Originally posted by syoung8:
Originally posted by GONINERS09:
Holmgren Shannahan Vick in '10!!!!!!

all for holmgren and shannahan!!! screw vick we got 2 number ones next year dont let scott draft ....snatch up mccoy,bradford or teebow and a passrusher with a grudge!!!!

i'd take Vick over all of our Qb's!
  • FL9er
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,947
Originally posted by Robert:
Originally posted by FL9er:
You're entitled to your viewpoint, but who replaces him? I want names. You're probably looking at a 1st time GM, and which worthwhile candidate is going to come here when the guy they're replacing is fired basically 2 years after being named GM? There's also already a thread on this topic.

Umm...let's see...I'm going to go (assuming we'll pay market rate and give him total control): 1) Kevin Colbert 2) Floyd Reese 3) Scott Studwell or Ron Hughes or Doug Whaley 4) Marty Schottenheimer.

Hughes is more likely to leave Pittsburgh if offered a 1st time GM role than Colbert. But I didn't think Pioli would leave Belichick.....Floyd Reese is overrated, why would Studwell leave a good situation in Minnesota, and Schottenheimer, really?

Like I said, you are looking at a 1st time GM, who may or may not be an improvement over McCloughan, and no worthwhile candidate is going to take this job when the previous guy is getting the hook so soon (I don't care that McCloughan has been with the 49ers for 5 years, he's only had total control of the roster-as GM-for 2).
He's overrated IMO on this site. His picks haven't turned out. Having said that Nolan was in charge for a long time also. It's tough to judge him completely. I think he is not real good but people use Nolan as an excuse to cover for him. What has he found? Gore and Willis? 2 guys that are great players in years and years of picking. Is that good?


Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He's overrated IMO on this site. His picks haven't turned out. Having said that Nolan was in charge for a long time also. It's tough to judge him completely. I think he is not real good but people use Nolan as an excuse to cover for him. What has he found? Gore and Willis? 2 guys that are great players in years and years of picking. Is that good?



You make some fair points, especially what I bolded. That's why I think we give him another year or two. The last couple of drafts have had some decent looking players taken in late rounds, and I think we should see how some of those guys develop before pulling the trigger on Scott.
Hell, let's turn over the front office and coaching staff year after year until by sheer volume we get a winner...
Given his reputation around the league, and the accomplished coaches that have spoken positively of him, I can't imagine that there is not a fair amount of doubt about how much this team's failure can be attributed to him. Here are some reasons:

He was only responsible for the last 2 drafts:
I know he was Nolan's #2, but that doesn't make him the #1. We don't know what went on during the draft. Maybe he said Vernon has butter fingers and preferred Ngata, but Nolan made the call. Not saying it happened, and there is not reason to think so, but the bottom line is that without being the trigger man it's hard to tell. Judging Scotty on Nolan's drafts is not too different from judging Sing on Nolan's game plans (being the assistant HC).

The last 2 drafts show a good deal of promise:
The jury is very much out on Balmer. People complain about the lack of D-line quality, and with his first pick as the trigger man Scotty attempts to address the issue. Best pick in the draft? Time will tell. His next pick was not popular, but in my opinion was a good one. Reggie Smith showed promise this pre-season. Josh Morgan in the 6th? That was nice. His 7th round selection--Grant--is also a pretty good player--too bad Nolan cut him. I also liked the signing of Justin Smith as his first FA decision. This year is of course too early to judge, but both added RBs look good, Crabtree--if and when he signs--should be..well, Crabtree, and Nate Davis could turn out to be a)a waste of a 5th round pick OR b) the greatest pick this team has made in the last 2 decades or c) anything in between. Bottom line is that it's a very intriguing pick, and will be hard to judge until a bit later. Outside of maybe Wallace (who may turn out to be a starting LG next year) I have not seen a single selection by Scotty --as the #1-- that I've written off as a wasted pick.

He's been credited with pushing for some good players:
From what I've read it was Scotty who pushed for Willis, Gore and Alex Smith. Yes I realize Smith is crap, but we'll get to that. Willis and Gore are players we can build our team around.

Is Alex Smith a bad player, or did the coaching staff ruin him...and others:
Did Nolan fail to develop players? Scotty can't hide behind this excuse forever, but since Nolan was the guy to have final say on drafting, and the only hand in developing a number of our players, its a bit unfair to write them off on Scotty. Alex Smith was Scotty's chosen pick, but how do you think Rogers--who we now know has the talent to warrant a 1st overall pick--would have fared in Smith's shoes? I don't know...

He showed incredible integrity during this draft:
Scotty knew his job was on the line--and unlike Nolan who pulled out all the stops and hired Martz as a desperation move--he never lost control. Rather than getting the quick fix the salvage as much of this season as possible, Scotty thought long term for the good of the team and acquired an additional 1st round pick for next year. It's too early to say if it's a good or bad move, but to me it showed integrity. He did what he felt was best for the team, rather than for his own job security.

I say we should give him the benefit, at least wait and see long enough for his first draft class to develop, and see if a different coach can do anymore with the talent he brought in. If not, then its on him. After all, he did have a say in hiring Sing. But I think the 2010 season should be the gauge for him. I know him and Sing have been here for years, but lets not overlook that there was another guy who was doing both of their jobs for most of that time. A #2 is a #2, and some very good #2's have been stuck behind some very bad #1's. I'm just not convinced that this wasn't the case.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Given his reputation around the league, and the accomplished coaches that have spoken positively of him, I can't imagine that there is not a fair amount of doubt about how much this team's failure can be attributed to him. Here are some reasons:

He was only responsible for the last 2 drafts:
I know he was Nolan's #2, but that doesn't make him the #1. We don't know what went on during the draft. Maybe he said Vernon has butter fingers and preferred Ngata, but Nolan made the call. Not saying it happened, and there is not reason to think so, but the bottom line is that without being the trigger man it's hard to tell. Judging Scotty on Nolan's drafts is not too different from judging Sing on Nolan's game plans (being the assistant HC).

The last 2 drafts show a good deal of promise:
The jury is very much out on Balmer. People complain about the lack of D-line quality, and with his first pick as the trigger man Scotty attempts to address the issue. Best pick in the draft? Time will tell. His next pick was not popular, but in my opinion was a good one. Reggie Smith showed promise this pre-season. Josh Morgan in the 6th? That was nice. His 7th round selection--Grant--is also a pretty good player--too bad Nolan cut him. I also liked the signing of Justin Smith as his first FA decision. This year is of course too early to judge, but both added RBs look good, Crabtree--if and when he signs--should be..well, Crabtree, and Nate Davis could turn out to be a)a waste of a 5th round pick OR b) the greatest pick this team has made in the last 2 decades or c) anything in between. Bottom line is that it's a very intriguing pick, and will be hard to judge until a bit later. Outside of maybe Wallace (who may turn out to be a starting LG next year) I have not seen a single selection by Scotty --as the #1-- that I've written off as a wasted pick.

He's been credited with pushing for some good players:
From what I've read it was Scotty who pushed for Willis, Gore and Alex Smith. Yes I realize Smith is crap, but we'll get to that. Willis and Gore are players we can build our team around.

Is Alex Smith a bad player, or did the coaching staff ruin him...and others:
Did Nolan fail to develop players? Scotty can't hide behind this excuse forever, but since Nolan was the guy to have final say on drafting, and the only hand in developing a number of our players, its a bit unfair to write them off on Scotty. Alex Smith was Scotty's chosen pick, but how do you think Rogers--who we now know has the talent to warrant a 1st overall pick--would have fared in Smith's shoes? I don't know...

He showed incredible integrity during this draft:
Scotty knew his job was on the line--and unlike Nolan who pulled out all the stops and hired Martz as a desperation move--he never lost control. Rather than getting the quick fix the salvage as much of this season as possible, Scotty thought long term for the good of the team and acquired an additional 1st round pick for next year. It's too early to say if it's a good or bad move, but to me it showed integrity. He did what he felt was best for the team, rather than for his own job security.

I say we should give him the benefit, at least wait and see long enough for his first draft class to develop, and see if a different coach can do anymore with the talent he brought in. If not, then its on him. After all, he did have a say in hiring Sing. But I think the 2010 season should be the gauge for him. I know him and Sing have been here for years, but lets not overlook that there was another guy who was doing both of their jobs for most of that time. A #2 is a #2, and some very good #2's have been stuck behind some very bad #1's. I'm just not convinced that this wasn't the case.

You make some reasonable arguments for giving him another year. I also hear FL9er's point that some good GM candidates may be off put by pulling McCloughan if they in fact only see his tenure as 2 years (though I'm far from convinced that they would see it that way, as opposed to seeing that it was a 5 year leash).

My initial thread was actually a question regarding how long McCloughan is signed for. Unfortunately, it was merged into this thread and so the conversation naturally transformed into a debate about the merits of firing him. I'm not opposed to giving him one more draft, but I have to say, if we could get one of the GMs I listed above, I'd be happy to see him go after this season if the talent level is still clearly sub NFL par.