49ers to present the design of the proposed stadium tonight in Santa Clara

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
V.I. LENIN!



VLADIMIR ILYICH ULINOFF!

I love you and all, but you have to admit, these questions are legit.

They say their going to be the greeniest stadium in the NFL, yet they don't know if their going to use natural grass? Doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by MrOrange:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8114e703&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Just a hunch, but I think its fair to assume that we are all 9er fans here and fans of the game itself. We all know that the 9ers are wanting to build a new stadium...fine. At the bottom of the article it states that Santa Clara voters will get to decide if they will foot $114 million of the bill to build that stadium.

Lets say that the minimal voter percentage is reached to do this.

Do you think it is fair to the voters who said no....and even the ones who didn't vote to help foot that bill? How can you justify this to them? Shouldn't public funds help the community? (you could argue that it does, but its not a necessity)

If the vote goes the "Yes" way, the Niners and the City don't need to justify anything to anybody. It's democracy. One side has to lose.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8114e703&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Just a hunch, but I think its fair to assume that we are all 9er fans here and fans of the game itself. We all know that the 9ers are wanting to build a new stadium...fine. At the bottom of the article it states that Santa Clara voters will get to decide if they will foot $114 million of the bill to build that stadium.

Lets say that the minimal voter percentage is reached to do this.

Do you think it is fair to the voters who said no....and even the ones who didn't vote to help foot that bill? How can you justify this to them? Shouldn't public funds help the community? (you could argue that it does, but its not a necessity)

If the vote goes the "Yes" way, the Niners and the City don't need to justify anything to anybody. It's democracy. One side has to lose.

I guess I don't see it that way. Why is this a public matter? Why can't they ask for private donations from the people who WANT to help pay for a new stadium rather than FORCING those who could give a s**t about football to pay?

In regards to my question regarding justification I meant how YOU the voter can justify the yes vote to someone who could give a crap about football.

....and your answer was honest enough and essentially leads to my point that democracy sucks

Originally posted by MrOrange:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8114e703&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Just a hunch, but I think its fair to assume that we are all 9er fans here and fans of the game itself. We all know that the 9ers are wanting to build a new stadium...fine. At the bottom of the article it states that Santa Clara voters will get to decide if they will foot $114 million of the bill to build that stadium.

Lets say that the minimal voter percentage is reached to do this.

Do you think it is fair to the voters who said no....and even the ones who didn't vote to help foot that bill? How can you justify this to them? Shouldn't public funds help the community? (you could argue that it does, but its not a necessity)

I never voted for George Bush, so is it fair to me that he was our president for 8 f*ckin years?

Unfortunately, yes, it is "fair." (not considering the whole Florida thing, but that's not the issue at hand)

If the majority of Santa Clara voters say yes, then the people who say no have to deal with it. That's the way it works.

Originally posted by MrOrange:
Why is this a public matter? Why can't they ask for private donations from the people who WANT to help pay for a new stadium rather than FORCING those who could give a s**t about football to pay?

In my city I have to help foot the bill for many things that I don't give a rat's ass about. That's just the way it is, like it or not.

^^^

Wow...you're very accepting.

A lot of those things you pay city taxes for though probably fall more under "public obligations" whereas a football stadium really doesn't. The NFL is a lucrative business, I feel that if the owners don't have enough to pay for a stadium than they should have to ask for private donations.

Originally posted by MrOrange:
^^^

Wow...you're very accepting.

A lot of those things you pay city taxes for though probably fall more under "public obligations" whereas a football stadium really doesn't. The NFL is a lucrative business, I feel that if the owners don't have enough to pay for a stadium than they should have to ask for private donations.

Well....if thats how you feel about it you have every right to vote "no" (assuming you live in SC).

If more people feel that way than the other then the stadium won't pass.

Its really quite simple. Its put up for public vote to see if the majority of the City wants it. Even if they have zero reason for their vote other than a shorter trip to 49ers game, its a democracy and the majority wins. EVERYONE has an equal right to a vote, regardless of their reasoning.

If those who vote no get to say "but wait, I voted no" and kill the project, then your essentially taking away the rights of those who voted "yes", and thats equally unfair.

I'm sure there are ALOT of people who didn't vote for Obama BECAUSE he was black (not saying all of them...I'm just making a point). That disgusts me, but it is still their RIGHT to vote the way they want.

Bottom line...its a democracy. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
^^^

Wow...you're very accepting.

A lot of those things you pay city taxes for though probably fall more under "public obligations" whereas a football stadium really doesn't. The NFL is a lucrative business, I feel that if the owners don't have enough to pay for a stadium than they should have to ask for private donations.

Well....if thats how you feel about it you have every right to vote "no" (assuming you live in SC).

If more people feel that way than the other then the stadium won't pass.

Its really quite simple. Its put up for public vote to see if the majority of the City wants it. Even if they have zero reason for their vote other than a shorter trip to 49ers game, its a democracy and the majority wins. EVERYONE has an equal right to a vote, regardless of their reasoning.

If those who vote no get to say "but wait, I voted no" and kill the project, then your essentially taking away the rights of those who voted "yes", and thats equally unfair.

I'm sure there are ALOT of people who didn't vote for Obama BECAUSE he was black (not saying all of them...I'm just making a point). That disgusts me, but it is still their RIGHT to vote the way they want.

Bottom line...its a democracy. Deal with it.

I live in Denver and we went through this about 10 years ago w/ mile high. Now I like the game of football and back then I was ok w/ it. It is more a principle thing now. The majority does win and the minority gets the shaft....such is democracy and yes....I feel its unfair whether I benefit from a decision or not.

....And please don't tell me to get out because it isn't better anywhere else....I'm just stating that democracy doesn't really work because everyone at some point will get the shaft....more likely than not on many occasions. I guess I'm just not as accepting as you guys are.

On a side note, I started a thread in the parking lot regarding this issue and they merged it into this one.

And you really haven't answered one of my questions....Should this even be a public matter? why?

Originally posted by MrOrange:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
^^^

Wow...you're very accepting.

A lot of those things you pay city taxes for though probably fall more under "public obligations" whereas a football stadium really doesn't. The NFL is a lucrative business, I feel that if the owners don't have enough to pay for a stadium than they should have to ask for private donations.

Well....if thats how you feel about it you have every right to vote "no" (assuming you live in SC).

If more people feel that way than the other then the stadium won't pass.

Its really quite simple. Its put up for public vote to see if the majority of the City wants it. Even if they have zero reason for their vote other than a shorter trip to 49ers game, its a democracy and the majority wins. EVERYONE has an equal right to a vote, regardless of their reasoning.

If those who vote no get to say "but wait, I voted no" and kill the project, then your essentially taking away the rights of those who voted "yes", and thats equally unfair.

I'm sure there are ALOT of people who didn't vote for Obama BECAUSE he was black (not saying all of them...I'm just making a point). That disgusts me, but it is still their RIGHT to vote the way they want.

Bottom line...its a democracy. Deal with it.

I live in Denver and we went through this about 10 years ago w/ mile high. Now I like the game of football and back then I was ok w/ it. It is more a principle thing now. The majority does win and the minority gets the shaft....such is democracy and yes....I feel its unfair whether I benefit from a decision or not.

....And please don't tell me to get out because it isn't better anywhere else....I'm just stating that democracy doesn't really work because everyone at some point will get the shaft....more likely than not on many occasions. I guess I'm just not as accepting as you guys are.

On a side note, I started a thread in the parking lot regarding this issue and they merged it into this one.

I feel you homie that's just life. Out here in DC the owner of the Skins and Wizards fully paid for there own stadiums. But most of the cities residents were strongly against using taxpayers money for the Nationals. Mainly b/c most of the folks going to the game don't even live in DC and it appeared to be getting built for rich folks out int eh burbs instead of the little man in the city. and that's exactly what it has turned into. Folks in DC could give a rat's ass about baseball but the powers that be forced it on the city. they promised all these jobs, malls, and condo's in the area. And of the day the Nationals staduim was a big waste of taxpayers money. We schools with no fire alarms and no books but the city can pop up with millions for a baseball team? All that promised development around the stadium will never happen and was just a pipe dream. so now we stuck with a lame team and overpriced stadium. So it's really hard for anybody to say how it effects Santa Clara unless you live ther eand know things like this. I was against the Nats staduim from day one.

Originally posted by MrOrange:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
^^^

Wow...you're very accepting.

A lot of those things you pay city taxes for though probably fall more under "public obligations" whereas a football stadium really doesn't. The NFL is a lucrative business, I feel that if the owners don't have enough to pay for a stadium than they should have to ask for private donations.

Well....if thats how you feel about it you have every right to vote "no" (assuming you live in SC).

If more people feel that way than the other then the stadium won't pass.

Its really quite simple. Its put up for public vote to see if the majority of the City wants it. Even if they have zero reason for their vote other than a shorter trip to 49ers game, its a democracy and the majority wins. EVERYONE has an equal right to a vote, regardless of their reasoning.

If those who vote no get to say "but wait, I voted no" and kill the project, then your essentially taking away the rights of those who voted "yes", and thats equally unfair.

I'm sure there are ALOT of people who didn't vote for Obama BECAUSE he was black (not saying all of them...I'm just making a point). That disgusts me, but it is still their RIGHT to vote the way they want.

Bottom line...its a democracy. Deal with it.

I live in Denver and we went through this about 10 years ago w/ mile high. Now I like the game of football and back then I was ok w/ it. It is more a principle thing now. The majority does win and the minority gets the shaft....such is democracy and yes....I feel its unfair whether I benefit from a decision or not.

....And please don't tell me to get out because it isn't better anywhere else....I'm just stating that democracy doesn't really work because everyone at some point will get the shaft....more likely than not on many occasions. I guess I'm just not as accepting as you guys are.

On a side note, I started a thread in the parking lot regarding this issue and they merged it into this one.

I wasn't suggesting you should leave. ;-)

This is the reality...

There will NEVER be an issue that everyone agrees on. One of the purposes of government is to find a way to resolve arguements like these and the best one I've see is democracy.

How is it any more fair for a small group of people to simply make a decision than to put it up for public vote and let the people have a say.

You say that democracy sucks, but democracy might vote this thing down. If it were just up to the city this would already be a deal.

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8114e703&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Just a hunch, but I think its fair to assume that we are all 9er fans here and fans of the game itself. We all know that the 9ers are wanting to build a new stadium...fine. At the bottom of the article it states that Santa Clara voters will get to decide if they will foot $114 million of the bill to build that stadium.

Lets say that the minimal voter percentage is reached to do this.

Do you think it is fair to the voters who said no....and even the ones who didn't vote to help foot that bill? How can you justify this to them? Shouldn't public funds help the community? (you could argue that it does, but its not a necessity)

I never voted for George Bush, so is it fair to me that he was our president for 8 f*ckin years?

Unfortunately, yes, it is "fair." (not considering the whole Florida thing, but that's not the issue at hand)

If the majority of Santa Clara voters say yes, then the people who say no have to deal with it. That's the way it works.

no its not fair....how in the hell did you come up with that?

Originally posted by MrOrange:
And you really haven't answered one of my questions....Should this even be a public matter? why?

Because the city benefits for the stadium. The city will own it, will run the Stadium Authority, and will benefit from things like Super Bowls that would undoubtedly be played in it on a regular basis.

You can argue that the numbers are fuzzy, but the intent of the city is to make money...even if its not directly from the stadium itself, but all of the things that will result from the stadium.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by MrOrange:
And you really haven't answered one of my questions....Should this even be a public matter? why?

Because the city benefits for the stadium. The city will own it, will run the Stadium Authority, and will benefit from things like Super Bowls that would undoubtedly be played in it on a regular basis.

You can argue that the numbers are fuzzy, but the intent of the city is to make money...even if its not directly from the stadium itself, but all of the things that will result from the stadium.

So then city then makes money...but we all know how efficient local/state/federal governments are with that money. Personally I see it as a waste...even if the stadium makes a lot of revenue for the city. My 2 cents. I hear where you're coming from though....