49ers to present the design of the proposed stadium tonight in Santa Clara

I was just in DC last month and spent time around the new ball park. They have built building and shops around the park but they are missing one thing, they are empty! They were thinking people would want to move into the new buildings but people haven't. What a waste. There isn't any night life around the park and it is just so sad.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by MrOrange:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
^^^

Wow...you're very accepting.

A lot of those things you pay city taxes for though probably fall more under "public obligations" whereas a football stadium really doesn't. The NFL is a lucrative business, I feel that if the owners don't have enough to pay for a stadium than they should have to ask for private donations.

Well....if thats how you feel about it you have every right to vote "no" (assuming you live in SC).

If more people feel that way than the other then the stadium won't pass.

Its really quite simple. Its put up for public vote to see if the majority of the City wants it. Even if they have zero reason for their vote other than a shorter trip to 49ers game, its a democracy and the majority wins. EVERYONE has an equal right to a vote, regardless of their reasoning.

If those who vote no get to say "but wait, I voted no" and kill the project, then your essentially taking away the rights of those who voted "yes", and thats equally unfair.

I'm sure there are ALOT of people who didn't vote for Obama BECAUSE he was black (not saying all of them...I'm just making a point). That disgusts me, but it is still their RIGHT to vote the way they want.

Bottom line...its a democracy. Deal with it.

I live in Denver and we went through this about 10 years ago w/ mile high. Now I like the game of football and back then I was ok w/ it. It is more a principle thing now. The majority does win and the minority gets the shaft....such is democracy and yes....I feel its unfair whether I benefit from a decision or not.

....And please don't tell me to get out because it isn't better anywhere else....I'm just stating that democracy doesn't really work because everyone at some point will get the shaft....more likely than not on many occasions. I guess I'm just not as accepting as you guys are.

On a side note, I started a thread in the parking lot regarding this issue and they merged it into this one.

I feel you homie that's just life. Out here in DC the owner of the Skins and Wizards fully paid for there own stadiums. But most of the cities residents were strongly against using taxpayers money for the Nationals. Mainly b/c most of the folks going to the game don't even live in DC and it appeared to be getting built for rich folks out int eh burbs instead of the little man in the city. and that's exactly what it has turned into. Folks in DC could give a rat's ass about baseball but the powers that be forced it on the city. they promised all these jobs, malls, and condo's in the area. And of the day the Nationals staduim was a big waste of taxpayers money. We schools with no fire alarms and no books but the city can pop up with millions for a baseball team? All that promised development around the stadium will never happen and was just a pipe dream. so now we stuck with a lame team and overpriced stadium. So it's really hard for anybody to say how it effects Santa Clara unless you live ther eand know things like this. I was against the Nats staduim from day one.

Originally posted by MrOrange:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
And you really haven't answered one of my questions....Should this even be a public matter? why?

Because the city benefits for the stadium. The city will own it, will run the Stadium Authority, and will benefit from things like Super Bowls that would undoubtedly be played in it on a regular basis.

You can argue that the numbers are fuzzy, but the intent of the city is to make money...even if its not directly from the stadium itself, but all of the things that will result from the stadium.

So then city then makes money...but we all know how efficient local/state/federal governments are with that money. Personally I see it as a waste...even if the stadium makes a lot of revenue for the city. My 2 cents. I hear where you're coming from though....

Well that doesn't compute.

If the Redevlopment/Hotel Tax/ funds that the City would invest in the project are recovered through stadium revenue there should be ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for anyone to complain. Revenue flow is revenue flow, no matter how inefficiently it's used.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by MrOrange:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
And you really haven't answered one of my questions....Should this even be a public matter? why?

Because the city benefits for the stadium. The city will own it, will run the Stadium Authority, and will benefit from things like Super Bowls that would undoubtedly be played in it on a regular basis.

You can argue that the numbers are fuzzy, but the intent of the city is to make money...even if its not directly from the stadium itself, but all of the things that will result from the stadium.

So then city then makes money...but we all know how efficient local/state/federal governments are with that money. Personally I see it as a waste...even if the stadium makes a lot of revenue for the city. My 2 cents. I hear where you're coming from though....

Well that doesn't compute.

If the Redevlopment/Hotel Tax/ funds that the City would invest in the project are recovered through stadium revenue there should be ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for anyone to complain. Revenue flow is revenue flow, no matter how inefficiently it's used.

Ok...I should have elaborated. If the stadium was built privately, then we the taxpayers were never out any money. If it is built w/ the assistance of public funds then not only are the taxpayers footing a portion of the bill, but then the "fruits" of that investment most likely won't be used efficiently. Its a losing situation in my book.

Originally posted by steiber:
I was just in DC last month and spent time around the new ball park. They have built building and shops around the park but they are missing one thing, they are empty! They were thinking people would want to move into the new buildings but people haven't. What a waste. There isn't any night life around the park and it is just so sad.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by MrOrange:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
^^^

Wow...you're very accepting.

A lot of those things you pay city taxes for though probably fall more under "public obligations" whereas a football stadium really doesn't. The NFL is a lucrative business, I feel that if the owners don't have enough to pay for a stadium than they should have to ask for private donations.

Well....if thats how you feel about it you have every right to vote "no" (assuming you live in SC).

If more people feel that way than the other then the stadium won't pass.

Its really quite simple. Its put up for public vote to see if the majority of the City wants it. Even if they have zero reason for their vote other than a shorter trip to 49ers game, its a democracy and the majority wins. EVERYONE has an equal right to a vote, regardless of their reasoning.

If those who vote no get to say "but wait, I voted no" and kill the project, then your essentially taking away the rights of those who voted "yes", and thats equally unfair.

I'm sure there are ALOT of people who didn't vote for Obama BECAUSE he was black (not saying all of them...I'm just making a point). That disgusts me, but it is still their RIGHT to vote the way they want.

Bottom line...its a democracy. Deal with it.

I live in Denver and we went through this about 10 years ago w/ mile high. Now I like the game of football and back then I was ok w/ it. It is more a principle thing now. The majority does win and the minority gets the shaft....such is democracy and yes....I feel its unfair whether I benefit from a decision or not.

....And please don't tell me to get out because it isn't better anywhere else....I'm just stating that democracy doesn't really work because everyone at some point will get the shaft....more likely than not on many occasions. I guess I'm just not as accepting as you guys are.

On a side note, I started a thread in the parking lot regarding this issue and they merged it into this one.

I feel you homie that's just life. Out here in DC the owner of the Skins and Wizards fully paid for there own stadiums. But most of the cities residents were strongly against using taxpayers money for the Nationals. Mainly b/c most of the folks going to the game don't even live in DC and it appeared to be getting built for rich folks out int eh burbs instead of the little man in the city. and that's exactly what it has turned into. Folks in DC could give a rat's ass about baseball but the powers that be forced it on the city. they promised all these jobs, malls, and condo's in the area. And of the day the Nationals staduim was a big waste of taxpayers money. We schools with no fire alarms and no books but the city can pop up with millions for a baseball team? All that promised development around the stadium will never happen and was just a pipe dream. so now we stuck with a lame team and overpriced stadium. So it's really hard for anybody to say how it effects Santa Clara unless you live ther eand know things like this. I was against the Nats staduim from day one.

True the part of the city where they built the staduim just isn't built for nite life. yea they did build some nice looking building but the recssion hit at the wrong time and those buildings are basically empty. They did a rush job on that for real and it's sad. the Wizards did it the right way when they built there staduim it revitalized a forgotten part of the city but it's downtown right in the middle of eveything. Football is a different subject kind of b/c folks are gonna coem out to see football in way larger numbers.

Originally posted by MrOrange:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by MrOrange:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
And you really haven't answered one of my questions....Should this even be a public matter? why?

Because the city benefits for the stadium. The city will own it, will run the Stadium Authority, and will benefit from things like Super Bowls that would undoubtedly be played in it on a regular basis.

You can argue that the numbers are fuzzy, but the intent of the city is to make money...even if its not directly from the stadium itself, but all of the things that will result from the stadium.

So then city then makes money...but we all know how efficient local/state/federal governments are with that money. Personally I see it as a waste...even if the stadium makes a lot of revenue for the city. My 2 cents. I hear where you're coming from though....

Well that doesn't compute.

If the Redevlopment/Hotel Tax/ funds that the City would invest in the project are recovered through stadium revenue there should be ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for anyone to complain. Revenue flow is revenue flow, no matter how inefficiently it's used.

Ok...I should have elaborated. If the stadium was built privately, then we the taxpayers were never out any money. If it is built w/ the assistance of public funds then not only are the taxpayers footing a portion of the bill, but then the "fruits" of that investment most likely won't be used efficiently. Its a losing situation in my book.

$100 million dollars for a stadium really isn't that much money if you look at it as a long term investment. What the life span of an NFL stadium? 25 year or so? That's 25 years f increased revenue to the city and surrounding area. If the stadium is placed in the Super Bowl rotation the city will make all it's money back and more the first time it host the big game. It was estimated that the Super Bowl brought 100,000 visitor to Tampa Bay and generated of $300 million in revenue for the area. You're looking at it as money to the city. But what about the restaurant owners who'll have packed houses on game day? Or their waiter and waitresses who's tips will sky rocket on game days? Or how about the bed and breakfast owners who'll sale out all of their rooms? The taxi drivers? Having more people visit the area is good for the small business owners as well as the people that work in the service industry. I lived in Denver for 20 years and if you've ever tried to go out to eat anywhere around Mile High Stadium on game day you know what I'm talking about. That's money going directly to the "little man".

Looks pretty damn good to me.