OFFENSIVE LINE PLAY: Most Important

Originally posted by Joecool:
This year, I'm taking absolutely zero from preseason. Well, except to see how Kap looks out there in terms of a football player.

What did you get out of last preseason if I might ask? I thought alex looked improved but still had some of the same habits, and I thought our defense was going to be good. Our offense still looked predictable, but it looked like we could actually block.

of the above....
-Alex was improved, but not enough by 49er QBing standards.
-Our defense sucked (mostly against the pass)
-Our offense was horribad, I couldn't wait for Raye to go.
- And coach sing was still an eyesore on the sidelines.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
...................

I respectfully submit that player development is the true culprit, and not just along the line.

I agree....I just think its funny how Alex Smith can somehow find his way into every arguement about any group of players underperforming.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
I'm willing to go out on a limb that no other NFL team in the past 5-7 years has invested as many high round draft picks on offensive linemen. Our O-line coaches have had good credentials and while they have had some success at run blocking, pass blocking has been a constant problem.

Why? Why?

I beg to differ in that George Warhop has been stealing money for years an as "OL coach." The guy was not good. I applauded when he was let go in mid-season, IIRC.

As to your main point, I believe that both Nolan and Singletary put so much emphasis on running the ball that they did not spend adequate amount of time on pass protect. Also, too much of the time was spent in man blocking which is very difficult to pass protect in, especially once the defense figures you out and start to loop and stunts. Though Chilo has had enough problems for which there are not excuses, one thing I will NOT fault him on is the many times he was beaten when in an obvious man scheme and the defense looped or stunted and he wound up blocking air.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I like this line. To be honest, I dunno why peeps are so hard on Rachal. Anthony Davis struggles ALOT more than Rachal did last year.

Staley: Good but not Great. Definitely Good Enough.
Iupati: Future Pro Bowler.
Goodwin: Solid, but not spectacular.
Rachal: Much better than peeps give him credit for. For some reason he's become the line whipping boy.
Davis: Struggled, but got himself in shape this offseason so I hope he makes a big push this year.

Snyder: I love this guy. Just tell me where to play and I'll play. Never a star, but always gets it done.
Wragge: Sold backup interior player.
Boone: Who knows? Might be good, but has never really gotten an opportunity.

but its common knowledge that both rachal and davis struggle in pass protection. ideally you never want 2 players who struggle at the same technique on the same side. hopefully harbaugh will get it straightened out. harbaugh doesnt strike me as the type to just keep banging his head against the wall. if somethings not working he is going to fix it and put the best player on the field. the fact that we didnt add any fa at rg or rt bodes well for us though. i cant wait for tonight!

If you don't know that Mike Iupati was a first round pick, nor that Chilo Rachal was a second round pick, nor that we acquired Jonathan Goodwin a PRO BOWL center and Super Bowl starter, then why post a thread to "educate" people about offensive line play and the state of our offensive line.

Originally posted by unst4bl3:

Originally posted by Joecool:
This year, I'm taking absolutely zero from preseason. Well, except to see how Kap looks out there in terms of a football player.

What did you get out of last preseason if I might ask? I thought alex looked improved but still had some of the same habits, and I thought our defense was going to be good. Our offense still looked predictable, but it looked like we could actually block.

of the above....
-Alex was improved, but not enough by 49er QBing standards.
-Our defense sucked (mostly against the pass)
-Our offense was horribad, I couldn't wait for Raye to go.
- And coach sing was still an eyesore on the sidelines.

As soon as Baas floated that snap over Alex Smith's head in their first play in game 1 of regular season last year...that told me preseason shows jack crap.

Originally posted by Joecool:
As soon as Baas floated that snap over Alex Smith's head in their first play in game 1 of regular season last year...that told me preseason shows jack crap.

that was all nerves.

Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:

Originally posted by Joecool:
As soon as Baas floated that snap over Alex Smith's head in their first play in game 1 of regular season last year...that told me preseason shows jack crap.

that was all nerves.

So was the Crabtree deflection/INT and all the other crap in Game 1 that pretty much defined our season.

Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I like this line. To be honest, I dunno why peeps are so hard on Rachal. Anthony Davis struggles ALOT more than Rachal did last year.

Staley: Good but not Great. Definitely Good Enough.
Iupati: Future Pro Bowler.
Goodwin: Solid, but not spectacular.
Rachal: Much better than peeps give him credit for. For some reason he's become the line whipping boy.
Davis: Struggled, but got himself in shape this offseason so I hope he makes a big push this year.

Snyder: I love this guy. Just tell me where to play and I'll play. Never a star, but always gets it done.
Wragge: Sold backup interior player.
Boone: Who knows? Might be good, but has never really gotten an opportunity.

but its common knowledge that both rachal and davis struggle in pass protection. ideally you never want 2 players who struggle at the same technique on the same side. hopefully harbaugh will get it straightened out. harbaugh doesnt strike me as the type to just keep banging his head against the wall. if somethings not working he is going to fix it and put the best player on the field. the fact that we didnt add any fa at rg or rt bodes well for us though. i cant wait for tonight!

Yes, Davis struggled last year (particularly agains Chris Long), but is really "common knowledge" that Rachal struggles, or is that just what peeps in the zone have been regurgitating because its popular opinion?

I kinda think its the latter. I remember Justin Smiley and David Baas getting beaten like a drum when playing guard, but I don't remember to many instances of Rachal getting beaten that badly. I keep hearing on the zone about how bad he is, but I don't remember seeing to many plays where he was the guy that didn't make the block or he was the guy who gave up the sack.

I think its just become popular to bash him.

Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:

Originally posted by Joecool:
As soon as Baas floated that snap over Alex Smith's head in their first play in game 1 of regular season last year...that told me preseason shows jack crap.

that was all nerves.

Yeah, and he never did it again.

Originally posted by dj43:

I beg to differ in that George Warhop has been stealing money for years an as "OL coach." The guy was not good. I applauded when he was let go in mid-season, IIRC. As to your main point, I believe that both Nolan and Singletary put so much emphasis on running the ball that they did not spend adequate amount of time on pass protect. Also, too much of the time was spent in man blocking which is very difficult to pass protect in, especially once the defense figures you out and start to loop and stunts. Though Chilo has had enough problems for which there are not excuses, one thing I will NOT fault him on is the many times he was beaten when in an obvious man scheme and the defense looped or stunted and he wound up blocking air.

I agree with you about Warhop - though I did say "good credentials" - as in he's had a wealth of offensive line coach positions from college to the pros prior to getting the Niner gig.

I really hope that (better emphasis on passing and pass blocking) is the case with Harbaugh and his offensive staff this year, and we start getting better results, or else I'll really get serious about my "Alex Smith is the problem" stance. lol.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:

Originally posted by Joecool:
As soon as Baas floated that snap over Alex Smith's head in their first play in game 1 of regular season last year...that told me preseason shows jack crap.

that was all nerves.

So was the Crabtree deflection/INT and all the other crap in Game 1 that pretty much defined our season.

I dunno what it was about last year, but those frst five weeks were some of the unluckient I have ever seen. Now maybe some of that is actually lack of preperation by the coaches, some lazyness by players, or just players not being where they are supposed to be, but I have never seen a 5 game stretch like that where the ball just bounced the other way every single freakin' time.

Alex was an interception machine, but almost ALL of them were tipped in the air or something. It was crazy.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
I'm willing to go out on a limb that no other NFL team in the past 5-7 years has invested as many high round draft picks on offensive linemen. Our O-line coaches have had good credentials and while they have had some success at run blocking, pass blocking has been a constant problem.

Why? Why?

I beg to differ in that George Warhop has been stealing money for years an as "OL coach." The guy was not good. I applauded when he was let go in mid-season, IIRC.

As to your main point, I believe that both Nolan and Singletary put so much emphasis on running the ball that they did not spend adequate amount of time on pass protect. Also, too much of the time was spent in man blocking which is very difficult to pass protect in, especially once the defense figures you out and start to loop and stunts. Though Chilo has had enough problems for which there are not excuses, one thing I will NOT fault him on is the many times he was beaten when in an obvious man scheme and the defense looped or stunted and he wound up blocking air.

Whoop! Quotes are working!

It will be interesting to see how the line plays, but also how the backups play. I expect to see at least one, perhaps two, Stanford linemen to make the team as backups. Not necessarily because they are more talented than the "other guys," but because they know the Harbaugh offensive system and are well grounded in it.

Bill Walsh inheirited a GREAT line when he came onboard in 1978, but it was just as unheralded and full of questions marks as our current line is. Nobody would ever guess that Randy Cross, John Ayers, Fred Quillan, Keith Fahnhorst would pave the way to two or three Super Bowl titles. But they did. And nobody knew who the kids were in 1978. Nobody knew how they would perform -- nor how well they would grow together as a unit.

You can give all the credit in the world to Bill Walsh for those Super Bowl titles, and it's well deserved. But it's Monte Clarke who drafted and built that line, and nobody gives Monte any credit.

My thanks to the people who are working on getting the bugs out of the new system. It's much improved today!

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
A bad o line will ruin a young qb, it all starts up front Pete, you should know that.

I do know that. Alex Smith doesn't play consistently well whether hes had time or not. The line has at least been good enough to allow 4 concecutive 1000 seasons for their starting running back. The QB can make a OL look as bad in passprotection as the OL can make a QB look bad in the pocket.

Originally posted by billbird2111:
Whoop! Quotes are working!

It will be interesting to see how the line plays, but also how the backups play. I expect to see at least one, perhaps two, Stanford linemen to make the team as backups. Not necessarily because they are more talented than the "other guys," but because they know the Harbaugh offensive system and are well grounded in it.

Bill Walsh inheirited a GREAT line when he came onboard in 1978, but it was just as unheralded and full of questions marks as our current line is. Nobody would ever guess that Randy Cross, John Ayers, Fred Quillan, Keith Fahnhorst would pave the way to two or three Super Bowl titles. But they did. And nobody knew who the kids were in 1978. Nobody knew how they would perform -- nor how well they would grow together as a unit.

You can give all the credit in the world to Bill Walsh for those Super Bowl titles, and it's well deserved. But it's Monte Clarke who drafted and built that line, and nobody gives Monte any credit.

My thanks to the people who are working on getting the bugs out of the new system. It's much improved today!

Dude, I just want to say how awesome it is to read you post when you're happy. Great stuff!