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OFFENSIVE LINE PLAY: Most Important

Very much looking forward to digging into the assignments. Not wanting to place blame until I do. I will say I am glad that we struggled now though... while there's fresh tape and time to discover areas that we can improve on.
Originally posted by Allx9er:
Oline still needs to get it together, im not sure whose responsibility it is and when (sure it changes play by play) but iupati/Goodwin have to get on the same page when the stunts come from that side. Davis is coming along this game was a good barometer some good some bad he was also victim of at least one bad call. Boone is learning a new pos but looked liked he belonged, again. for our 3rd down conversion/td% to go up these jokers coaches included have to get it together and pass block as well as they run block.

Little harsh dontcha think, i thought the line looked pretty good. I dont know if there is a line in this league that pass blocks as well as it run blocks or vice versa, we cant all be the Cowboys of the 90's, however if our line can pass block at a B or B+ rate we could be the best line in the league because our guys can obviously Maul people in the run game.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Watched the game again. Focused on the starting O-line. They were dominant.

The starting O-line had one bad pass pro play when Iupati was beat badly on a swim move. Everything else was nearly flawless. The pressures were a result of Hunter failing to block a LB perfectly, and I guess the rest were due to coverage. Anthony Davis and Alex Boone are an awesome tandem.
The starting O-line was completely dominant in the running game, they were blowing some guys 5+ yards off the ball. It was ridiculous. The holding penalty called on Anthony Davis (where he made a dominant block) was pure non-sense.

The O-line was easily the most dominant unit in the game.

Yes. I get the same sense about the line. They seemed to pick up where they left off in the Vikes game. They created some huge holes for Frank, Hunter, and Jacobs against Houston. Pass protection needs more work. And maybe 3rd/4th and short could be better also. Not sure if that is the line or just Dixon...
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Aug 19, 2012 at 4:31 AM ]
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Watched the game again. Focused on the starting O-line. They were dominant.

The starting O-line had one bad pass pro play when Iupati was beat badly on a swim move. Everything else was nearly flawless. The pressures were a result of Hunter failing to block a LB perfectly, and I guess the rest were due to coverage. Anthony Davis and Alex Boone are an awesome tandem.
The starting O-line was completely dominant in the running game, they were blowing some guys 5+ yards off the ball. It was ridiculous. The holding penalty called on Anthony Davis (where he made a dominant block) was pure non-sense.

The O-line was easily the most dominant unit in the game.

Yes. I get the same sense about the line. They seemed to pick up where they left off in the Vikes game. They created some huge holes for Frank, Hunter, and Jacobs against Houston. Pass protection needs more work. And maybe 3rd/4th and short could be better also. Not sure if that is the line or just Dixon...
dixon is an idiot. I did not see the game but is it true he could not pick up third and one again?? we went through that s**t vs the giants. i hope and trust jacobs will be with us in the regular season but even if he is not, cut dixon and you put rock in there on third down calls. i always blather about fans needing to support all niners but dixon is the exception to me anyway. Hey at least kyle williams busted his ass in the off season and is working to become a better player, dixon looks like the same old sorry excuse for a running back he was last year. in regards to the lilne play,, i did not see the game, alex said alot of it was his fault which is fine but i am still nervous about this group who took 3/4 of the year to play well last season. that can not happen again this year
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Originally posted by BrianGO:
Watched the game again. Focused on the starting O-line. They were dominant.

The starting O-line had one bad pass pro play when Iupati was beat badly on a swim move. Everything else was nearly flawless. The pressures were a result of Hunter failing to block a LB perfectly, and I guess the rest were due to coverage. Anthony Davis and Alex Boone are an awesome tandem.
The starting O-line was completely dominant in the running game, they were blowing some guys 5+ yards off the ball. It was ridiculous. The holding penalty called on Anthony Davis (where he made a dominant block) was pure non-sense.

The O-line was easily the most dominant unit in the game.

The run-blocking the past two games has looked the best I've seen in quite some time. Very optimistic about the 49ers ability to just pound people with a stable of running backs.

The pass-blocking will get better (hopefully) with receivers who can get open quickly. Smith will likely remain a QB who holds onto the ball and takes a fair amount of sacks.

That game looked a lot like a Texans team that was rolling out a lot of blitzes and keeping their 1st team offense in for a while whereas the 49ers were just going through the motions and trying to get out of their unscathed. Didn't happen.

Schaub got his TD against the second team D. The special teams TD was against the second team special teamers.
Reminded me of the Baltimore game last year when the OLine could not figure out who to block or for how long, letting blitzers through untouched. Once again...too much pressure right up the middle. That's the bad! The good? They are in game two of preseason for gosh sakes! Lets not go crazy because they were fooled by unusual blitz packages. Run blocking was very good and pass blocking was good except for the blitz problem...so overall nothing to worry about--until GB.

So glad to hear the RBs are just nicked up and not out for much time. Jacobs is very impressive and Hunter impressed. Dixon made one good tough run and missed another but he did not have a hole that I could see on the latter.

Announcers were good except that they repeated the "fact" that the niners escaped injuries last year...not remembering the receiving staff where every member was injured, some out for the year. This misnomer has been repeated so many times it has become fact.

The D was OK but the DBs seemed to be porous. Of course, their first team was often playing against our second team...but that's good experience for the back ups.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Reminded me of the Baltimore game last year when the OLine could not figure out who to block or for how long, letting blitzers through untouched. Once again...too much pressure right up the middle. That's the bad! The good? They are in game two of preseason for gosh sakes! Lets not go crazy because they were fooled by unusual blitz packages. Run blocking was very good and pass blocking was good except for the blitz problem...so overall nothing to worry about--until GB.

So glad to hear the RBs are just nicked up and not out for much time. Jacobs is very impressive and Hunter impressed. Dixon made one good tough run and missed another but he did not have a hole that I could see on the latter.

Announcers were good except that they repeated the "fact" that the niners escaped injuries last year...not remembering the receiving staff where every member was injured, some out for the year. This misnomer has been repeated so many times it has become fact.

The D was OK but the DBs seemed to be porous. Of course, their first team was often playing against our second team...but that's good experience for the back ups.

Will watch the game again like BrianGo said but yeah, when we play a Dom Capers-like 3-4 (Cards, Ravens, Saints pre season, Texans, etc.) we really struggle with more exotic blitz schemes in pass protection - to the point I'm seriously worried Alex is going to get injured. Even when he has an outlet (quick receiving option) or buys time to allow a guy like Ginn to get open (amazing play BTW), Alex is getting HAMMERED. And this is a perpetual problem with this OL now. We struggled with it all last year and we essentially have the same OL.

Run blocking looks much improved however, but poor pass protection can end your season quickly.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Will watch the game again like BrianGo said but yeah, when we play a Dom Capers-like 3-4 (Cards, Ravens, Saints pre season, Texans, etc.) we really struggle with more exotic blitz schemes in pass protection - to the point I'm seriously worried Alex is going to get injured. Even when he has an outlet (quick receiving option) or buys time to allow a guy like Ginn to get open (amazing play BTW), Alex is getting HAMMERED. And this is a perpetual problem with this OL now. We struggled with it all last year and we essentially have the same OL.

Run blocking looks much improved however, but poor pass protection can end your season quickly.

I know everyone raves about Mike Solari but when does he prove he really is one of the best OL coaches? Or is it our players? We have the talent but are so inconsistent. A lot of it is mental though and like you said no know who to block. We seem to do pretty well when it's man on man. It's the exotic blitzes that cause mass confusion with us. I do think Goodwin should be upgraded over next year. According to AB he makes 5 mil next year and we save 4.3 by cutting him. Going to be hard to not move on unless he drastically improves this year.

Also, I hope it's because it's pre season but hopefully Roman has figured out how to counter with games like the Ravens one. He was a deer in headlights and maybe it was because we didn't have enough time in the offseason but the guy wouldn't call a screen. Also, why not throw more slants or quick throws to the WRs on the outside if teams are going to blitz like that. To me Roman looks like a genius at times and a bonehead at others but the guy has potential. Hopefully it was just because it is pre season and we aren't showing much but come regular season he better counter that.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Aug 19, 2012 at 8:13 AM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Will watch the game again like BrianGo said but yeah, when we play a Dom Capers-like 3-4 (Cards, Ravens, Saints pre season, Texans, etc.) we really struggle with more exotic blitz schemes in pass protection - to the point I'm seriously worried Alex is going to get injured. Even when he has an outlet (quick receiving option) or buys time to allow a guy like Ginn to get open (amazing play BTW), Alex is getting HAMMERED. And this is a perpetual problem with this OL now. We struggled with it all last year and we essentially have the same OL.

Run blocking looks much improved however, but poor pass protection can end your season quickly.

I know everyone raves about Mike Solari but when does he prove he really is one of the best OL coaches? Or is it our players? We have the talent but are so inconsistent. A lot of it is mental though and like you said no know who to block. We seem to do pretty well when it's man on man. It's the exotic blitzes that cause mass confusion with us. I do think Goodwin should be upgraded over next year. According to AB he makes 5 mil next year and we save 4.3 by cutting him. Going to be hard to not move on unless he drastically improves this year.

Also, I hope it's because it's pre season but hopefully Roman has figured out how to counter with games like the Ravens one. He was a deer in headlights and maybe it was because we didn't have enough time in the offseason but the guy wouldn't call a screen. Also, why not throw more slants or quick throws to the WRs on the outside if teams are going to blitz like that. To me Roman looks like a genius at times and a bonehead at others but the guy has potential. Hopefully it was just because it is pre season and we aren't showing much but come regular season he better counter that.

It seemed to me last year that our line was put together for running, except for Staley, and pass blocking will always be their second best skill set. Maulers rather than quickness. I also believe that is one reason Harbaugh ran so much last year, to keep Smith healthy.

So timing plays will be important, where Smith can release the ball before the receivers make their breaks in about 1.5 seconds. They haven't been very effective with these blitz beating passes because Ds have caught up with this tactic and are disguising their blitzes so well.

The offense needs to:

1) run effectively at will--which they are close to doing
2) shift to the blitzer rather than stay with the guy who is back pedaling--not doing
3) run timing routes with the QB trusting the receivers to be where they are suppose to be--tried with some success
4) receivers need to attack the ball


Of course, much of this will not be shown during preseason as Harbaugh will likely play vanilla until GB.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Aug 19, 2012 at 8:51 AM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Will watch the game again like BrianGo said but yeah, when we play a Dom Capers-like 3-4 (Cards, Ravens, Saints pre season, Texans, etc.) we really struggle with more exotic blitz schemes in pass protection - to the point I'm seriously worried Alex is going to get injured. Even when he has an outlet (quick receiving option) or buys time to allow a guy like Ginn to get open (amazing play BTW), Alex is getting HAMMERED. And this is a perpetual problem with this OL now. We struggled with it all last year and we essentially have the same OL.

Run blocking looks much improved however, but poor pass protection can end your season quickly.

I know everyone raves about Mike Solari but when does he prove he really is one of the best OL coaches? Or is it our players? We have the talent but are so inconsistent. A lot of it is mental though and like you said no know who to block. We seem to do pretty well when it's man on man. It's the exotic blitzes that cause mass confusion with us. I do think Goodwin should be upgraded over next year. According to AB he makes 5 mil next year and we save 4.3 by cutting him. Going to be hard to not move on unless he drastically improves this year.

Also, I hope it's because it's pre season but hopefully Roman has figured out how to counter with games like the Ravens one. He was a deer in headlights and maybe it was because we didn't have enough time in the offseason but the guy wouldn't call a screen. Also, why not throw more slants or quick throws to the WRs on the outside if teams are going to blitz like that. To me Roman looks like a genius at times and a bonehead at others but the guy has potential. Hopefully it was just because it is pre season and we aren't showing much but come regular season he better counter that.

Yeah, you brought up my two other big concerns: Solari & Roman. When you see your QB getting heat on every play, their CB's playing tight and physical up at the LOS, you throw hot reads, slants, screens, etc. and burn their defense. The Texans played us like exactly how other teams have had success with (formula): play tight, physical at the LOS with the secondary, stack 8-10 in the box, overload run blitz esp. up the middle. Works every time!

This is your starting QB in pre season and Alex could have EASILY ended up with another destroyed shoulder with the hits, body slams he was taking. And it's not like we don't have a plethora of RAC guys who could destroy their blitzes and back them off the LOS (Hunter, James, Williams, Jenkins, Manningham, VD, etc.).

Meanwhile, I'm watching Houston not allowing their QB to even be touched. We will NOT be a Superbowl team until this problem is addressed (poor RZ, 1st & 3rd down %/gains, etc.) are just by-products of an OL, coach and OC not on the same page. I also noticed that our OL struggles "staying" with their blocks at times.
^ just so we don't start huge quotes I agree NCommand and dtg... I think we are going to be heavy run. like 50-55% gore, 35% Hunter 10-15% between James and short yardage for Jacobs. Don't be surprised if Jacobs is in there on non short yardage at the end of the game when we are trying to ram it down their throats and kill clock. I know they want to be balanced but I would say 55-45 to the run. I expect more screens this year... more slants.. I hope Roman is just being vanilla during pre season and like I said I hope he adjust unlike the Baltimore game. Shots down the field to Moss, Manningham and Jenkins on occasion. Roman needs to help out the OL... clearly they are suited for run blocking so like I said hopefully it's heavy run attacks. If the defense is stacked play actions!!! I would have no problem if we run some options with Kaepernick but we can't have Kap do it every time or it is too predictable. Once in awhile he should throw out of the pistol. I don't want it to be too much though... I hated when the Eagles brought in Vick to run option when they had McNabb and it seemed to kill drives. Just toss it in once in awhile. Keep the defense guessing.

I hope we run more jet sweeps this year as well. Otherwise a fake jet sweep and a toss to the RB should work as well. More two back sets... hunter and gore are our 2 best players on offense along with Vernon. Get them on the field together. Spread James/hunter wide, get the defense guessing. Now granted we were much more creative last year than Sing's run it up the middle every time but there is so much more we can do and we have so many weapons to use. I am rambling but get the ball to Crabtree early and often. Same with VD... those guys play their best when they get the ball fed to them... you don't get them involved they disappear and our team usually plays worse.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Aug 19, 2012 at 9:11 AM ]
Originally posted by qwestlove94:
Originally posted by Allx9er:
Oline still needs to get it together, im not sure whose responsibility it is and when (sure it changes play by play) but iupati/Goodwin have to get on the same page when the stunts come from that side. Davis is coming along this game was a good barometer some good some bad he was also victim of at least one bad call. Boone is learning a new pos but looked liked he belonged, again. for our 3rd down conversion/td% to go up these jokers coaches included have to get it together and pass block as well as they run block.

Little harsh dontcha think, i thought the line looked pretty good. I dont know if there is a line in this league that pass blocks as well as it run blocks or vice versa, we cant all be the Cowboys of the 90's, however if our line can pass block at a B or B+ rate we could be the best line in the league because our guys can obviously Maul people in the run game.

No, not harsh at all. Imho we cant keep explaining away the hurries, hits and sacks that result as a consequence of some "exotic" look. It happened a lot last year into both A gaps. Boone gets a temp pass for obvious reasons. Everybody else coaches included have plenty of work to do solving a problem that at least should be somewhat better.

Hunter and lmj can't stonewall their assignment all the time just because of their stature and im cool with that, i know rathman will turn them into the best complete rb's they can be.

If the pressures are a result of some 6 man + scheme i'd be more forgiving. I may be alone but i don't consider 4-5 man rush and all it entails as an exotic look. Zone blitzes, sophisticated stunts have been around long enough so as to not surprise especially when coming from a 4-5 man rush. If Houston was pulling their version of the preseason saints ok, i get it, dont like it but i get it. If not, alex is going to be running for his life again because the pressure is only get worse when the games count.
Originally posted by Allx9er:
No, not harsh at all. Imho we cant keep explaining away the hurries, hits and sacks that result as a consequence of some "exotic" look. It happened a lot last year into both A gaps. Boone gets a temp pass for obvious reasons. Everybody else coaches included have plenty of work to do solving a problem that at least should be somewhat better.

Hunter and lmj can't stonewall their assignment all the time just because of their stature and im cool with that, i know rathman will turn them into the best complete rb's they can be.

If the pressures are a result of some 6 man + scheme i'd be more forgiving. I may be alone but i don't consider 4-5 man rush and all it entails as an exotic look. Zone blitzes, sophisticated stunts have been around long enough so as to not surprise especially when coming from a 4-5 man rush. If Houston was pulling their version of the preseason saints ok, i get it, dont like it but i get it. If not, alex is going to be running for his life again because the pressure is only get worse when the games count.

What I saw, and the announcer mentioned, the DL were faking forward and then dropping back in coverage, while LBs and DBs were Blitzing late. Same problem they had in Baltimore last year and you are correct...they had better figure it out! Part of problem may be Smith not recognizing it and not calling an audible but the OLine looked very confused at times.

Not sure if part of it is the spread of the pocket, or is it just getting beaten? Don't remember all of them but one near sack was right between Boone and Davis.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Aug 19, 2012 at 11:09 AM ]
1st drive:

1st sack coverage sack. Smith did look middle and to the left for a dump off but all was covered

2nd sack on hunter.

2nd drive:

Miscommunication with #84 Moss, thought Moss would go upfield but somehow he got turned around while the ball was in the air. Thus the over throw and almost iNT.

#77 Iupati missed a block up the middle. Too aggressive. His guys went right around him


Overall big huge holes by the O-line in the run game. Short yardage needs work by both the line and RB. Dixon needs to work on his strength. Keep his legs moving forward and drive. Seems like Hunter learned a little of that from Frank, cause he look a little like Frank in some of those inside runs Scheme wise the O-line handled the blitz, but individually a couple of guys just didn't make the block.

Needs some more work, but the offense looks on track.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Aug 19, 2012 at 11:40 AM ]
Ok, after rewatching the first o-line's performance, we seem to be coming along but there are still things that need to be worked on.

*Anthony Davis was kind of up and down in my opinion. If not for the terrible replacement refs he would've gotten two false start penalties. It looks like he's setting up too wide and his man is getting to the qb as a result, especially on that first sack (i think it was the first one), he needs to get into his man earlier as opposed to just opening up and waiting for him to rush. Couple times he was slow off the ball, did show some ability to own his man though.

*Boone looks good in pass protection, looks like he knows who to block. Did see a couple things in his run blocking, particularly his pulling. He could have been quicker a few times, one play in particular where he got held up by the crashing d-lineman, had he gotten clean to the defensive end the play doesnt get blown up in the backfield. He will improve as he continues to get comfortable at guard.

*Iupati looked solid in the run game but got caught leaning pretty bad on that sack, he cant be getting beat on swim moves like that. Clearly the line's worst play of the night.

Goodwin and Staley looked solid.


On a side note, on that last sack where the Texans rushed five, I thought they picked up that blitz pretty well, Alex should have hit crabtree to the left when he hit his back foot, he saw that rush coming and took off.

Overall I think the pass blocking could look better but it wasnt terrible.
[ Edited by qwestlove94 on Aug 19, 2012 at 3:14 PM ]