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ESPN's Clayton thinks SF will be 3rd in NFC West

The 49ers moved to solve some problems from last year, but so did everyone else in the division.

Much of this board is under-rating the Cardinals. They have a lot of young talent on that team, along with the best WR corp in the league. The talk about Boldin and Dansby is just that. Whisenhunt is another Singletary - he doesn't put up with prima donnas. AZ was one drive from winning the Super Bowl, and all that history about SB losers is just history. It has no cause/effect relationship. AZ is still the best in the division by a substantial margin.

Seattle is the wild card. Hasselbeck is the key. If he's healthy, they could challenge AZ, but that would be a reach.

The 49ers then wind up fighting for an 8-8 season, and that will not get them a wild card birth. I like Hill but with the game on the line, Warner and Hasselbeck are better.

Sorry, that's the way I see it.
Originally posted by danimal:
Originally posted by elguapo:
Let' s see how we improved....

1. Hill as a full time starter not just half the season...right there that's a few games (even if it's smith, the fact that o'sullivan is not here we will turn it over less)

2. More running the ball with gore and co not to mention we have a FB now who can block. less blindside hits may help too by running the ball more and controlling the clock more. Remember how our time of possession was really good towards the end of the year.

3. Marvel Smith - even if healthy only half the year is better than sims, who cost us many sacks and the mia game at the end. The fact that synder is backup over sims even if marvel gets injured is a good thing too. Better O line play for the run and pass will help our offense.

4. Vernon not just blocking - Martz never had a great TE with talent who is open most of the time, he just used wr's. Well Davis will get the ball more than 30 times this year and that will help the offense.

5. On D, well our D was great especially the end of last year, best D in the division. best secondary, best lb's now that petersen is gone, and our dl is pretty dam good with smith.

Crabtree morgan and bruce will help out the offense as well.

I don't see how the niners won't finish ahead of the seahawks and at least the same record as the cards. People seem to forget we only lost by 10 points the first game after 5 turnovers and by 1 yard and a few horrible calls the second game to the cards.

1. Since Garcia, QB1 has been played by a 3rd tier QB, Hill is just a continuation of that. This is not an improvement. Rattay, Dorsey, Smith, Dilfer, JTO, Shaun Hill and others...NONE were\are an improvement over the other.....its just 1 mediocre QB taking over for another

2. Just saying...hey guys...lets be a running team....doesn't actually make you a running team. Just executing snaps to handoff to a runner, doesn't make you a smashmouth team...sometimes it just makes you a 3 and out team

3. I think our O-line is slightly better than 08'...but I don't think they are much better than a #15 ranked o-line...not sure where I would rank em in the division

4. Don't pretend that Martz reduced Vernon to be a blocker...that has been how he has been used for a few years now by many different coaches. We have to consider that we just might a blocking TE combine freak that we drafted #6. Vernon is on thin ice from being a bust....Martz gone doesn't change that...only Vernon can

5. Maybe we are tuning into different games...but the Niners Defense I see is GOOD...not Great. Maybe they could be great, but the O and their 3 and out Smash mouth rock em sock em new attitude on O.....will put them in very bad positions

and will zoners PLEASE stop using the Arizona game as some kind of indicator. Anybody who knows the NFL should know division play doesn't tell you anything about the teams and how they rank up. Case and point...during the New England dynasty, the Fins were known to upset them almost every year...sometimes in New England as well. Does that mean Miami was close to being a Dynasty team? It is very common for a championship team to go 3-3 in their division...that does not tell you anything about the other teams in their division...it just tells you that division rivals usually play each other close...no matter what end of the spectrum the teams happen to exist in outside of their own series.

MAYBE you need to see the point of my post. I don't think you really tuned into the same football games that the rest of the football world was watching just like you were not tuned into my post. You tried comparing:
1. other qb's to Hill. Mistake because they had other casts, and attributes.
2. i was saying running more is IN FACT a way not to throw int's and get sacked which we did allow so much last year.....logic 101. I was not saying anything regarding 3 and outs.
3. OL well we lost our starter at RT and our Backup and sims destroyed quite a few plays and helped lose some games for us. Our OL improves regardless unless synder and smith gets injured. ....i said nothing about our status compared to the rest of the league. Just that it was better than last year.
4. Vernon blocked more last year than ever and Martz does not use TE's....fact....101 again.
5. Everybody knows our D is very good and often times more than very good.

And you see that divisions do have more experience playing eachother and do know eachother....common sense. My point was we got better in those 5 points were my justifications. US "ZONERS" can use the arizona game as an indicator or the above reasons why we will win the division and it does make alot of sense. Sorry for a little dose of reality
  • rulo
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Originally posted by NolanHasAPlan:
Originally posted by danimal:
1. Since Garcia, QB1 has been played by a 3rd tier QB, Hill is just a continuation of that. This is not an improvement. Rattay, Dorsey, Smith, Dilfer, JTO, Shaun Hill and others...NONE were\are an improvement over the other.....its just 1 mediocre QB taking over for another
Just because we have value at QB position doesn't make those QBs 3rd tier. We have singletary, don't we? Singletary can motivate journeymen into probowlers, can't he?

Originally posted by danimal:
2. Just saying...hey guys...lets be a running team....doesn't actually make you a running team. Just executing snaps to handoff to a runner, doesn't make you a smashmouth team...sometimes it just makes you a 3 and out team
Raye can call historic plays that averages 3.4 yards/play. So all good.

Originally posted by danimal:
3. I think our O-line is slightly better than 08'...but I don't think they are much better than a #15 ranked o-line...not sure where I would rank em in the division
Singletary can motivate journeymen into probowlers, can't he?

Originally posted by danimal:
4. Don't pretend that Martz reduced Vernon to be a blocker...that has been how he has been used for a few years now by many different coaches. We have to consider that we just might a blocking TE combine freak that we drafted #6. Vernon is on thin ice from being a bust....Martz gone doesn't change that...only Vernon can
Singletary can motivate Vernon into probowlers, can't he?

Originally posted by danimal:
5. Maybe we are tuning into different games...but the Niners Defense I see is GOOD...not Great. Maybe they could be great, but the O and their 3 and out Smash mouth rock em sock em new attitude on O.....will put them in very bad positions
Wanna hear what singletary can do again?



Damn!!!, you are really a pain in the ass!!!!!
Originally posted by RamItOn:
Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
What a buncha bulls**t,the shehawks are as bad as than they were last year,we have improved(fired Nolan and Martz the moron).

we did nothin really to improve this offseason,and a martz system is better for crabtree because he ran the spread offense with the red raiders so our run first offense won't really benefit our first round pick. marvel smith for jonas jennings is about gettin the same player really. brandon jones ? give me a break. seahawks had both starting WRs out last year and Hasslebeck and still kicked our ass on our home turf. they gettin TJ housh, Deon branch , Hasslebeck and now Curry , they would have easily won the NFC west last year if they stayed healthy and i dont see us having a better record than zona. im not being a downer i really hope we win the superbowl every year but being realistic here. i see it ending like this

1. Seahawks 10-6
2. Arizona 9-7
3. 49ers 8-8
4. Rams 4-12

I agree with Primetime, except that he gives the Rams too much credit with four wins.

Ok, I have to point out a couple of things here...

First off we beat the SeaChickens last year when Hasselbeck started. We lost to them when Hasselbeck was out...

Second, Most of those years that Jerry Rice was tearing up the record books, we had an awesome run game as well. It doesn't matter which way you set it up (run to set up the pass or pass to set up the run); the objective is to create mismatches and then take advantage of them. Having a guy like Crabtree will only help Gore (and vise-versa).

Lastly, We match up well against AZ. It was Martz that cost us that second game last year... If we won we would have finished 8-8 and AZ would have been 8-8.
I could see Seattle doing well next year. While they still don't have much of a run game, we barely squeaked out our first win, and got handled in the second game. Seattle was plagued with injuries at QB and WR. If I recall correctly, they were down to their 5th and 6th WRs. On D, they lost a few people but gained some also, so that breaks even. They could easily win the division...

I just have this gut shot feeling that Arizona is going to totally flop this year. The same way I felt Tennessee would lose their first game in the playoffs in 08'. They have Fitz, Warner, and an unhappy Boldin. If we get a solid pass rush this year, we are going to tear them to pieces. They also did not change much on D.

St. Louis, well, do I really need to say more than St. Louis?

We could easily go second in the division, or third if I am wrong about Arizona... It is really anyone's game though. Seattle showed us last year how a few key injuries can wreck a season...
Originally posted by rulo:
Originally posted by NolanHasAPlan:
Originally posted by danimal:
1. Since Garcia, QB1 has been played by a 3rd tier QB, Hill is just a continuation of that. This is not an improvement. Rattay, Dorsey, Smith, Dilfer, JTO, Shaun Hill and others...NONE were\are an improvement over the other.....its just 1 mediocre QB taking over for another
Just because we have value at QB position doesn't make those QBs 3rd tier. We have singletary, don't we? Singletary can motivate journeymen into probowlers, can't he?

Originally posted by danimal:
2. Just saying...hey guys...lets be a running team....doesn't actually make you a running team. Just executing snaps to handoff to a runner, doesn't make you a smashmouth team...sometimes it just makes you a 3 and out team
Raye can call historic plays that averages 3.4 yards/play. So all good.

Originally posted by danimal:
3. I think our O-line is slightly better than 08'...but I don't think they are much better than a #15 ranked o-line...not sure where I would rank em in the division
Singletary can motivate journeymen into probowlers, can't he?

Originally posted by danimal:
4. Don't pretend that Martz reduced Vernon to be a blocker...that has been how he has been used for a few years now by many different coaches. We have to consider that we just might a blocking TE combine freak that we drafted #6. Vernon is on thin ice from being a bust....Martz gone doesn't change that...only Vernon can
Singletary can motivate Vernon into probowlers, can't he?

Originally posted by danimal:
5. Maybe we are tuning into different games...but the Niners Defense I see is GOOD...not Great. Maybe they could be great, but the O and their 3 and out Smash mouth rock em sock em new attitude on O.....will put them in very bad positions
Wanna hear what singletary can do again?

Damn!!!, you are really a pain in the ass!!!!!

You wouldn't feel that way if you admire Singletary.
sounds reasonable to me. My only hope is that our D can contain both the Tards and Hawks. If we can do that, we'll be in good shape. If not, our O does not match up to theirs so we'll get burnt.
1. Seahawks 10-6
2. Arizona 9-7
3. 49ers 8-8
4. Rams 4-12
Bull, no way are the Seahawks going from a 4-12 season to winning the west. I dont care how many injuries they had.
Clayton is a weenie. The guy has never played a game in his whole life. He looks like Mr Peabody.

I am glad that we will still play the games anyway and not just take Clayton's word for it.
  • yoda76
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Is it just me, or does it seem like a lot of NFL writers don't seem to think that losing Holmgren is a big deal at all.

Yes getting Hasselback...back.. is huge. But an aging QB coming off a back injury, a great LT coming off microfracture surgery protecting that QB's blind side. No running game whatsoever to protect that QB from having to throw all the time. Add to that Jim Mora Jr. is now their HC.(Huge loss there)

The underdog role is shaping up great for us. Playoffs here we come!
Originally posted by Shorteous:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Once again it comes back to Qb and the Niners have the worst Qb in the division. Clayton's opinion isn't crazy or anything just his opinion. If you look at Seattle and don't' think they had a monster off season and will be much better b/c of the retrun of a healthy Hassleback then you are tripping. Funny how folks say Marvel smith is a major improvement though he's coming off injury. But Hassleback and the Seattle WR's will struggle b/c they are coming off injury. Can't have it both ways. Niners could finish 3rd or they could win the division imo it's wide open.

They defiantly made some good upgrades, but the coach is Mora Jr and Greg Knapp and once again that makes all the difference in the world. When it comes down to QB play, it is true that we probably have the worse rated QB's in the division but lets remember what wins championships....DEFENSE. Great example would be the Saints and Bronco's last season. I'm just saying with some average QB play we could be a playoff contender if the rest of the team steps up and our coaches execute the type of game plans they did late last year.

I agree about there coaching staff but it's all wait and see game. And they need ore than an average qb to win a super bowl. You need offense unless you are the old Ravens
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by Shorteous:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Once again it comes back to Qb and the Niners have the worst Qb in the division. Clayton's opinion isn't crazy or anything just his opinion. If you look at Seattle and don't' think they had a monster off season and will be much better b/c of the retrun of a healthy Hassleback then you are tripping. Funny how folks say Marvel smith is a major improvement though he's coming off injury. But Hassleback and the Seattle WR's will struggle b/c they are coming off injury. Can't have it both ways. Niners could finish 3rd or they could win the division imo it's wide open.

They defiantly made some good upgrades, but the coach is Mora Jr and Greg Knapp and once again that makes all the difference in the world. When it comes down to QB play, it is true that we probably have the worse rated QB's in the division but lets remember what wins championships....DEFENSE. Great example would be the Saints and Bronco's last season. I'm just saying with some average QB play we could be a playoff contender if the rest of the team steps up and our coaches execute the type of game plans they did late last year.

I agree about there coaching staff but it's all wait and see game. And they need ore than an average qb to win a super bowl. You need offense unless you are the old Ravens

I agree unequivocally that you need more than an average QB to win the super bowl. Truthfully I would be shocked if anyteam in the West won the superbowl let alone getting there. But you can win the division with great defense and average QB play and I believe the 9ers have that ability. It'll come down to whether our new coach booms or busts.
[ Edited by Shorteous on May 19, 2009 at 9:39 AM ]
Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
eh i agree. seahawks to me are the best in the west they were just injured last season then i got cards second and us third. especaily considering we got a new offense coordinator again which i still think is NOT an upgrade over martz.

Then why is Raye employed and Martz unemployed? I know this is a little hard for some of you to grasp because it's based on a simple logic and not emotion: if Martz were as valuable as you think he is, he'd be employed now on some NFL team. If Raye were as bad as you think he is, he wouldn't be employed now on some NFL team.
Originally posted by Shorteous:
Truthfully I would be shocked if anyteam in the West won the superbowl let alone getting there.

What the hell are you even talking about? A member of our division not only made the last Superbowl, but came a play away from winning it. And, they're not even the team Clayton thinks is the best in the division. He thinks Seattle is better.... and you'd be shocked, shocked if any in our division even gets there. Dude, you're pretty easily shocked.
I think its going to be a fun season to watch. If we have a few things fall our way then we can get lucky enough to make the playoffs. I just know that Sing came in and did an admirable job. We have a veteran OC and Manusky now get to run the defense he knows and likes. Personnel isn't the ONLY aspect to improve on a team. Coaching is just as important. I think this is the best staff we have had in along time.