Conversation on Sunday, Alex Smith vs. Aaron Rodgers

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by niner4life21:
I find it funny how people assume that if Rodgers was in Alex's situation for the past 6 years, he'd automatically have had a bad career.

You guys make it seem like the QB position is not very important.

Maybe teams should stop drafting QBs in the 1st round. I mean, whats the point? All you need to do is find a scrub like Alex and put him in a good situation and expect him to flourish. Right?

wtf kind of logic is that?

Alex has never been in a good situation in his career. how do you know he wouldnt flourish in a good situations. how many QB's dont look good in a good situations?

if you can find me proof that a QB can be great with awful coaching, OL, and WR's, go right ahead. there hasnt been 1 occurrence in NFL history, but if you want to hang your hat on that theory, so be it.

the fact that some people dont see how GB is a quality run franchise that developed Rodgers really well, and SF is a horribly ran franchise that cant develop a QB to save their lives, is amazing to me.

So you think that it doesn't have anything to do with HOW GOOD THE QB IS HIMSELF? You just think that you can plug a QB into a good situation and expect him to succeed. the qb is the most important position in all of sports, IMO. You guys make it seem like the team and the coaches define how good a QB is.

How good would the Colts be w/o Manning? pats w/o Brady?

And whats this argument with Alex having a bad O-Line? The most sacks he has taken in a season is 35. I know our line hasn't been good at all for all these years, but the QB hasn't helped them at all by holding the ball for so long. I'll say that it has to with lack of QB play and also a lack of consistent line play.

Quote:
NINERS99
"Alex Smith couldve been better with better opportunities. if the ownership had hired better football people, they wouldve hired better coaches, who wouldve made better personnel choices. "

if the 9ers hired better "football people"..better coaches....if this happened, Alex wouldn't have lasted this long. But since we had people like Nolan who doesn't understand the QB position, he was making the exact same Alex excuses instead of moving on....same thing with Singletary.

a better coach would've moved on from Alex sooner.......so yes, there is a chance that it was beneficial that Alex had these types of Coaches...because it gave him a longer leash to turn things around.....yall can say what yall want, but the team has gone out of its way to make Alex's job easier....from adding players, to keeping coaches we shouldn't have kept around...JUST so Alex would have the same type of playbook two years in a row.....we kept/moved Holster to OC after Norv left, FOR ALEX......we kept Raye around FOR ALEX.

I have seen enough GB games to get a feel for Rodger's style of play. While not taking anything away from him, I continue to be struck by how relaxed he seems in the pocket, and part of the reason is that his OL usually gives him enormous time to wait and throw. He also has super receivers in Driver, Jennings and Nelson.

In contrast, Alex has had to play with the likes of Hostler and Raye as his OC, where opposing defensive players boasted that they knew in advance what play the 49ers would call based on down, distance, personnel packages and formations. Time and time again, Alex was put in 3rd and long situations, and he was usually forced to throw quickly, before deep routes could develop, because of rushers bearing down on him. After a steady diet of facing that over his years here, how could it not affect his personality, confidence and his manner of play? Of course, he is going to be more uncertain, more erratic. After all this, he does need to be "re-built." He may need to go through a "rehab" program with some other team.

I would like to see it done here, under the new regime, but it won't happen.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Aaron Rodgers OWNED the Falcons today. Jeez if we had picked him instead of Alex "the bust" Smith, this would be a whole different franchise right now. If I ever meet Smith, I'm going to knock his teeth out for wasting 6 years of our time.

come on Shaj, youre teach at a college. you should have some common sense.

Alex Smith failed because our franchise is inept. Aaron Rodgers succeeded because his franchise is elite.

Aaron Rodgers wouldve sucked for us. when youre thrust into playing right off the bat with no OL, no WR, horrible coaching, a horrible front office building the team around you, and multiple injuries occurring, ANYONE wouldve sucked. ANYONE! Peyton Manning. Tom Brady. Drew Brees. etc, etc, etc.

If this Was true the packers could of just signed you to be their qb and save on all the salary and draft pick. The system is part of the success, but the talent of the qb is what makes any system look good. Remember last year Rodgers was sacked a ton of times. And he had a good year. Imagine Rodgers with a great offensive line. It's scary. Smith even with a great offensive line will still be an average qb. His decision making , accuracy and arm are perfect for a back up qb.

im sick of the entire 49er fanbase being so ignorant about this. Aaron Rodgers got to stand on the sideline with a clipboard and learn from Brett Favre for 3 years in GB, and he was on a team that knows how to win from the top down. they have an excellent front office and excellent coaching. he was developed properly.

and 3 years after learning the SAME offense with the same coaching staff, he stepped in and had pass catchers like Donald Driver and Greg Jennings at his disposal.

Alex Smith was thrown onto the field in week 2 of his rookie season, where he was plastered into the ground every snap he took. the OL was bottom 5, the pass catchers were bottom 5, the coaching was bottom 5, and his OC's came and left every single year. he got beat up, he got injured, and was booed off the field regardless of whether the busted play was his fault or not.

their situations were as different as night and day. its extremely ignorant to say "we shoulda picked Rodgers!! look how good hes doing!".

situation is a huge part of the battle for a QB. if hes in a good system with good coaching, a good supporting cast, and with a team that knows how to maintain a good system, hes going to do MUCH better than if he was with a train wreck like the 49ers have been.

this board turned me into an Alex Smith fan, simply because of the level of ignorance about his play, and lack of blame towards all the other garbage players on this team was ridiculous. the OL would get spun around and pushed over, and Smith would get driven into the grass, and the whole fanbase is booing smith like he shouldve somehow made a great play.

whoever the 49ers picked in 2005 was doomed from the start, and whoever fell to a quality franchise with QB developing ability had it good. Smith lost, Rodgers won.

Well, if we were a Rams fan and Sam Bradford threw 1 TD and 11 INT's this year and stunk it up for years to come, we'd have no shortage of excuses, right? Drunk as a personnel director, he came from a non-pro offense and we threw him to the wolves, no-name first time coach, worst team in the NFL last year, and on and on.

If Matt Ryan came in and stunk it up like Alex, would be easy to explain too. Bobby Petrino ran out of town and hung them dry and nobody wanted to work for the falcons, Vick f'd up ruined the team and their morale, 3rd worst team in the NFL (based on draft pick), etc etc.

But guess what, these QBs came in and lit it up and are still lighting it up. Excuses are for losers, and that's what Smith made this franchise, NOT the other way around. Nolan and Scotty would both be here if Rodgers were selected (and if Scotty didn't have personal problems).

lol come on Shaj. youre in denial about how terrible this organization is ran. listen to yourself. you think that Alex Smith is just so terrible that he brought the whole franchise down with him, and wed be winners right now with Mike Nolan if we had Aaron Rodgers?

Youre kidding yourself. Aaron Rodgers wouldve fell on his face here as well. the 49ers of this decade have been a QB graveyard. find me a team with a bad OL, mediocre pass catchers, and that changes their offensive playbook every season who has a great QB. find me one team.

forget Alex Smith. how about Manning, Brady, Brees, Big Ben, Rodgers, Flacco, Ryan, pick anyone you want. stick them on the Niners from 2005 through 2010. No OL, the set of pass catchers weve had, change the playbook every season, and throw in some major injuries. this fanbase is running every one of those guys i listed out of town for sucking.

its a mentality. most of this fanbase was spoiled with Montana and Young. even Jeff Garcia was a pro bowl caliber QB but got little respect here. the entire system was a mess from day 1 of the Alex Smith era. the ownership had no idea what it was doing. they didnt hire good decision makers. they didnt know anything about football. they hired a poor coach who hired a poor GM, they promoted another poor coach, they assembled a poor offensive line, a poor receiver corps, and kept firing and re-hiring new offensive coordinators because they couldnt make a good hire.

Alex Smith was given 0% chance to succeed here. he was doomed from the start. and ANY QB in the NFL wouldve had the same fate under this disaster that was the last 6 seasons.

I fully understand that Alex isnt a superstar QB, and he made alot of mistakes. he does deserve blame, but all the circumstances ive listed MUST be recognized if you want to look at it from a common sense perspective.

In the NFL your ability can be relative to who you have around you. great players might just be good in bad situations. terrible players might be elevated to decent players in good situations. would Tom Brady be a HOFer without Bill Belichick? maybe, maybe not. would most of the Patriots team be considered mediocre football players without Belichick? probably. yet theyre the best team in the NFL collectively.

Alex Smith couldve been better with better opportunities. if the ownership had hired better football people, they wouldve hired better coaches, who wouldve made better personnel choices. you dont think Smith wouldve looked a little better with an OL like the Colts or Jets? of course he would. hed actually have time to look around and throw. Alex was always very solid when he had time to throw. he just hardly got those chances. he spent half his career on his back.

what if he had gotten Greg Jennings and Donald Driver as his WR instead of Arnaz Battle and Josh Morgan? you think that wouldve helped a little? an OL who can block and veteran WR's who could catch? your QB situation is only as good as the benefits you provide for him.

Harbaugh is going to develop a QB, but itll only translate into winning if he can built up a solid OL and get some guys to catch the passes. maybe Crabtree is one of those guys, maybe he isnt. the OL looks to have a bright future at the moment. we'll have to wait and see.

Originally posted by excelsior:
I have seen enough GB games to get a feel for Rodger's style of play. While not taking anything away from him, I continue to be struck by how relaxed he seems in the pocket, and part of the reason is that his OL usually gives him enormous time to wait and throw. He also has super receivers in Driver, Jennings and Nelson.

In contrast, Alex has had to play with the likes of Hostler and Raye as his OC, where opposing defensive players boasted that they knew in advance what play the 49ers would call based on down, distance, personnel packages and formations. Time and time again, Alex was put in 3rd and long situations, and he was usually forced to throw quickly, before deep routes could develop, because of rushers bearing down on him. After a steady diet of facing that over his years here, how could it not affect his personality, confidence and his manner of play? Of course, he is going to be more uncertain, more erratic. After all this, he does need to be "re-built." He may need to go through a "rehab" program with some other team.

I would like to see it done here, under the new regime, but it won't happen.

Rodgers was the most sacked QB last season. I agree he is very relaxed, but that is despite his oline's play, not because of it.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
Let's admit, that in hindsight, we f**ked up.

Let's move on.org.

Yup. Well said.

We messed up by picking Smith and we messed up by not putting the pieces around him.

I say both sides are at fault. But for one reason or the other, a lot of people don't seem to grasp that can blame can be distributed.

-9fA

Done, over finished move on!!! This topic is pouring salt in our own wounds. Haven't we paid enough already - why keep up this crap? So we can feel sorry for ourselves?

Our terrible coaching staff would have ruined Rodgers too.

Literally nobody in the NFL even thinks about this. There is no discussion. No mention. Ever.

Only Niner fans who like raining on their own parade.

This was what...five years ago? Move on. This conversation is played out.

ZRF, you may have cause and effect mixed up. Sacks are not always caused by weak line play. They can often be caused by a QB holding onto the ball too long. It makes sense that if Rodgers is accustomed to waiting for deep routes to develop, he can sometimes be lulled into waiting too long and finally getting sacked. I think your conclusion was far too simplistically reached. Look a little deeper.

Originally posted by okdkid:
Literally nobody in the NFL even thinks about this. There is no discussion. No mention. Ever.

Only Niner fans who like raining on their own parade.

This was what...five years ago? Move on. This conversation is played out.

6

Originally posted by Esco:

Originally posted by okdkid:
Literally nobody in the NFL even thinks about this. There is no discussion. No mention. Ever.

Only Niner fans who like raining on their own parade.

This was what...five years ago? Move on. This conversation is played out.

6

And no one in the league talks about Anthony Dixon, but we do since this is a Niner forum so you'll hear about it until either Rodgers starts sucking, or until we get another QB who is equal or better.

Watching Rodgers play makes me really sad. All those busted pockets where he rolls out and fire it ACCURATELY into a WR' hands.

Smith did that 4-5 times in his career.

Why is people making excuses for this bum. If your a PRO act like one. There are 24hrs in the day study the damn playbook. And everybody says how smart he is, shouldn't he pick this up quickly. Isn't the OC on speed dial. I beleive the OC should be sick of getting calls from Alex Smith asking about plays, coverages, constant questions. But we never heard anything like that. All we heard was how many different OC's we had, how he couldn't do this and how he couldn't do that. If this has happens since day one, wouldn't you think he would be used to things being shaken up all the time I mean if things keep happening the same way get used to it. You don't go to a job and because managers keep getting changed every year you start sucking at your job cause things ain't going right. Stop making excuses and get rid of this guy. We made the wrong decision when we drafted him let's just man up and say we made a mistake move on and stop making excuses for Alex "The Bust" Smith. GO NINERS!!!!

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Quote:
NINERS99
"Alex Smith couldve been better with better opportunities. if the ownership had hired better football people, they wouldve hired better coaches, who wouldve made better personnel choices. "

if the 9ers hired better "football people"..better coaches....if this happened, Alex wouldn't have lasted this long. But since we had people like Nolan who doesn't understand the QB position, he was making the exact same Alex excuses instead of moving on....same thing with Singletary.

a better coach would've moved on from Alex sooner.......so yes, there is a chance that it was beneficial that Alex had these types of Coaches...because it gave him a longer leash to turn things around.....yall can say what yall want, but the team has gone out of its way to make Alex's job easier....from adding players, to keeping coaches we shouldn't have kept around...JUST so Alex would have the same type of playbook two years in a row.....we kept/moved Holster to OC after Norv left, FOR ALEX......we kept Raye around FOR ALEX.

Going into this season this was suppose to end all the excuses but here we are with Alex fans with if... if... if! The fact is the Alex era is over and the niners took the wrong QB in 2005. It's all irrelavant as far as how he was treated here we have to start all over bottom line!

We made the right decision. EVERYBODY had Smith graded higher. Even though Rodgers ended up being better, we made the right decision. In terms of potential, we had to take Smith. There's a reason Rodgers dropped to 25th in the draft.

End thread. Jesus christ... 6 years later and people don't have the intelligence to realize that.

Originally posted by excelsior:
ZRF, you may have cause and effect mixed up. Sacks are not always caused by weak line play. They can often be caused by a QB holding onto the ball too long. It makes sense that if Rodgers is accustomed to waiting for deep routes to develop, he can sometimes be lulled into waiting too long and finally getting sacked. I think your conclusion was far too simplistically reached. Look a little deeper.

Rodgers plays in the West Coast offense. In essence, the majority of his plays are designed for quick releases to WRs running slants or RBs out of the backfield. Why would he be waiting for deeper routes ?