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Should Hill Really be our starter?

Should Hill Really be our starter?

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
I don't think anyone is overly excited about Hill's performance in preseason, but he is still the best the Niners have when it counts for real. I think that things will look a whole lot different when the regular season starts, especially in regards to playcalling. You just hope that his preseason performance is a link to his rep as a bad practice player.

I'm really hoping that Raye is saving his aerial attack with all this lopsided playcalling...

-9fA
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Hill is our starter, so I support him.

However, I am concerned that our offense plays at a disadvantage as the oppossing defense's clearly recognize that Q.B. Hill due to his limited arm strength, simply cannot make all the throws to all parts of the field.

Therefore, defense's do not have to worry or game plan for throws to certain parts or depths of the field.... because Hill can't make them.

We have a starting Q.B. who has limitation on his passing skills due to his arm strength, just a fact.

Mike Martz knew this, Jimmy Raye now knows this.... and most scary is the defenses know this!

One more time...this!

this is a tired argument....Hill has shown he can be successful in Martz's offense and makes most of the pass need for a team to be successful.... defenses had a chance to adjust to Hill last year and they couldn't...when it counted, Hill still moved the ball on these NFL defenses....

again it is still preseason....so I'm not going to overreact that defenses have OMG figured Hill out.

we run the ball 2 straight times then on 3rd down we miss blocks......yes this has also happened to Alex....some are saying we are just making excuse for Hill....well there is a difference...

when Alex was finally "freed" as some were screaming for the team to do..... he still struggled more times than not...... Hill has shown that he can effectively pass on 1st or 2nd down.....and this is what I'm looking forward to in the regular season....

if the play calling doesn't change in the regular season....then we all can start to panic.

I's a new season.... the defenses have had plenty of game film from the last 8 games of last season to study Hill now. They all recognize what Hill can and can't do now. Face the fact that Hill's limited arm strength does indeed limit our play calling and hurt our offense.

That being said, I still am pulling for Hill as he was named our starter.
Originally posted by haggard:
Should we have acquired a legit QB to compete with our piss pore talent at the most important position? YES!!!

This is what you get when you put your faith in a career back up with questionable arm strength, a proven 1st round bust, and a rookie with some potential but that will require at least two years of grooming.

THis...

why couldnt we bring in jeff or another former STARTER!? to compete we only bring in 2nd or 3rd stringers..ITs weak and on the other side on the bay they bring in jeff to compete with russel who is a another former 1st roundpick and not consider a bust! Makes no sense MS says we have the same talent here????? Tell me who would rather have jeff at the helm this year over hill or smith bet that poll would be 70 to 30 esp cause we could draft the future next year with our 2 first rounders or wait a bit for nate to learn...
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
Good thing we're 3-0 and not 0-3.

We're 3-0 in games that don't count, real reassuring.

OK, be 0-3 if you want.

2008 Detroit Lions

Preseason: 4-0
Regular Season: 0-16

What do you think the Lions would rather have. Preseason standings mean jack squat. They mean about as much as my Madden record.

The 49ers may be 3-0, but its the backups who have been getting the wins, not the starters. Huard in the Bronco game and Davis in the last two. How does that bode well for the regular season?

You're complaining that we're 3-0? People here would be complaining if we were any other record.

LOL so what record do you want so you won't complain?

-9fA

Let me spell this out for you since it went right over your head.

Preseason records are meaningless. They mean absolutely nothing. Ask the Lions for proof of that.

You sound like one of those people who were excited that we started 07 2-0, when there were a lot of problems. People focused to much on the record and not on what was happening on the field.

Here's what's happening on the field. Our starting QB hasn't had a single TD drive yet, the defense can't touch the opposing QB, our secondary is getting torched (mostly due to my previous point), the WR's aren't getting an separation, the o-line can't block worth crap. The only bright spots this preseason are Davis, Coffee, Sheets and Brett Miller (only because he's a former LB playing new position).

Can some of that be placed on the fact that its preseason, yes. However, we just finished our 3rd preseason game and the same problems keep popping up. At that point, its become a trend. If those problems are fixed in the preseason, they will carry over to the regular season.
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
Good thing we're 3-0 and not 0-3.

We're 3-0 in games that don't count, real reassuring.

OK, be 0-3 if you want.

2008 Detroit Lions

Preseason: 4-0
Regular Season: 0-16

What do you think the Lions would rather have. Preseason standings mean jack squat. They mean about as much as my Madden record.

The 49ers may be 3-0, but its the backups who have been getting the wins, not the starters. Huard in the Bronco game and Davis in the last two. How does that bode well for the regular season?

You're complaining that we're 3-0? People here would be complaining if we were any other record.

LOL so what record do you want so you won't complain?

-9fA

Let me spell this out for you since it went right over your head.

Preseason records are meaningless. They mean absolutely nothing. Ask the Lions for proof of that.

You sound like one of those people who were excited that we started 07 2-0, when there were a lot of problems. People focused to much on the record and not on what was happening on the field.

Here's what's happening on the field. Our starting QB hasn't had a single TD drive yet, the defense can't touch the opposing QB, our secondary is getting torched (mostly due to my previous point), the WR's aren't getting an separation, the o-line can't block worth crap. The only bright spots this preseason are Davis, Coffee, Sheets and Brett Miller (only because he's a former LB playing new position).

Can some of that be placed on the fact that its preseason, yes. However, we just finished our 3rd preseason game and the same problems keep popping up. At that point, its become a trend. If those problems are fixed in the preseason, they will carry over to the regular season.

See I can do the same thing.

The fact that the WRs have been getting few touches may be due to the fact that we've thrown the fewest passes thus far in preseason.

The o-line played very very well against the Raiders so where's this trend at?

The defense is ranked 16th in preseason in giving up yardage. That's hardly getting "torched". I can't recall them giving up a big play except the blown play on Murphy against the Raiders.

Your post is full of hyperbole, doom and gloom in PRESEASON.

-9fA
Originally posted by syoung8:
Originally posted by haggard:
Should we have acquired a legit QB to compete with our piss pore talent at the most important position? YES!!!

This is what you get when you put your faith in a career back up with questionable arm strength, a proven 1st round bust, and a rookie with some potential but that will require at least two years of grooming.

THis...

why couldnt we bring in jeff or another former STARTER!? to compete we only bring in 2nd or 3rd stringers..ITs weak and on the other side on the bay they bring in jeff to compete with russel who is a another former 1st roundpick and not consider a bust! Makes no sense MS says we have the same talent here????? Tell me who would rather have jeff at the helm this year over hill or smith bet that poll would be 70 to 30 esp cause we could draft the future next year with our 2 first rounders or wait a bit for nate to learn...

Or Culpepper two years ago, or Chris Simms this year.

Or make a legit play for Cassel, Cutler, Derek Anderson?

Hell, even Rex Grossman or Josh McCown would be decent options right now.

I wonder what the Titans would take for Vince Young?
[ Edited by haggard on Aug 30, 2009 at 12:01 PM ]
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
Good thing we're 3-0 and not 0-3.

We're 3-0 in games that don't count, real reassuring.

OK, be 0-3 if you want.

2008 Detroit Lions

Preseason: 4-0
Regular Season: 0-16

What do you think the Lions would rather have. Preseason standings mean jack squat. They mean about as much as my Madden record.

The 49ers may be 3-0, but its the backups who have been getting the wins, not the starters. Huard in the Bronco game and Davis in the last two. How does that bode well for the regular season?

You're complaining that we're 3-0? People here would be complaining if we were any other record.

LOL so what record do you want so you won't complain?

-9fA

Let me spell this out for you since it went right over your head.

Preseason records are meaningless. They mean absolutely nothing. Ask the Lions for proof of that.

You sound like one of those people who were excited that we started 07 2-0, when there were a lot of problems. People focused to much on the record and not on what was happening on the field.

Here's what's happening on the field. Our starting QB hasn't had a single TD drive yet, the defense can't touch the opposing QB, our secondary is getting torched (mostly due to my previous point), the WR's aren't getting an separation, the o-line can't block worth crap. The only bright spots this preseason are Davis, Coffee, Sheets and Brett Miller (only because he's a former LB playing new position).

Can some of that be placed on the fact that its preseason, yes. However, we just finished our 3rd preseason game and the same problems keep popping up. At that point, its become a trend. If those problems are fixed in the preseason, they will carry over to the regular season.

See I can do the same thing.

The fact that the WRs have been getting few touches may be due to the fact that we've thrown the fewest passes thus far in preseason.

The o-line played very very well against the Raiders so where's this trend at?

The defense is ranked 16th in preseason in giving up yardage. That's hardly getting "torched". I can't recall them giving up a big play except the blown play on Murphy against the Raiders.

Your post is full of hyperbole, doom and gloom in PRESEASON.

-9fA

I said the WRs aren't getting separation, not touches (there's a difference). When the QBs are throwing the ball, the defenders are right on the WRs to make plays.

Did you see the game last night where the Cowboys were pretty much lining up in our backfield. As for the Raider's game, they have a terrible run defense, that's why we ran the ball so much against them. Dallas, on the other hand, has a good run defense. That forced us to try to pass the ball. Our O-line isn't very good a pass blocking. Rachel was getting blown by, Simms just sucks. There's a huge difference between pass blocking and run blocking. Run blocking requires the O-line to try to push the defenders back. The O-line has all the momentum. Pass blocking is the exact opposite.

Did you see the game last nigh where Tony Romo had all the time in the world and was picking Clements apart. Romo had enough time to give Jessica a call and tell her he was sorry.

There's a huge gap between the Oakland Raiders and the Dallas Cowboys. Dallas is a legit NFL team, Oakland's a bottom feeder. Yes its preseason, however, teams that have problems in the preseason, tend to have those same problems in the regular season. Take pass blocking, the 49ers o-line has been bad at it for years, same with the lack of a pass rush. These aren't anything new, its the exact same problems that people keep glossing over and the team doesn't do anything to correct.

The fact that you're just blowing these problems off shows me you're full of it.
[ Edited by linkboy on Aug 30, 2009 at 12:06 PM ]
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
Good thing we're 3-0 and not 0-3.

We're 3-0 in games that don't count, real reassuring.

OK, be 0-3 if you want.

0-3 or 3-0 in the preseason means jack squat. It means about as much as my 49ers record on Madden.

Ask the 2008 Detroit Lions, who went 4-0 last preseason, if they would give up their 4 preseason wins for 1 regular season win (they would).

The 49ers may be 3-0, but its the backups who have been getting the wins, not the starters. Huard in the Bronco game and Davis in the last two. How does that bode well for the regular season?

We'll have better back-ups than we have had in recent years. These players are the future. That bodes well for the regular season. Try to be mildly optimistic!

What good are the backups if the starters are playing like garbage. Our starting QB hasn't led a single TD drive yet and we're two weeks from the start of the season.

Being optimistic can only take you so far, there's a point where reality has to start to set in.

Reality includes the facts that our best offensive player and our best defensive player have barely played yet. You think Nate Clements is going to play a casual 10 yards off every receiver once the real season begins? You think the play calling on both sides of the ball might come in flavors other than vanilla? Sure, there are things to worry about. Even the Patriots worry. Both there are also things to e optimistic about.
Originally posted by ClassicNiner:

Reality includes the facts that our best offensive player and our best defensive player have barely played yet. You think Nate Clements is going to play a casual 10 yards off every receiver once the real season begins? You think the play calling on both sides of the ball might come in flavors other than vanilla? Sure, there are things to worry about. Even the Patriots worry. Both there are also things to e optimistic about.

Our best offensive player is a RB. If our passing attack sucks, opposing defenses will continue to do what they've done the past few years, stack the box.

Willis is just a stud, can't argue that point.

And yes, Nate will be lining up 10yds off the WRs during the regular season because he's did it last season, and the season before that. Its part of the scheme Manusky is running. Why, I have no idea.

As for the playcalling, its not just us that's been vanilla, the opposing teams are as well and they're still playing better then our starters. That doesn't seem like a problem to you. Its still a level playing field and we're still getting beat.

Am I optomistic about things, yes. Coffee and Sheets look great, Davis has potential to be a great QB (if we develop him right). However, I'm not going to just gloss over things like a lot of people do on both this board and the official board.
[ Edited by linkboy on Aug 30, 2009 at 12:37 PM ]
Singletary seems to be Mike Nolan part 2, and this is really upsetting. I thought dude would be a lot more aggressive but from what I've seen he's pretty much just the type of guy looking to win close games rather then running up the score.

Too bad, thought we were going to be different this year.

To the question of the thread, IMO Hill hasn't shown a single thing this entire preseason. At least last year JTO was throwing some great passes all over the field to win the competition fairly, even in preseason. This year, Hill who was chosen as the winner has gotten outplayed by two guys, Smith and Davis.



I say if Hill costs us the game against Arizona, we should be quick to pull him out because he will definitely cost us against a fierce Seattle defense.
Originally posted by Method:

I say if Hill costs us the game against Arizona, we should be quick to pull him out because he will definitely cost us against a fierce Seattle defense.

Exactly and if we go down 0-2 in the division, we're done. In a division that's as close as the West is going to be, every single win counts.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by Method:

I say if Hill costs us the game against Arizona, we should be quick to pull him out because he will definitely cost us against a fierce Seattle defense.

Exactly and if we go down 0-2 in the division, we're done. In a division that's as close as the West is going to be, every single win counts.

So if any our QB's on the roster cost us a game, they should be pulled also???
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by Method:

I say if Hill costs us the game against Arizona, we should be quick to pull him out because he will definitely cost us against a fierce Seattle defense.

Exactly and if we go down 0-2 in the division, we're done. In a division that's as close as the West is going to be, every single win counts.

So if any our QB's on the roster cost us a game, they should be pulled also???

Yea, by the end of the season we'll be 7-9 with 10 different quarterbacks.

Shaun wins one, loses one, he's dumped. 1-1
Alex wins won, loses one he's dumped. 2-2
Damon loses, he's dumped. 2-3
Jeff George loses one, he's dumped. 2-4

.... etc LOL

ending with

Nate wins 3 to finish the season 7-9! WOOT!!!
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by Method:

I say if Hill costs us the game against Arizona, we should be quick to pull him out because he will definitely cost us against a fierce Seattle defense.

Exactly and if we go down 0-2 in the division, we're done. In a division that's as close as the West is going to be, every single win counts.

So if any our QB's on the roster cost us a game, they should be pulled also???

Yes, they should. If both Hill and Smith suck it up and Davis has to be the starter, our season will be over anyways.
Someone just posted "damn the organization for not drafting a franchise QB." Well, I say "damn the organization for not building a superior OL." Then we would see what we have in our QBs. How much better they would perform is hard to say, but I venture to guess they would have performed better.

Because our line is not good at pass protection, we are always evaluating our QBs from the point of view of who operates the best in chaos. What about who can excell when he has time? We never ask that question because we rarely see our QBs have time.