What do you think Greg Williams's punishment should be?

Originally posted by HessianDud:

not sure there has been a proven correlation to the bounties and illegal hits, except in the instance of Favre in the NFCCG.

IMO, the money they offered was beside the point, from the players point of view. 10,000 for them is a friendly wager, like you and your friends betting 10 bucks on something. The big deal about the money is that it violates the salary cap structure.

I confess I hadn't though about it from that viewpoint. Interesting.

I expect the bulk of this issue to dropped on Greg Williams. He'll likely face a one year ban, and a fine. New Orleans will probably have to forfeit some draft picks and Payton, his agent, the GM, and the owner will likely face fines as well. So no substantial punishment, but enough to make the bad publicity go away.

PLAYER REACTION - I have been surprised by the subdued reaction of the players - Favre and Tomlinson, for example, aren't very upset about it, saying its part of the league.

I think we need to "split hairs" here a little.

#1 -- IF the bounty system was meant as a clean hit that knocks someone out of the game because of its simple physicality, then I don't have that much problem with it.

#2 -- BUT, if it was meant to encourage late hits, or disabling hits (for example to the knees, or helmet-to-helmet stuff) then it is truly a malicious system that needs to be severely punished.

#3 - The salary cap issue is a NON-issue because the players themselves were reportedly contributing to the pool, and maybe coaches. So essentially, didn't change the amount the clubs were paying players. Even it did, the amounts are so small it could hardly be considered to attract players in FA.

#4 - STATS - has there been any stats to show that more players were injured by the Saints that in other games?? Or were the Saints a more penalized team for late or illegal hits??

If there haven't been injuries caused or linked to the bounty system, its could be argued the the bounty system was more of an ongoing game that wasn't really taken seriously by the players - clearly didn't motivate anyone.

Originally posted by HearstFan:
PLAYER REACTION - I have been surprised by the subdued reaction of the players - Favre and Tomlinson, for example, aren't very upset about it, saying its part of the league.

I think we need to "split hairs" here a little.

#1 -- IF the bounty system was meant as a clean hit that knocks someone out of the game because of its simple physicality, then I don't have that much problem with it.

#2 -- BUT, if it was meant to encourage late hits, or disabling hits (for example to the knees, or helmet-to-helmet stuff) then it is truly a malicious system that needs to be severely punished.

#3 - The salary cap issue is a NON-issue because the players themselves were reportedly contributing to the pool, and maybe coaches. So essentially, didn't change the amount the clubs were paying players. Even it did, the amounts are so small it could hardly be considered to attract players in FA.

#4 - STATS - has there been any stats to show that more players were injured by the Saints that in other games?? Or were the Saints a more penalized team for late or illegal hits??

If there haven't been injuries caused or linked to the bounty system, its could be argued the the bounty system was more of an ongoing game that wasn't really taken seriously by the players - clearly didn't motivate anyone.

If Bret had, had his career ended 6 years early by a bounty hit that was proven then I bet he would be singing a different tune. If Manning's neck injury was caused by a malicious hit (as Dungy suggested) I bet he feels differently about the matter then Favre does.

Originally posted by HearstFan:
PLAYER REACTION - I have been surprised by the subdued reaction of the players - Favre and Tomlinson, for example, aren't very upset about it, saying its part of the league.

I think we need to "split hairs" here a little.

#1 -- IF the bounty system was meant as a clean hit that knocks someone out of the game because of its simple physicality, then I don't have that much problem with it.

#2 -- BUT, if it was meant to encourage late hits, or disabling hits (for example to the knees, or helmet-to-helmet stuff) then it is truly a malicious system that needs to be severely punished.

#3 - The salary cap issue is a NON-issue because the players themselves were reportedly contributing to the pool, and maybe coaches. So essentially, didn't change the amount the clubs were paying players. Even it did, the amounts are so small it could hardly be considered to attract players in FA.

#4 - STATS - has there been any stats to show that more players were injured by the Saints that in other games?? Or were the Saints a more penalized team for late or illegal hits??

If there haven't been injuries caused or linked to the bounty system, its could be argued the the bounty system was more of an ongoing game that wasn't really taken seriously by the players - clearly didn't motivate anyone.

if it was just the players, maybe. But if the GM and coaches are all in on it, then it absolutely is an issue, because its the organization compensating players for their performance on the field in an "off the books" manner. Doesn't matter what the amounts were, that is in violation of the leagues policies.

Originally posted by HearstFan:
PLAYER REACTION - I have been surprised by the subdued reaction of the players - Favre and Tomlinson, for example, aren't very upset about it, saying its part of the league.

I think we need to "split hairs" here a little.

#1 -- IF the bounty system was meant as a clean hit that knocks someone out of the game because of its simple physicality, then I don't have that much problem with it.

#2 -- BUT, if it was meant to encourage late hits, or disabling hits (for example to the knees, or helmet-to-helmet stuff) then it is truly a malicious system that needs to be severely punished.

#3 - The salary cap issue is a NON-issue because the players themselves were reportedly contributing to the pool, and maybe coaches. So essentially, didn't change the amount the clubs were paying players. Even it did, the amounts are so small it could hardly be considered to attract players in FA.

#4 - STATS - has there been any stats to show that more players were injured by the Saints that in other games?? Or were the Saints a more penalized team for late or illegal hits??

If there haven't been injuries caused or linked to the bounty system, its could be argued the the bounty system was more of an ongoing game that wasn't really taken seriously by the players - clearly didn't motivate anyone.

The Saints lack of a good defense tends to show that the bounty system makes defenses worse not better. This must be because tackling technique goes out the door. This poorer play is in itself not good for the game.

it should be mandated that he must call man defense on all future games vs 49ers, given how alex smith and vernon davis ripped his man to shreds

Posted this in the "bounty" thread, but Clark Judge thinks 1 year ban for Williams, 1/2 a year ban for Payton and possible loss of draft picks.

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
The Saints lack of a good defense tends to show that the bounty system makes defenses worse not better. This must be because tackling technique goes out the door. This poorer play is in itself not good for the game.

Interesting point - Williams defenses have been known as disruptive, but not as shut-down.

death penalty

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Posted this in the "bounty" thread, but Clark Judge thinks 1 year ban for Williams, 1/2 a year ban for Payton and possible loss of draft picks.

Unless they hit them with the draft picks it will be a huge let off for the Saints. Hurts the Rams more.

wait, being on the Rams staff wasnt his punishment?

Originally posted by Niners99:

wait, being on the Rams staff wasnt his punishment?

LOL

If this was the first violation, I would say suspend Williams for a year but he's been literally doing this in a systemic fashion for a decade or more. You can't just suspend the guy and think it will make things better. If anyone deserves a lifetime ban, its Williams, and banning him is an easy/cheap way for Goodell to make his point.

Who the f**k is Gregg Williams? Who cares about this guy in a broad sense? Think anyone will miss his ass? Ban him for good, and every other coach around the league will do everything possible to disassociate themselves from anything this questionable. Banning Gregg Williams is not akin to banning Drew Brees or Tom Brady. Nobody in football will miss Gregg f'ing Williams. Suspend Payton, fine him, the Saints, suspend some players, nab some draft picks, and this problem becomes past-tense.