Rathman is really a key guy now

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by ezrider:

Quote:
Sorry Jim but nobody can make Rob a productive FB.

When I read crap like this it makes me wonder. Was the writer just trying to be a wise guy or does he really know that little? Michael Robinson is a wide receiver by trade. He's a very good one with great hands and tough to bring down in space. His senior year in college his coach asked him to switch from WR to QB because they needed one. He had never played the position and risked his opportunity of being drafted as a WR for the good of the team.

Did he piss and moan? NO. He learned the position, went 11-1, threw 17 TD passes and ran for 8 more, won the Big 10 and Orange Bowls, and was named Big 10 Offensive Player of the Year. At QB, a position he had never played before.

He comes to the Niners begging to be given a chance to play QB. Nolan says he's going to make him into a running back, another position he has never played. Nolan kept him most of the time on special teams and when we needed a backup RB, used Hicks and rarely ever gave Robby a chance.

He made some great plays in the few chances he was given, and now may be both the backup FB, and our wildcat QB, as well as an addition option as a receiving RB. We don't know if he's a good RB or FB or not because we have never seen him being given a real opportunity. We do know he's one of the hardest hitters on the field. He knocked Brian Dawkins cold and did the same thing to a kid in college. That's way beyond just running over players and Robby hits like Ronnie Lott when he tackles on special teams.

Michael has shown flashes of brilliance when he has had very limited opportunities. This kid is talented:

Here he is catching a pass from Hill with only 52 seconds remaining in the game against the Rams. He has great hands and is an outstanding receiver.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80c912bd

Here he picks up 20 yards up the middle against Atlanta:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d803ebcdf


Here he is laying out badass Brian Dawkins while scoring a TD:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d803ebcdf


This one shows his HEART. as he picks up 20 yards with a swing pass and breaks 5 tackles. MRob would be like Ronnie Lott if he played defense. The man HITS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcCyY6tub1Y


My point is that he's a great athlete than was mishandled by Nolan and that will now be given the opportunity to develop by Jimmy Raye. Keep your personal dislikes in the drawer and judge him by his performance.

Huh? Michael Robinson is a WR by trade? Because he played a little in the slot in college? He spent some time splitting between QB, HB, and slot receiver one season - but then started splitting time mostly between HB and QB, before moving to QB almost exclusively. He was an athletic player with sub-par accuracy who transitioned to RB in the pros. If he was a WR "by trade", he would have been moved back there.

Oh and just because the Dolphins had some success with the Wildcat, doesn't mean EVERY team in the league is going to run it or needs a Wildcat QB on roster. If that was the case, Pat White probably would have been drafted by a team other than the Dolphins.

Yeah, I am also getting sick and tired of people referring to the wildcat formation like it's a staple in every offense, when in reality, it is used rarely in comparison and many teams ignore the wildcat completely. Have we EVER run a play in Wildcat in the last 5 years? I can't remember once, but then again I have not watched every game.

jimbagg......Ninefan56......ezrider...... you all have made some good points. I can easily see Rathman being the right coach to develop the young talent and help Mrob improve and finally use his kill set.

Nice try. He was a wide receiver his junior year but was forced to fill in at both QB and RB since his team was so short of quality players. It was a losing team until he played QB his senior season and led them to the Big 10 and Orange Bowl titles.

His college career included passing for over 3500 yards and 20 TDs with a 114.6 passer rating. He ran for over 1600 yards and 20 TDs with a 4.4 avg.

The Niners will use the Wildcat on occasion and Michael will be running it, like it or not. I am simply saying that this guy has overachieved at every position he has played. He puts the team before his own self interest. It's a shame that Nolan mismanaged him. Singletary is wiser. He may well use him the same way Walsh used to use Harry Sydney. Rathman played with Harry.

IMO he would make an ideal safety. He has great hands, decent 4.5 speed, and hits like a mule. This guy has so much talent there is no way we would release him.

You are so right, Rathman is an important piece of this puzzle. From a fundemental stand point, he played and coached the skills of the game that can fit any system. He played with the skills of not fumbling, running with his nose low to the ground blasting linebackers, blocking DEs from hitting the qb, and added another dimension-catching the ball out of the backfield and loving his team. His coaching experiences have been the same fundementally sound hard nosed football. Gotta love the man.

Originally posted by jimbagg:
Some months ago, everyone seemed to approve the hiring of Tom Rathman as RB coach, and rightly so.

In light of recent events, it appears that Rathman's role has become very important, early on.

Using a high draft pick on RB Glen Coffee and the signing of UDFA RB Kory Sheets, after an extensive background review by the team, gives Rathman two raw pupils to get up to NFL-speed. Don't know about you, but I can't think of a better "pro" for that job. By all accounts, Coffee is very coachable, a veritable sponge. And while Sheets has had his differences with coaches at Purdue, I don't see Rathman having any problem getting and keeping Sheets attention. The two rookies (and Niner fans) are really fortunate to have Rathman as their position coach
.
Also, other than re-signing FA FB Moran Norris, it seems significant to me that the club has NOT signed a back-up FA FB or a taken a young FB in the draft or UDFA. Maybe I am wrong, but that tells me that the club sees Rathman as the guy who can finally develop Michael Robinson at the FB position. Think about it. Robinson has many of the skills that Rathman had as a FB: high football intelligence, toughness, respect of the other players, excellent hands, a willingness and strong execution in pass protection, a willingness to slam inside, as either a lead blocker or ball carrier, a no-frills approach to the game. If Rathman can develop Robinson to play with his head up in order to find his target in leading the run (as he clearly does on his ST assignments), the club could well have found its long-term FB, who suits the type of ball control offense that the HC wants. Seems to me that Rathman is the key to really tapping into Robinson's talent.

I'm really excited to see Rathman work with these 3 young players.

I have been thinking some of the same things, particularly the bit about MRob, the additions to this coaching staff are huge as are the subtraction! the firing of Warhop and Harris looms large over this next season! GO NINERS!!!!!

Quote:
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Robinson is close to being cut. The backfield is very crowded and he's a #RB at best. He's still on the team because he's the ST captain, but we just signed Marques Harris, who is also very productive on STs.

IMO, a 3-4 team should have to keep guys around solely for ST, especially with so many LBs on the roster. As much as I like Robinson, I think he's just taking up space on the roster.

You're supposed to be a veteran. THINK! The problem with many of the members here is they have no clue about the management of a team. With only 53 players allowed, a guy that can play several positions very well is VERY IMPORTANT to the team owners. Need a backup FB? Do you carry a guy just for that position like Keasey or pencil in Robinson? Need a backup WR? Do we carry 6 or pencil in MRob as the 6th? Same thing at RB.

By keeping Robinson as a jack of all trades, we can drop 2 or 3 fringe offensive players and load up on pass rushers, secondary personnel, etc. for the defense. Robinson is not only our best special teams player and captain, his ability to fill in saves our franchise millions and gives Singletary much more flexibility with his roster. It's much more than many fans realize. Anyone that says Clayton will stay on this team before Robinson is plainly clueless.

Yeah, I am also getting sick and tired of people referring to the wildcat formation like it's a staple in every offense, when in reality, it is used rarely in comparison and many teams ignore the wildcat completely. Have we EVER run a play in Wildcat in the last 5 years? I can't remember once, but then again I have not watched every game.
Yes we ran it a little last season, as youth coach I was an offensive coordinator on a team that ran a "Wildcat" or as we called it "Single wing" MRob would be perfectly suited to the Wing as a Blocking back, the motion guy in Miami's Wildcat. The blocking back was the forerunner to the modern quarter back!

With an unbalanced line the weak-side tackle is an eligible receiver, called the short end. VD would work well there, next on the line would be the short guard, then the Snapper(not in the center of the O-line so not called the center) followed by an long guard than an inside tackle and an outside tackle, the line is capped with anther TE, (the long end) Walker is a little small for this but has the hands. you then need a Wing back and a flanker on the strong side of the line, Gore would take the snap as the tail back.

Miami puts a QB out as Flanker, but that weakens the formation Battle would be an ideal flanker, he can block, catch and throw well.
When Miami played the Ravens Baltimore laid out Miami's QB every time, Miami quickly stopped running the formation!


The answer I guess is yes we tide the Wildcat last year and yes Mrob could do well in it! Oh and Yes the Wildcat could be the staple of an Offense, the only way to stop it is to put 9-10 men in the box and blitz the run gaps, an experienced "Single wing" coach will then go to the short passing game to witch ever end is open! Single wing offense dominated football for 50 years! Until defenses got good at stopping it and the "pro set" or "Tee" formation was invented, modern defenses are designed and trained to stop the "Pro-set" making it a big advantage to run the "Single wing" again, opposing coaches don't know what to do to stop it, as a youth coach we won A LOT of games we had no business wining just because the other team was confused.

Opposing coaches would say that we ran a "Gimmick" offense and if we ran a "real" offense they would have won! The opposing coaches would say 'Sure it works here but you would never see it in the Pros" I loved every bit of last season watching all these pro coaches running our "Gimmick" offense!

I am currently working on bringing the single wing to a high school team in my area, I will be running a skills camp this summer and hope to be on a staff again soon.

I can't imagine that they WOULDN'T try Robinson at fullback. Look at the guy. To me, these days he looks more like a fullback than any other position.

Originally posted by ezrider:
Nice try. He was a wide receiver his junior year but was forced to fill in at both QB and RB since his team was so short of quality players. It was a losing team until he played QB his senior season and led them to the Big 10 and Orange Bowl titles.

His college career included passing for over 3500 yards and 20 TDs with a 114.6 passer rating. He ran for over 1600 yards and 20 TDs with a 4.4 avg.

The Niners will use the Wildcat on occasion and Michael will be running it, like it or not. I am simply saying that this guy has overachieved at every position he has played. He puts the team before his own self interest. It's a shame that Nolan mismanaged him. Singletary is wiser. He may well use him the same way Walsh used to use Harry Sydney. Rathman played with Harry.

IMO he would make an ideal safety. He has great hands, decent 4.5 speed, and hits like a mule. This guy has so much talent there is no way we would release him.

Ok I think you just made my point for me. You said he was a WR "by trade", and was forced to change. Then say he was a WR his Junior years, but then had to fill in at other positions. So I assume by this you are saying he was a WR his Freshman and Sophmore seasons? Then you give his college stats..."PASSING for over 3500 yards, 20 TD's with a 114.6 passer rating - RUSHING for over 1600 yards with a 4.4 avg. Ok, if he was such a great WR then how many CATCHES did he have? Receiving yards? Receiving TD's?

I saw in another post you mentioned that the 49ers would only have to keep 5 WR's plus Robinson, because he could fill in if needed. Once again, Robinson is an NFL RB. He has not been put in at WR, and never will be.

It's like calling Ricky Watters a WR because he lined up at flanker sometimes at Notre Dame. He also lined up in the slot a little bit with the 49ers. He was faster than Robinson, with better receiving skills...and he was still just a "RB" too.

Robinson played WR part time in 2004 with 33 receptions for 435 yards and 3 TDs. That doesn't matter. You obviously are not a person who is adept at analyzing a player's talents, much like Nolan.

Robinson will make this team. I have $100 to back that up. Put up your $100 that he won't so I can place that on the Niners to win the NFC (13:1). To win the Super Bowl, the odds are 50-1.

Originally posted by ezrider:
Robinson played WR part time in 2004 with 33 receptions for 435 yards and 3 TDs. That doesn't matter. You obviously are not a person who is adept at analyzing a player's talents, much like Nolan.

Robinson will make this team. I have $100 to back that up. Put up your $100 that he won't so I can place that on the Niners to win the NFC (13:1). To win the Super Bowl, the odds are 50-1.

MRob will make the team as something. He's too talented and too much of a team player to give up. As a receiver, watch his grab over McIntosh in the Redskins game, reminiscent of VD's catch against the cardinals. Not saying that he will be a star receiver but he's too good at too many different things to cut him.

I would really love to see them give MRob a shot at safety. He's a brutal tackler with great hands and 4.5 speed. We've seen him knock guys cold with the ball in his hands, I'd love to see him tackle with a full head of speed. Shades of Ronnie Lott, only much bigger.

I love what Rathman is going to bring to our ccoaching staff. He will get the maximum production out of his pupils. I expect Gore to have a great year under Rathman's tutilige and Raye's play calling. Coffee will also blossom under Rathman because he will be taught what it takes to be a NFL player. We will have a 1 2 punch that we will be pleased to watch on Sundays.

I was exremely pleased when we make this hiring. I can't wait for this year to start.

Originally posted by 49123:

lol is that Rachal and Brooks?

Originally posted by jimbagg:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Sorry Jim but nobody can make Rob a productive FB.

You may be right, but I respectfully disagree. Robinson is extremely effective on ST, when he is not carrying the ball, and he is a very effective receiver (when he is not "carrying" the ball, but looking it into his hands and adding YAC). His ONLY shortcoming has been dropping his head and not using good vision or running instincts, when called-upon to carry the ball in short yardage situations.

In the Raye offense, I don't see the FB as a frequent ball carrier, even in short yardage. Gore or Coffee are going to carry the rock in short yardage. The FB's primary job will be to (a) lead block esp at the 2nd level (LB or Safety or CB), (b) pass protect and (c) be a hot receiver in the flat. Robinson is already very good at (b) and (c). If Robinson can cut through the blocking to be such an effective cover man on ST and also effective in lining-up his guy as a blocker on ST, it seems to me that Rathman can also tune him up, into an effective lead blocker from the FB position.

Why would you be so skeptical of Rathman tailoring Robinson for the Niners' FB job?

In that sense I would agree with you. I think he can be very efective catching balls otu of the backfield, but i'm just not sure how much of that will be in this offesne. I was thinking in more of the way of just getting his pads down low and taking on defenders and opening up holes for Gore. And sorry jim comparing cutting through blocks on special teams and cutting through big lineman when guys are set and aren't flying around and are keying on you on run downs is totally different.