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I see the post but not the poll. Pay him?

I see the post but not the poll. Pay him?

  • KID9R
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,994
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by haggard:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by krizay:
When you sign Free agents you don't base the contract on what other teams are paying players. You don't base it on what so & so got last year. If that was the case Clements and Jennings wouldn't be 9ers. They had to pay them what they are worth or what they think he's worth.


Does Scotty Mc think he's a a #10 pick?


Quote:
Q: Talk about Crabtree, was there any way you imagined him falling to you? How quickly was that decision made?

“I thought a little bit about it, because of the fact that he did not work out at the combine. He had the foot surgery. I thought that would be the only reason that he would make it to us, in this year’s crop of players up there. But, I really didn’t think it would happen. That’s a long way for a guy like that to fall. ”

Q: Where was he on your board?

“He was high. I don’t want to get into specifics, but he was definitely one of the higher guys.”

Apparently Scotty thought Crabtree was higher than a 10th pick. So why not pay him higher than the #10 pick. Scotty thought he was the best WR in the draft (one can only assume.) So pay him as the best WR in the draft.

You guys we're cool with Clements getting paid more than he's worth. Even though his play up to that point NEVER suggested he be the highest paid defensive player ever. You guys were cool with Jennings getting his contract.

If you thought he was the best WR in the draft, one of the top players in the draft, don't be afraid to pay him as such. JUST LIKE FREE AGENCY.

Because the draft is slotted and you know what Free Agents can do in the pro's. With rookies, you just have some college tape and a vague hope he can perform in the NFL. Its no where near the same thing.

And I don't see DHB's agent rushing to give back the money he got for number 7 even though he was a reach that shouldn't have gone any where near that early. Crabtree's agent also represents the guy the Chiefs reached for at #3. I bet he's not making the value argument with them.


Re: the poll - I feel like saying "pay him" because its not my money, but I would definitely sit him if I was a GM.

the draft is not slotted. Which is why we are having this discussion. As for your Free agency comment. Did Clement show before we signed him he was the best defensive player in the league? No so why pay him to be? Did Jennings show he was fragile in Buffalo? Yes! So why pay him thinking he wouldn't be here?

LOL They are reaches in OUR OPINION. Their employers selected them because they thought they were the best at their respective positions. Thus they will/have paid them as such. So no need to make that value argument. Crab's employer thought he was a top player. thus, he should be paid as such.

Besides a QB, has any player received a contract substantially above their slot? Unlike the NBA draft, the NFL draft isn't by rule slotted, but it practice it has always been slotted. A WR asking to get paid up to 5 spots higher than he was drafted is new territory. Even with the QBs, I don't think anyone has made the kind of contract jump that Crabs is asking for.

Brady Quinn was projected higher than he went. His agent thought he deserved more money than where he was drafted. We know how that worked out.

Exactly. Where you are drafted is the most important factor in determining your contract. To argue otherwise is a waste of time.

I agree, paying him above his draft position sets a terrible precedent. We will never get another first round pick in camp on time without overpaying them. Even 2nd or 3rd rounders could start using the argument that they were "steals" and should get more money. He should about 37mil with about 18mil gua. , split Orakpo and DHB. It would be insane to overpay.
Originally posted by SoCal9er:
Offer him a contract according to what he should be making in relation to where he was drafted. Then fine him for being late to camp. The longer he holds out the more time he's going to rot on the sideline during his rookie year. Then he really won't be earning his money. Once I realized he was doing pre-Draft workouts with non-tackling primadonna fashionista Deion Sanders, a holdout became a distinct possibility. We'll see how long he holds out. One thing's for sure - he's not endearing himself to his future teammates.

You can't fine a player not under contract. How do you fine a guy with $0 in his NFL bank account?
Originally posted by haggard:
Originally posted by 24KGold:
Originally posted by Genius1310:
We all know the story. We've all heard the details. What's your opinion? Do we pay Crabs? I say Hell No.

I say Hell Yeah! Pay Crabtree and get him to camp ASAP! I would give him a nice signing bonus (enough to keep him happy), then base his salary primarily on performance incentives. He'll have the ability to make Top 5 Pick money based on his performance throughout the extent of his 4-5 year contract.

In my opinion, Crabtree is a phenom and can be a Larry Fitzgerald-type football player. Just imagine when we get into the Red Zone and we have the options to either throw to Crabtree or run Frank Gore. That's what Crabtree can do for our offense.

This guy will make an immediate impact just in Red Zone presence alone.

Fitz was widely regarded as the #1 prospect in the 2004 draft. He went #3. He didn't ask for #1 pick money. I'm fairly sure Robert Gallery got paid more than him.

As a side note, boy the Raiders are stupid. Heyward-Bay instead of Crabs and Gallery instead of Fitz.

Let me go a step further. Instead of Gallery, Russell, and Heyward-Bey, the Raiders could have either of these two combos:
1) Fitzgerald, A. Peterson, Crabtree
OR
2) Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Crabtree (try covering these three guys)

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Aug 2, 2009 at 14:35:21 ]
  • KID9R
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,994
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by haggard:
Originally posted by 24KGold:
Originally posted by Genius1310:
We all know the story. We've all heard the details. What's your opinion? Do we pay Crabs? I say Hell No.

I say Hell Yeah! Pay Crabtree and get him to camp ASAP! I would give him a nice signing bonus (enough to keep him happy), then base his salary primarily on performance incentives. He'll have the ability to make Top 5 Pick money based on his performance throughout the extent of his 4-5 year contract.

In my opinion, Crabtree is a phenom and can be a Larry Fitzgerald-type football player. Just imagine when we get into the Red Zone and we have the options to either throw to Crabtree or run Frank Gore. That's what Crabtree can do for our offense.

This guy will make an immediate impact just in Red Zone presence alone.

Fitz was widely regarded as the #1 prospect in the 2004 draft. He went #3. He didn't ask for #1 pick money. I'm fairly sure Robert Gallery got paid more than him.

As a side note, boy the Raiders are stupid. Heyward-Bay instead of Crabs and Gallery instead of Fitz.

Let me go a step further. Instead of Gallery, Russell, and Heyward-Bey, the Raiders could have either of these two combos:
1) Fitzgerald, A. Peterson, Crabtree
OR
2) Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Crabtree (try covering these three guys)

Option 2 would start to look like the lions though. 150 mil tied up at WR, that would suck
I think people are getting ahead of themselves on this one. Crabtree is coming off an injury and wouldn't really be doing much at TC either. He's not missing much. I wouldn't really except him to make much of an impact until later in the season anyway.

Generally, I think it's vital that rookies make it into camp, but when they're coming off an injury like his, I don't think it matters that much.
Originally posted by KID9R:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by haggard:
Originally posted by 24KGold:
Originally posted by Genius1310:
We all know the story. We've all heard the details. What's your opinion? Do we pay Crabs? I say Hell No.

I say Hell Yeah! Pay Crabtree and get him to camp ASAP! I would give him a nice signing bonus (enough to keep him happy), then base his salary primarily on performance incentives. He'll have the ability to make Top 5 Pick money based on his performance throughout the extent of his 4-5 year contract.

In my opinion, Crabtree is a phenom and can be a Larry Fitzgerald-type football player. Just imagine when we get into the Red Zone and we have the options to either throw to Crabtree or run Frank Gore. That's what Crabtree can do for our offense.

This guy will make an immediate impact just in Red Zone presence alone.

Fitz was widely regarded as the #1 prospect in the 2004 draft. He went #3. He didn't ask for #1 pick money. I'm fairly sure Robert Gallery got paid more than him.

As a side note, boy the Raiders are stupid. Heyward-Bay instead of Crabs and Gallery instead of Fitz.

Let me go a step further. Instead of Gallery, Russell, and Heyward-Bey, the Raiders could have either of these two combos:
1) Fitzgerald, A. Peterson, Crabtree
OR
2) Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Crabtree (try covering these three guys)

Option 2 would start to look like the lions though. 150 mil tied up at WR, that would suck

QB's would be willing to play for minimum wage to throw to these guys. So, the contracts would all work out, in the end.
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,294
Originally posted by Yetiman:
Originally posted by robduce42:
Originally posted by susweel:
Pay him for being like the number 10 pick that he is. Nothing more nothing less.

I totally agree. Right now it appears nobody between 8 and 12 has signed.


Looks like about $30 million with $18 million guaranteed for the 10 slot. Hard to imagine why he wouldn't take a package like that...

That seems fair, that would put him in the middle of the slots in front of him and under him that have signed. If he won't sign for that let him sit out. Over paying for a player can cripple a team in terms of the salary cap, especially if he is a bust
and WRs have about a 50% bust rate. Remember JJ Stokes?
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by SoCal9er:
Offer him a contract according to what he should be making in relation to where he was drafted. Then fine him for being late to camp. The longer he holds out the more time he's going to rot on the sideline during his rookie year. Then he really won't be earning his money. Once I realized he was doing pre-Draft workouts with non-tackling primadonna fashionista Deion Sanders, a holdout became a distinct possibility. We'll see how long he holds out. One thing's for sure - he's not endearing himself to his future teammates.

You can't fine a player not under contract. How do you fine a guy with $0 in his NFL bank account?

He'll be fined once he's under contract and finally shows up.
it would be stupid to pay him top 3 money, i dont care if scoty thought he was top 3 talent, he wasnt picked top 3, he was picked 10th, and should be paid 10 pick money, if we give in, and give him more than DHB got than we are idiots.

No way he should get more than 18M guaranteed IMO. And 18m is a great bonus to get, and he hasnt done anything to prove to me he is worth even that kind of money, boy do i wish we had a rookie scale, ala the NBA.
  • KID9R
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,994
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by KID9R:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by haggard:
Originally posted by 24KGold:
Originally posted by Genius1310:
We all know the story. We've all heard the details. What's your opinion? Do we pay Crabs? I say Hell No.

I say Hell Yeah! Pay Crabtree and get him to camp ASAP! I would give him a nice signing bonus (enough to keep him happy), then base his salary primarily on performance incentives. He'll have the ability to make Top 5 Pick money based on his performance throughout the extent of his 4-5 year contract.

In my opinion, Crabtree is a phenom and can be a Larry Fitzgerald-type football player. Just imagine when we get into the Red Zone and we have the options to either throw to Crabtree or run Frank Gore. That's what Crabtree can do for our offense.

This guy will make an immediate impact just in Red Zone presence alone.

Fitz was widely regarded as the #1 prospect in the 2004 draft. He went #3. He didn't ask for #1 pick money. I'm fairly sure Robert Gallery got paid more than him.

As a side note, boy the Raiders are stupid. Heyward-Bay instead of Crabs and Gallery instead of Fitz.

Let me go a step further. Instead of Gallery, Russell, and Heyward-Bey, the Raiders could have either of these two combos:
1) Fitzgerald, A. Peterson, Crabtree
OR
2) Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Crabtree (try covering these three guys)

Option 2 would start to look like the lions though. 150 mil tied up at WR, that would suck

QB's would be willing to play for minimum wage to throw to these guys. So, the contracts would all work out, in the end.


Ya for the first year.
Originally posted by SoCal9er:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by SoCal9er:
Offer him a contract according to what he should be making in relation to where he was drafted. Then fine him for being late to camp. The longer he holds out the more time he's going to rot on the sideline during his rookie year. Then he really won't be earning his money. Once I realized he was doing pre-Draft workouts with non-tackling primadonna fashionista Deion Sanders, a holdout became a distinct possibility. We'll see how long he holds out. One thing's for sure - he's not endearing himself to his future teammates.

You can't fine a player not under contract. How do you fine a guy with $0 in his NFL bank account?

He'll be fined once he's under contract and finally shows up.

The bylaws of the agreement between the NFL and NFLPA does not allow teams to fine players who are not under contract. The only players who can be fined for not showing up at camp are those currently under contract.

There is no such thing as retro-fining. Since Crabtree has never signed an NFL contract, and is not under contract with the 49ers, he cannot be fined.

Players can completely abandon the chance to sign a contract if they wish. They would re-enter the draft the following season.
Hell Yeah we should pay him, and come on how are people comparing Crabtrees career to b.jones he already jones had 1187 yds and 14 tds in 4 seasons, Crabtree had 3,127 yds and 41 tds in 2 seasons, 2 seasons!!! This man has put up numbers that we will not run into for a very long time and how can u expect him to settle for the pay of an average 10th pick when you know, I know, and believe me he knows that he is not the average 10th pick. And I am not saying to just forkover any amount that he is requesting. Listen to what he asks for and treat it like a negotiation from there, but we can not expect him to just forget his accomplishments and settle for what we believe a 10th pick should get. Believe me when this is all said and done he will get w/in the ballpark of the amount that he is asking for. So get this man into camp... oh and for all of you that say we'll be fine w/ Bruce, Morgan, and Jones, your insane. Those starters were not enough to help Gore w/ his 8 and 9 man fronts last yr and dont get me wrong they are talented recievers in their own right, but crabtree would be a major element in our O if he is able to stretch out the field. And if your depending on Brandon Jones to help get us to the playoffs and more you need to be in the loonie bin too. oh yeah and as far as the R.Woods suggestions yeah he was able to put up crabtrees numbers IN FOUR YEARS. So plz pay him and get him working w/ the team... oh yeah and no more salary cap next year, and its not like its coming out of your pocket
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
it would be stupid to pay him top 3 money, i dont care if scoty thought he was top 3 talent, he wasnt picked top 3, he was picked 10th, and should be paid 10 pick money, if we give in, and give him more than DHB got than we are idiots.

No way he should get more than 18M guaranteed IMO. And 18m is a great bonus to get, and he hasnt done anything to prove to me he is worth even that kind of money, boy do i wish we had a rookie scale, ala the NBA.

But, you know he is not going to get the regular, 10th overall pick contract.

Brady Quinn's contract, and Josh Freeman's contract far surpasses those around them, and Crabtree will sign a contract that will surpass both Monroe and Raji. And, I think the total possible compensation, with all incentives met, will be higher than DHB's. The base salary won't.
Originally posted by WestCoast:
i really really hate rookie contracts....

As do I. This is one aspect that the NFL can learn from the NBA.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The Niners are going to have to pay him similar numbers to DHB. When it comes down to it, only one moron on the planet would draft DHB first, and that moron wears a jump suit every day. All the other 6.4 billion humans sucking oxygen would have selected Crabtree first.

So, the rule of paying him like he's a regular number 10 draftee is not going to apply in this circumstance. It is not right, it is certainly something the Niners don't want to get into the habit of doing, but it is what it is. The Niners will have to compensate him higher than Raji and Monroe, and close enough to Heyward-Bey so that Parker will be satisfied.

Look for numbers slightly less than DHB's contract in guaranteed money, but incentives that possibly pass the Raiders' WR financial package.

That is a reasonable guess.

But if the 49ers do this, what will prevent next year's first round draft pick from doing the same thing?

Is this REALLY(???) based upon draft pundits?

If so, pretty soon draft pundits are going to be slipped some money under the table.

They are going to be the equivalent of rating's agencies, such as Moody's, Fitch, etc.

Looks like the draft pundits are now determining the values.


But I think it will be difficult to even get THAT done, because Parker will have to go from top 5, to "higher than DHB," to "close to DHB."
This will make him look silly the next time he tries to go for a contract 200% greater than a draft slot. And he WILL try it again.

[ Edited by BrianGO on Aug 2, 2009 at 15:10:49 ]
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