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Is Frank Gore overrated??

Is Frank Gore overrated??

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Frank ran more like Al Gore in 2008 than the Frank Gore of 2006. Unfortunately, he is probably on the down side of his career, and is surely falling below some of the younger guys in the league with fresh legs.

To me, the 2009 version of Gore is a middle of the road RB in the NFL. It is too bad. He's a great kid. But, playing RB is brutal in the NFL, and he doesn't have the same game as two years ago.

VERY OVERRATED BY THIS BOARD!!!

Ugh, MD. Just ugh.

He's still averaging over 4 yards a touch. He has at least 1,000 a season. When he ran for 1700 in 2006, he touched the ball 312 times, compared to last year when he only touched 240 times in a Martz offense and grabbed just over 1,000.

I have a hard time knocking Frank Gore when his last two coordinators were Hostler (UGH) and Martz, with guys like Barry Sims on the o-line and spotty QB play.

Hard to produce when the team, in general, isn't producing.

You make a good point about fewer touches in 2008 and I factor in Frank's ankle injury as well , and I gotta agree with taking a look at how our OL has played the past two years. Our lack of a passing threat hasn't helped Frank either.

Barring injuries I think Frank has a good year in 2009 with a nice rise in his production from 2008.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Frank ran more like Al Gore in 2008 than the Frank Gore of 2006. Unfortunately, he is probably on the down side of his career, and is surely falling below some of the younger guys in the league with fresh legs.

To me, the 2009 version of Gore is a middle of the road RB in the NFL. It is too bad. He's a great kid. But, playing RB is brutal in the NFL, and he doesn't have the same game as two years ago.

VERY OVERRATED BY THIS BOARD!!!

Ugh, MD. Just ugh.

He's still averaging over 4 yards a touch. He has at least 1,000 a season. When he ran for 1700 in 2006, he touched the ball 312 times, compared to last year when he only touched 240 times in a Martz offense and grabbed just over 1,000.

I have a hard time knocking Frank Gore when his last two coordinators were Hostler (UGH) and Martz, with guys like Barry Sims on the o-line and spotty QB play.

Hard to produce when the team, in general, isn't producing.

The numbers do not lie.

Gore tied for 13th in the NFL in Total Rushing Yards.
Gore ran for 4.3 yards/carry, which would also place him in the middle of the pack for starting NFL backs. He also ran for 4.2 yards in 2007, not coming close to his 5.4 average in 2006.
Gore was 2nd in fumbles for all RB's in the NFL, fumbling the ball 6 times.
Gore was 26th in the league in TD's for RB's, with 6.
Gore was tied for 13th in yards per game, with 74/game.
Gore had only one run for more than 40+ yards.
Gore's long run of the year, for 41 yards, placed him tied for 42nd in all RB's.
Gore was 22nd in creating first down runs.

Collectively, the stats above show a middle of the pack RB, not an elite back. It is difficult for Niners fans to have a picture of the 2008 version of Gore in their heads, since the 2006 version was spectacular. However, the bottom line is that the 2006 version is not coming back. Once RB's begin to decline, they almost always continue that decline until they retire.

What I have noticed from Frank this season was the inability to hit the hole at the right time, or not identify the correct hole in the line to run through. One of the beat writers made the same observation (I believe it was MM), and this certainly has been an issue with his productivity.

The bottom line is that Gore was phenomenal in 2006, but his elite status is gone. So, there is no way he is a top 5 running back anymore. He is also not a top 10 back either, as statistically, a couple of the rookie backs will also jump into the top 10 NFL RB's this season. He fits somewhere in the middle of the pack. Sorry, but that is the reality.

One note on the Martz offense: Many believe Gore's productivity dropped due to the Martz system. Statistically, this is negligible at best. Gore averaged 17.3 rushes/game in 2007, and 17.1 rushes in 2008. Even in 2006, when he ran like a mad man, he still averaged less than 20 carries/game, at 19.5. So, the issue is not opportunity, it is productivity.

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Jun 26, 2009 at 05:18:46 ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Frank ran more like Al Gore in 2008 than the Frank Gore of 2006. Unfortunately, he is probably on the down side of his career, and is surely falling below some of the younger guys in the league with fresh legs.

To me, the 2009 version of Gore is a middle of the road RB in the NFL. It is too bad. He's a great kid. But, playing RB is brutal in the NFL, and he doesn't have the same game as two years ago.

VERY OVERRATED BY THIS BOARD!!!

Ugh, MD. Just ugh.

He's still averaging over 4 yards a touch. He has at least 1,000 a season. When he ran for 1700 in 2006, he touched the ball 312 times, compared to last year when he only touched 240 times in a Martz offense and grabbed just over 1,000.

I have a hard time knocking Frank Gore when his last two coordinators were Hostler (UGH) and Martz, with guys like Barry Sims on the o-line and spotty QB play.

Hard to produce when the team, in general, isn't producing.

The numbers do not lie.

Gore tied for 13th in the NFL in Total Rushing Yards.
Gore ran for 4.3 yards/carry, which would also place him in the middle of the pack for starting NFL backs. He also ran for 4.2 yards in 2007, not coming close to his 5.4 average in 2006.
Gore was 2nd in fumbles for all RB's in the NFL, fumbling the ball 6 times.
Gore was 26th in the league in TD's for RB's, with 6.
Gore was tied for 13th in yards per game, with 74/game.
Gore had only one run for more than 40+ yards.
Gore's long run of the year, for 41 yards, placed him tied for 42nd in all RB's.
Gore was 22nd in creating first down runs.

Collectively, the stats above show a middle of the pack RB, not an elite back. It is difficult for Niners fans to have a picture of the 2008 version of Gore in their heads, since the 2006 version was spectacular. However, the bottom line is that the 2006 version is not coming back. Once RB's begin to decline, they almost always continue that decline until they retire.

What I have noticed from Frank this season was the inability to hit the hole at the right time, or not identify the correct hole in the line to run through. One of the beat writers made the same observation (I believe it was MM), and this certainly has been an issue with his productivity.

The bottom line is that Gore was phenomenal in 2006, but his elite status is gone. So, there is no way he is a top 5 running back anymore. He is also not a top 10 back either, as statistically, a couple of the rookie backs will also jump into the top 10 NFL RB's this season. He fits somewhere in the middle of the pack. Sorry, but that is the reality.

One note on the Martz offense: Many believe Gore's productivity dropped due to the Martz system. Statistically, this is negligible at best. Gore averaged 17.3 rushes/game in 2007, and 17.1 rushes in 2008. Even in 2006, when he ran like a mad man, he still averaged less than 20 carries/game, at 19.5. So, the issue is not opportunity, it is productivity.

I agree completely. I love Frank Gore, but he does not belong in the top 5 in the NFL, and he probably doesn't belong in the top 10 either.

Several things go into his 2006 season, and the drop-off since then.

Defenses figured him out. Frank is not a "flashy" back, and he doesn't have break away speed.

He doesn't run well outside, on account of his lack of speed.

He is injury prone -- and will likely continue to be.

He is a good receiver out of the backfield, but he is no Brian Westbrook or Reggie Bush. Defenses can cover him with LB's and not fret too much.

I think that the return of Norris, continuity and progression of the offensive line, and some good health will improve his stats from 2007-2008, but Frank Gore is simply a good running back; not a great one. Fortunately we at least have that.
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Originally posted by WheresWaldo:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Gore is probably 5-10, maybe 6 or 7.

Currently...

AP
Michael Turner
Brandon Jacobs
DeAngelo Williams

And then from there, it's a toss up.

Gore
MJD
Post-toe problems LT
Barber
Addai
Steven Jackson
Portis
Westbrook (always injured though)
Slaton
Ronnie Brown
Lynch
Kevin Smith

You can't just throw DeAngelo Williams in the top 5 after one good season. Just my opinion though...

Everyone on this site did just that with Gore after his 06' season...They would practically eat you alive if you said Gore wasn't top 3.
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Originally posted by Born_Niner:
definitely top 5... i challenge anyone to give me a runnning back thats done what Gore has done with a sorry passing game.. this year might be the first in Gore's career that he may not face 8 -9 man fronts everydown. LT i'd say #1.. all day A.peterson #2(but still has'nt done it long enough).. Portis has always been consistant #3.. Gore #4 and steven jax #5.. I purposely did not add any running backs that excel by way of committee (too much help ..see B.jacobs) ..i like turner, but lets see how well he do this year with everyone game planning for him. 1 solid yr does'nt warrant a top 5.

Steven Jackson has slightly outperformed Frank Gore thus far in his career and deserves to be ranked ahead of Gore IMHO.

And FWIW currently AD > LT.
Top 10 for sure.
maybe i am on crack...but i would trade gore for stephen jackson straight up
"Defenses figured him out. Frank is not a "flashy" back, and he doesn't have break away speed."

Gore has way too many moves to be "figured out." The reason Gore's production went down is wrong scheme for him and a few injuries. He will be in the top five in terms of running back production this year. And "figured him out??!!" Come on. He's still got one of the best jump-cut moves in the game. I've seen him fake more defensive backs out of their shoes than any Niner back in a long time. He'll love this system, he's got bigger, more mauling run blockers, he loves having Norris lead block for him and he'll get more carries this season.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Frank ran more like Al Gore in 2008 than the Frank Gore of 2006. Unfortunately, he is probably on the down side of his career, and is surely falling below some of the younger guys in the league with fresh legs.

To me, the 2009 version of Gore is a middle of the road RB in the NFL. It is too bad. He's a great kid. But, playing RB is brutal in the NFL, and he doesn't have the same game as two years ago.

VERY OVERRATED BY THIS BOARD!!!

So u dont think gore can reach 1600 yds again? I think ur very wrong...
He is very good but there are legitimate criticisms.

~ He fumbles a lot.
~ He is slow as far as long speed (home run speed).
~ He has a major injury history and is banged up a lot.

Having said all that on balance he is one of our best and most reliable players. He has a huge heart and runs super hard. He gives his all on every down. He plays every down like it was his last. Not every guy on the 49ers can say that. He's been a pretty much reliable over 1,000 yards a season guy.
Originally posted by footballfreak49:
maybe i am on crack...but i would trade gore for stephen jackson straight up

Stephen Jackson is better no doubt. He is bigger and stronger and runs even harder. Also less inury history. And probably even a little faster. Sure I would trade him for Jackson.
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by 49ersMan420:
Give Gore a real OL and IMO he will lead the league in rushing.... No back hits the hole like gore!

exactly. look what he did when we had larry allen and healthy jennings... 1695 yards?? over 2,000 all purpose??? come on... top 5 for sure..

The problem is, most good backs could perform well with a solid O-line and FB. Frank is unfortunately not an elite talent, but lets face it- elite talent is hard to come by. He can be a lot more than adequate if we just give him the right support though and he's good enough to base our offense around.
heres a partial list from another forum of fans from all teams that voted.

1. Adrian Peterson
2. LaDainian Tomlinson
3. Steven Jackson
4. Clinton Portis
5. Frank Gore
6. Brian Westbrook
7. DeAngelo Williams
8. Michael Turner
9. Maurice Jones-Drew
10a. Marshawn Lynch
10b. Ronnie Brown
12. Chris Johnson
13. Brandon Jacobs
Originally posted by MadDog49er:


The numbers do not lie.

Gore tied for 13th in the NFL in Total Rushing Yards.
Gore ran for 4.3 yards/carry, which would also place him in the middle of the pack for starting NFL backs. He also ran for 4.2 yards in 2007, not coming close to his 5.4 average in 2006.
Gore was 2nd in fumbles for all RB's in the NFL, fumbling the ball 6 times.
Gore was 26th in the league in TD's for RB's, with 6.
Gore was tied for 13th in yards per game, with 74/game.
Gore had only one run for more than 40+ yards.
Gore's long run of the year, for 41 yards, placed him tied for 42nd in all RB's.
Gore was 22nd in creating first down runs.

Collectively, the stats above show a middle of the pack RB, not an elite back. It is difficult for Niners fans to have a picture of the 2008 version of Gore in their heads, since the 2006 version was spectacular. However, the bottom line is that the 2006 version is not coming back. Once RB's begin to decline, they almost always continue that decline until they retire.

What I have noticed from Frank this season was the inability to hit the hole at the right time, or not identify the correct hole in the line to run through. One of the beat writers made the same observation (I believe it was MM), and this certainly has been an issue with his productivity.

The bottom line is that Gore was phenomenal in 2006, but his elite status is gone. So, there is no way he is a top 5 running back anymore. He is also not a top 10 back either, as statistically, a couple of the rookie backs will also jump into the top 10 NFL RB's this season. He fits somewhere in the middle of the pack. Sorry, but that is the reality.

One note on the Martz offense: Many believe Gore's productivity dropped due to the Martz system. Statistically, this is negligible at best. Gore averaged 17.3 rushes/game in 2007, and 17.1 rushes in 2008. Even in 2006, when he ran like a mad man, he still averaged less than 20 carries/game, at 19.5. So, the issue is not opportunity, it is productivity.

MD I agree to an extent (that the number do not lie)... Frank only played 14 games so that has to be taken in to account and all RB's will wear down as the season progresses. Like you, I don't think he's top 5 anymore; but, I do think he cracks the top 10...

One stat that I like to look at is the YPC average for guys that got over 1000 yards (IMO this balances the stats by looking at what these guys did with the opportunities they had and gets rid of the guys that only had a hand full of starts on the year). Frank happens to be # 9 in NFL in this area. So by this I say he still is top 10...

[ Edited by D_Niner on Jun 26, 2009 at 09:24:56 ]
Originally posted by footballfreak49:
maybe i am on crack...but i would trade gore for stephen jackson straight up

Yes indeed, Crack is a Hellava drug.